24 replies to this topic

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Theres a lot of stigma against the AL, mostly from overheating and sub-par DPS, but I've gotten mine to where it works great. Hopefully this will be of some use to those who want to use an AL but also want to not die every time they do so. :3
(Hint, the trick is painting them purple.)

Though you may immediately think "Brawler" when you look it over, this is a support/guerilla mech and nothing else. If you venture away from the group or face rush, you will die. If you are cautious and play conservatively, this mech can produce 400+ damage regularly, and has superb precision fire and survivability. If you need to, it can face off against almost any size mech 1 on 1 so long as you make good use of terrain and don't make too many piloting errors. Only caustic will give you overheat trouble, and only if you fire all your weapons continuously.

I've been told that downgrading to LLs or switching to 2Srm6 would be a better choice, but here is why this is not the case. LLs (and MLs) are awful at dealing DPS to fast moving targets, and Artemis is worth more than an extra 4 srm. LPLs are amazing at coring, and Artemis adds more DPS to SRMs than any amount of spamming them at the cost of heat can. Accuracy > Spam

84.2 KMH XL260
40FP
1.4 HE (13 DHS)
304 STD armor. (All but legs maxed, legs at 31 with no survivability issues.)
Endo-Steel

RA: 2LPL
LT: 2 Srm4 + Artemis
(Remember to chain everything, or you will overheat.)

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 08 February 2013 - 10:58 PM.

[n0e]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 08 February 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

Artemis adds more DPS to SRMs ...

Because ?

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Its a good build.. I've done it close to the same but with 2 x ML instead of artemis and ER PPCs instead of LPL. I've also done the 2LL, 2SRM6, 2ML, with 2 extra HS. All variations on a theme and very effective as long as you dont let yourself become the center of attention. LPL version was my next to try

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Artemis causes an SRM salvo to deal more damage because SRMs without artemis are basically a missle shotgun that can only expect to hit with most missles at extremely close ranges. Artemis allows much more accurate fire, resulting in more missles landing for less heat and with the benefit of much greater accuracy against single subsystems, such as CT.

SRM - Artemis = Missles you paid heat and weight for will miss when you really need them not to.

A SRM12 burst without Artemis will land signifigantly less strikes and produce more heat than SRM8 + Artemis, and not be able to focus fire. It's just a big missle cloud that only lands 1/3 of the hits at any range other than really, really close.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 09 February 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Escef]

I prefer THIS.

I don't use an XL engine, but it's easier to get away with using one on a Cent (narrower torsos and better top speed than you get out of heavies and assaults).

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Centurions with 260XL engines are fantastic in my opinion, and I hope to see a lot more on the battlefield...on the enemy's side.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

In my experience, most of the other centurion pilots I encounter die quickly and provide little to the team. I'm inclined to think they are incompetent, though. Cents are a support mech, using greater mobility to protect larger mechs while providing fire support. If you go aggro with it, it will die. Just like trying to brawl with a dragon or going solo with an assault.

Learn to use it before you toss it.

[Frank the Tank]

CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, on 09 February 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

Centurions with 260XL engines are fantastic in my opinion, and I hope to see a lot more on the battlefield...on the enemy's side.

Yeah. I don't use XL in centurions unless its XL300 or above which you can only use on the CN9-D. The centurion's side torsos are very weak in close range engagements unless you are super good at using your shield. Also 80 kph is too slow to avoid LRM damage to your top half. A CN9-D with an XL300 going above 100 kph (speed tweaked) moves fast enough to out run most missiles or really spread the damage. Furthermore, all of the centurions have great zombie potential with their narrow CT with 2 energy slots it shouldn't be wasted by using XL unless you really need to go fast.

I don't think the stigma is with the AL I think it is on all medium mechs. It seems that everyone is playing either; very fast mechs, ECM mechs, or heavily armored/armed mechs. Its not that these mechs are better, its just that they are easier to pick up or require less coordination with the team.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

I can see what you're getting at with XLs being a no-no on centurions, and how 85kmh is not enough to avoid LRMs, but my experiences using this mech have been dramatically different from what you describe. Success with the centurion is completely dependant on proper piloting, and avoiding being targeted through use of terrain and LOS.

Never go after an enemy alone and always take damage to the left side. Popping out to deal damage against targets who know where you are is a huge no-no. The only way to win with the AL is to stay with your group and to actively be as opportunistic as you can. If you are letting people shoot at you just to deal damage back, you are centurioning wrong.

Never stop moving and always show your leftside profile while enemies have los, the centurion is hard to hit on the side facing as long as it is moving and at a decent range. If you do it right, you will regularly get 2+ kills and 400+ damage.

Frank the Tank, on 09 February 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

I don't think the stigma is with the AL I think it is on all medium mechs. It seems that everyone is playing either; very fast mechs, ECM mechs, or heavily armored/armed mechs. Its not that these mechs are better, its just that they are easier to pick up or require less coordination with the team.

I agree fully. I've made good use of the dragon, the cicada and the centurion. I cant think of any reason the Hunchie would be any more or less effective. Mid range mechs are for supporting larger or smaller mech groups by balancing the more extreme (Fast or thumpy) roles. Just dont expect them to have soloability.

Also, I'll be applying this build to a 4SP soon, to see if there is any performance difference.
(Hunchy hitboxes seem to be off, giving them more survivability than the AL. Maybe I'm just observing wrong.)

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 09 February 2013 - 12:51 PM.

[Frank the Tank]

TheFlyingScotsman, on 09 February 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

I can see what you're getting at with XLs being a no-no on centurions, and how 85kmh is not enough to avoid LRMs, but my experiences using this mech have been dramatically different from what you describe. Success with the centurion is completely dependant on proper piloting, and avoiding being targeted through use of terrain and LOS.

Never go after an enemy alone and always take damage to the left side. Popping out to deal damage against targets who know where you are is a huge no-no. The only way to win with the AL is to stay with your group and to actively be as opportunistic as you can. If you are letting people shoot at you just to deal damage back, you are centurioning wrong.

Never stop moving and always show your leftside profile while enemies have los, the centurion is hard to hit on the side facing as long as it is moving and at a decent range. If you do it right, you will regularly get 2+ kills and 400+ damage.

I'm not disagreeing with you on this, in fact I mean to applaud you for using a centurion; I do too and love them. I can tell you know what you're talking about: 2 SRM4+A > 2 SRM6 is a clear example of knowing the difference between paper stats and the real game play experience. I pilot exactly the same way you describe and get the similar results. However, as the poster said more XL260 centurions would be great for kills because most people don't play that way and won't bother to learn. This build might be great for pilots like you and me, but the general populace will simply read:

TheFlyingScotsman, on 08 February 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

84.2 KMH XL260
40FP
1.4 HE (13 DHS)
304 STD armor. (All but legs maxed, legs at 31 with no survivability issues.)
Endo-Steel

RA: 2LPL
LT: 2 Srm4 + Artemis
(Remember to chain everything, or you will overheat.)

They will replicate it and fail, because they don't understand it.

Even after writing:

TheFlyingScotsman, on 08 February 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

I've been told that downgrading to LLs or switching to 2Srm6 would be a better choice, but here is why this is not the case. LLs (and MLs) are awful at dealing DPS to fast moving targets, and Artemis is worth more than an extra 4 srm. LPLs are amazing at coring, and Artemis adds more DPS to SRMs than any amount of spamming them at the cost of heat can. Accuracy > Spam

The other posters linked double LL builds. As if you've never heard of them and might be interested in using them. They obviously didn't read your full post or they didn't comprehend it. My reason for warning against XL is not to help/hinder a player who understands how to use it. It is to give those players who read and replicate a chance.

As for the hunchback, in my experience; it has better forward-facing hit-boxes, where as the centurion has better side-facing hit-boxes. This makes it seem more durable in brawls, but if you get flanked you'll loose you RT real fast and be useless. I still consider the hunchback one of the harder mechs to pilot, along with the centurion and the dragon.

I do intend to give the LPL a try although I might only use one LPL and have MLs as backup

Edited by Frank the Tank, 09 February 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[Monkey Bone]

Centurions are good because they still have guns left even after a tough fight.

XL just ruins it, most people aim at your left torso as soon as they see those SRM.


My AL has 4xmpl, 2xsrm6 dhs endo std260.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Thanks for clarifying, Frank.

I agree, as a person who bothers to learn instead of finding the smashiest build and running with it, mediums in general can perform well with my efforts, but are wasted on people who want to make the least effort possible. There are a dozen strategies you have keep in mind or face being overrun and quickly ganked, especially when you don't sit in the extreme end of big or fast.


To the people who think the AL is too slow and easy to strike, I say fooey. It has one of the thinnest bodies of any mech, and 85kmh is more than enough to outrun the majority of larger mechs, and enough to counter attacking lights without getting bogged down. Also, I have no survivability issues with the XL, because I don't let people have an easy time of shooting me. It's as simple as applied situational awareness and active refacing.

[NRP]

Any good builds for a CN9-D? So far, I've tried:

XL390
2 ML
2 SSRM

This was quite an effective light hunter, as long as they didn't have ECM. But most do, so . . .

XL360
2 ML
3 SRM6 + Artemis

This seems to be a fairly effective build, so long as I just run around firing rockets up the enemy's tail pipe.

What other builds have people found effective? I tried looking for build threads but didn't find much. I wish this forum had mech-specific sub forums.

[Oni Ralas]

2ER PPC, 2 MLAS, 2 SSRM2. Std 200 engine, 15doubles, 1ton ammo. Open them up at range with ER's, soften lights with med+streak. ER's don't suffer damage degrade at close range, so don't be affraid to pull the trigger point blank. Watch your heat.

2 kills avg if you play smart, 4 if you have a newer enemy team. Look for the oportunity, strike the weak spots, manage your heat. You can't run away, so don't get that close to begin with.

[Stingz]

[Build] PPC / M.Las / SRM, solid at any range.

The 250 engine means getting the full 2.0 engine DHS, and enough speed to keep enemies in PPC range.

Edited by Stingz, 10 February 2013 - 07:14 PM.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Despite the many objections to XL engines, I strongly encourage all medium pilots to use them. You simply cannot afford to lose any mobility. (Mobility is far more than just speed, but speed still needs to be topped for the two smaller weight classes.)

Someone said it earlier, and it is 100% true. Slow mediums are dead mediums. Giving up top speed for a smaller engine simply because "Heavies are almost as fast and lights are twice as fast" is just about the least logical mentality I can think of. You arent much faster than the other mechs, so you want to be... slower? 85kmh isnt exactly cheetah mode, but you want your small, lightly armored support platform to go 65kmh instead because you're worried your shoulder might die?

Your whole 'mech is going to die if you don't keep your feet hot.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 10 February 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[Gorak6]

I couldn't disagree more my Centurions minus one all use standard engines for a reason, they are meant to mix it up and be able to tank. Sure 7 tons more (275 vs XL275 for arguments sake) for weapons would be nice but, they are not any good if you do not get to use them. I have often used these sorts of centurions to solo versus assaults with success. my CN9-A is a mean machine with lots of speed, armour 320 and running at ~97km/h (this helps that armour go far). plus that 7 tonnes will not really allow you to use the ballistics hard points to the full potential. I for one would rather live. Plus it is so satisfying when mechs leave you alone when they think you are dead in the water and then you pew pew them with your ML's, I remember blowing out a healthy Stalker's XL engine when I was literally a leg, a cockpit and a centre torso with no armour I bet he was pissed he left me for the other threat.

[Gorak6]

Though may put one in my AL to try to make it suitable for long range combat.

[Alistair Winter]

On a Centurion that with a max 275 engine size, I don't really see the point in the XL engine. I run my CN9-AL with an STD260. The speed difference between 260 and 275 is negligible anyway, and I have 2 LPLs in the arm and 2 MLs in the CT, so the left arm and left torso are just heatsinks. The STD engine gives me a lot of survivability.

However, for the CN9-D, which has a max 390 engine size (no idea why, when light ballistic weapons are so useless), and you can actually get some serious speed going, I can see why you'd want an XL engine.

TheFlyingScotsman, on 09 February 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

In my experience, most of the other centurion pilots I encounter die quickly and provide little to the team. I'm inclined to think they are incompetent, though. Cents are a support mech, using greater mobility to protect larger mechs while providing fire support. If you go aggro with it, it will die. Just like trying to brawl with a dragon or going solo with an assault.
Learn to use it before you toss it.

I agree with this, but only because SRMs have been nerfed into the ground. When I started playing this game, my 3xSRM6 Centurion could brawl with Assault mechs and come out on top. I wouldn't try that today.

[Hayashi]

Moved to Medium mech forums.