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@pgi: There Are Too Many Assault Mechs Per Match


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#61 FupDup

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:56 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 03 June 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Kicking every ones backside is an objective measure also. I am asking again. When you drop on a planet and face the 10th Lyran Guards, are you going to complain cause they are fielding an assault company v your Heavy Company?

If the game is set up in a way such that the assault class is the easiest and most consistent way to win, then yes you bet your buttocks that I'm going to complain about it. :)

Edited by FupDup, 03 June 2013 - 09:57 AM.


#62 BillyM

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:59 AM

How about keeping track of the number of each class being used at the time, (little counter at the top of the mechlab):

L - 25k
M - 25k
H - 50k
A - 75k

...then, put a CB bonus or subtraction on under-represented classes. Highlight each class with Green, Yellow, and Red depending on the frequency they are seen.

...so in this scenario, Lights and Mediums would be highlighted in Green, and would receive a 10% cbill and xp bonus, Heavies would be highlighted in Yellow and receive no bonus, and Assaults would be highlighted in Red, and receive a 10% cbill and xp subtraction. This could be stated in the end-of-game stats.

It is my opinion that people would instantly jump in a under-represented mech for the bonus. Boom, instant balance.

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 03 June 2013 - 09:59 AM.


#63 Aslena

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:59 AM

The biggest problem I see is the way people are equipping there mediums/heavies... when your on a medium/heavy and an atlas passes you... you did something wrong.....

#64 FupDup

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:00 AM

View PostBillyM, on 03 June 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

[color=#959595]How about keeping track of the number of each class being used at the time, (little counter at the top of the mechlab):[/color]

[color=#959595]L - 25k[/color]
[color=#959595]M - 25k[/color]
[color=#959595]H - 50k[/color]
[color=#959595]A - 75k[/color]

[color=#959595]...then, put a CB bonus or subtraction on under-represented classes. Highlight each class with Green, Yellow, and Red depending on the frequency they are seen. [/color]

[color=#959595]...so in this scenario, Lights and Mediums would be highlighted in Green, and would receive a 10% cbill and xp bonus, Heavies would be highlighted in Yellow and receive no bonus, and Assaults would be highlighted in Red, and receive a 10% cbill and xp subtraction. This could be stated in the end-of-game stats.[/color]

[color=#959595]It is my opinion that people would instantly jump in a under-represented mech for the bonus. Boom, instant balance.[/color]

[color=#959595]--billyM[/color]

Or they could just give mediums and lights more of a role to fulfill so people would drive them for funzies instead of just C-Bill farming.

#65 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:02 AM

It's not the easiest way to win. I got in a one on one brawl with a Stalker the other day. I was in my Jager (yes AC20s), I ate him up. It was my 2nd Assault kill an 3rd kill for the game. there will be times you wil have to face a team that is going to be bigger than you. You btter get used to figuring out how to beat them now before you lose the control of a planet for your faction.

#66 MaddMaxx

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:02 AM

View PostTexAss, on 01 June 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:


No every assault, except awesomes, these are much rarer.
I was just in a match with 13 assaults.... -.- talking about high alpha and low time-to-kill rates....

something along these lines:
http://s199.photobuc...irmeta.png.html

Battle time 3:41

twitch


Sounds almost "fair". What Map and how in the hell did 13 Assaults even find each other in less than 4 minutes, let me guess, one side went 8 Rambo's, attacked the enemy one by one until dead. Can't very well take out 13 poor Assault pilots all at the same time and deem it the games fault. :)

Edited by MaddMaxx, 03 June 2013 - 10:03 AM.


#67 Roughneck45

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:13 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 03 June 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

It's not the easiest way to win. I got in a one on one brawl with a Stalker the other day. I was in my Jager (yes AC20s), I ate him up. It was my 2nd Assault kill an 3rd kill for the game. there will be times you wil have to face a team that is going to be bigger than you. You btter get used to figuring out how to beat them now before you lose the control of a planet for your faction.

The point is to have a fair and balanced competitive multiplayer game, not RP battles where having a blue fist logo means you get another 250 tons for your side.

RP fights are well and good, and hopefully we will have custom lobbies so that units who want to do so can. However, the matchmaker should strive for balance at all times, not RP.

Edited by Roughneck45, 03 June 2013 - 10:13 AM.


#68 tenderloving

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:28 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 03 June 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

You btter get used to figuring out how to beat them now before you lose the control of a planet for your faction.


If this is the case this game will fail hard. I think you are in for a rude awakening when they release Community Warfare and it's not some magical RP wonderland.

PGI may make mistakes but they aren't going to scare off all of the competitive players so that a group of uber-nerds who pretend to be book characters can have their playground.

#69 Aim64C

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:34 AM

View PostRoughneck45, on 03 June 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

The point is to have a fair and balanced competitive multiplayer game, not RP battles where having a blue fist logo means you get another 250 tons for your side.

RP fights are well and good, and hopefully we will have custom lobbies so that units who want to do so can. However, the matchmaker should strive for balance at all times, not RP.


Even then - you could potentially balance that with a greater number of opponents. A pair of Jenners can really put the hurt on if the pilots are decent. I'd argue it's a geometric expansion of capability, actually - it makes it far easier to put those weapons onto the most vulnerable armor section and puts 20-30 additional heatsinks against a mech with fixed numbers.

I think the problem isn't so much in the matchmaker, but in the current mechanics (as I've already stated).

Garbage in - garbage out.

The reason the match maker is pairing so many assaults on a map is because that's all its given. Everyone wants to play their 1337 sniper turrett... made possible by no-penalty 150% HC spikes, pinpoint convergence (not necessarily -the- problem, but it's a factor to be considered in adjustment mechanics), and the fact that you can actually hit what you shoot at, now (Host state rewind... which is -not- a problem).

If you removed the option between conquest and domination - you'd probably see a lot of that go away, because those builds are only so realistic for such maps (particularly since the pace of battle has slowed way down as everyone walks in shadows of cover). But I don't see that as a real option, either.

The challenge is to make sniping a valid build but not the -only- valid build. Mediums get slaughtered. Lights kind of get by on luck and the fact that they can strike at rear armor (which as gotten very thin since most people put it on the front... where the incoming PPCs go).

Part of the solution will be more comprehensive hardpoints. The Awesome is, well, awesome because it is one of the few mechs designed to sport 3 PPCs. The Madcat Mk II was ****-your-pants scary because it packed two gauss rifles, ran at the speeds of IS heavies, had Jumpjets, a 20 missile volley, and enough medium lasers to make you think very carefully about how you were going to deal with it.

Granted - that is only possible because of clan components - but you get the idea: mechs have a sort of personality or character to them. The current hardpoint-and-critical system doesn't do much to preserve those personalities and invites very troublesome builds that were permissable in tabletop battletech... but didn't come with the same consequences (a 6 PPC stalker didn't necessarily put all of those PPCs in one spot - couldn't even try to unless it had a targetting computer equipped - which took up extra criticals and tonnage for each weapon tied into the system).

Say what you will about MechWarrior 4's hardpoint system... it was a much better way to go about mech configuration/custization than what we see, now (and would have seen if we were to go with the infinite customization possibilities in MechWarrior 3).

#70 Wolf Ender

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:57 AM

View PostAim64C, on 03 June 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

The reason the match maker is pairing so many assaults on a map is because that's all its given. Everyone wants to play their 1337 sniper turrett...


I think you are wrong about this basic premise.

IMHO it has a lot less to do with game mechanics and more to do with game-meta. There are plenty of people out there who enjoy piloting lighter, faster mechs. I think what happens is when you drop into a match where you are under-tonned if you lose, you will blame the fact that they other team had more tonnage (and of course, if you win, you will pat yourself on the back for having sooooo much skill).

If you lose 3 or 4 matches in a row and you think being out-tonned is to blame, you start pulling out your heavier mechs. Anyone who is sitting there playing for an extended amount of time is bound to have this happen to them at some point.

Even if you lost the match due to poor tactics or lack of skill, its much easier to justify your loss based on lower tonnage. Thus the meta is constantly edging towards heavier and heavier drops until it just gets ridiculous.

We need lobbies with tonnage limits.

Edited by Wolf Ender, 03 June 2013 - 10:59 AM.


#71 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:03 AM

View Posttenderloving, on 03 June 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:


If this is the case this game will fail hard. I think you are in for a rude awakening when they release Community Warfare and it's not some magical RP wonderland.

PGI may make mistakes but they aren't going to scare off all of the competitive players so that a group of uber-nerds who pretend to be book characters can have their playground.

Hm, lets see. As it is right now I am art of a Merc command. We will take contracts assault or defend planets, As a House unit I will be on specific planets as defined by the timeline I will fight the Clans as they come or I go depending if I am in the 10th LG. All these matches will be PvP.

See the Canon stryline should be PvE like it is over in Neverwinter. With PvP as the supplemental game. I came to this game cause I read it will take place during the 3050 Clan Invasion. Not cause it was an Epeen sausage fest.

#72 Wolf Ender

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:08 AM

please don't derail thread. this is not a topic about PVE, which doesn't exist in this game. If you want PVE put it in the suggestions forum.

#73 tenderloving

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:08 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 03 June 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

Hm, lets see. As it is right now I am art of a Merc command. We will take contracts assault or defend planets, As a House unit I will be on specific planets as defined by the timeline I will fight the Clans as they come or I go depending if I am in the 10th LG. All these matches will be PvP.

See the Canon stryline should be PvE like it is over in Neverwinter. With PvP as the supplemental game. I came to this game cause I read it will take place during the 3050 Clan Invasion. Not cause it was an Epeen sausage fest.


You realize you will be fighting other humans, right? These other humans will overwhelmingly be expecting balanced, engaging gameplay; they won't give a crap about the storied past of their merc unit or house. It's not an epeen sausage fest; it's normal. It is more attractive to the vast majority of the populace over having imaginary drinks in some fictional space-tavern after today's successful drop.


From the get-go PGI said there isn't any AI/PVE coming anytime soon.

Why are you even in a gameplay balance forum if your primary concern is RP? You can't have both.

Edited by tenderloving, 03 June 2013 - 11:10 AM.


#74 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:12 AM

Ok then. If the planet is guarded by the Zeta Battalion of the Wlf's Dragoons I would expect the members of that unit to all be assault pilots cause that is the make up of Zeta battalion. If I am assaulting a planet Defended by the Killer Bees I would expect the players to be dropping in Lights and fast Mediums cause that is the make up of that unit. So as a PvP game I expect to run into the types of matches we are getting now (only in random).

#75 CancR

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 11:37 AM

PGI is never going to fix this because this is exactly what Call of duty players think Mechwarrior should be.

#76 Fate 6

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 12:42 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 01 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:


A Victor hero, in July.

If it has 10ML, I will forgive PGI for everything.

#77 Roughneck45

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 12:46 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 03 June 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

Hm, lets see. As it is right now I am art of a Merc command. We will take contracts assault or defend planets, As a House unit I will be on specific planets as defined by the timeline I will fight the Clans as they come or I go depending if I am in the 10th LG. All these matches will be PvP.

See the Canon stryline should be PvE like it is over in Neverwinter. With PvP as the supplemental game. I came to this game cause I read it will take place during the 3050 Clan Invasion. Not cause it was an Epeen sausage fest.

Its not an epeen sausage fest to try and make balanced teams in multiplayer.

Currently, you are part of an online group that plays Mechwarrior. You make groups and click launch. Because you are aligned to a house, you will probably be rewarded with things that are affiliated with that flag for winning the games you play after clicking launch. The planet you fight on will most likely be randomly assigned after clicking launch.

I wish I had your imagination, because it is far more romantic and entertaining, but when it comes to gameplay and balance, lore and roleplay will always take a back seat, and it is in the best interest of the game to keep it that way.

Edited by Roughneck45, 03 June 2013 - 12:47 PM.


#78 C0VVB3LL

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 12:47 PM

View Postlockwoodx, on 01 June 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

I counter Assaults by pretending to be afk, letting my team soften them up, then picking them off. Only fools rush in.

Wise men say...

#79 NinetyProof

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 12:50 PM

View PostTexAss, on 01 June 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

How do you plan to counter this? In all of my last 50-100 matches, at least 50% of all mechs were assaults.

There is no *counter*. Assaults are just plain *more fun* then Heavies. And Heavies are just more fun the Mediums.

So there is nothing "PGI" can do ... except *force* you to pilot something other then what *you* want to pilot?

#80 Deathlike

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 01:46 PM

View PostFate 6, on 03 June 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

If it has 10ML, I will forgive PGI for everything.


It probably won't. I suggest you look @ the Victor heroes @ sarna and see what you could potentially game.

Continue the disappointment.





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