244 replies to this topic

[Mechsniper]

Accuracy penalty ? This was an absolute destruction of being able to use weaponry during a jump, period. Jumping in any one of my highlanders the shake ends about a couple of feet above the ground when you come back down after a full jump. This = completely useless. LOL@ Jade, a little of all 3 man, just a little peeved that I put all the exp and c-bills into now at the moment worthless highlanders, and read the noobies QQing on the forum about how they couldn't cope with jumpers. They would have howled and done the dying cockroach while trying to play MW4. Hopefully the wide swinging pendulum of nerf/buff will come back somewhere in the center. As I stated previously, some shake to the cockpit- yes needed. Reticle- never under any circumstance, it should shake even with the cockpit, and weapons should hit where they are aimed. M1 Abrams can make accurate shots over uneven terrain at high speeds, and guns go to the reticle point of aim in hard shaking, faster turning aircraft. Believe me though I think their cockpits shake with all that throttle.

[Teir Dasande]

Why is this not In K-Town yet? I can hear the squawking getting closer...

[Vodrin Thales]

Mechsniper, on 10 June 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Accuracy penalty ? This was an absolute destruction of being able to use weaponry during a jump, period. Jumping in any one of my highlanders the shake ends about a couple of feet above the ground when you come back down after a full jump. This = completely useless. LOL@ Jade, a little of all 3 man, just a little peeved that I put all the exp and c-bills into now at the moment worthless highlanders, and read the noobies QQing on the forum about how they couldn't cope with jumpers. They would have howled and done the dying cockroach while trying to play MW4. Hopefully the wide swinging pendulum of nerf/buff will come back somewhere in the center. As I stated previously, some shake to the cockpit- yes needed. Reticle- never under any circumstance, it should shake even with the cockpit, and weapons should hit where they are aimed. M1 Abrams can make accurate shots over uneven terrain at high speeds, and guns go to the reticle point of aim in hard shaking, faster turning aircraft. Believe me though I think their cockpits shake with all that throttle.

Look, TT had a substantial accuracy penalty for jumping, and introducing it in this game made the game more enjoyable for the overwhelming majority of players in the game at all levels of skill. The last meta with jump sniping being the most prominent way of fighting was not making for an enjoyable playing experience, especially in 8 mans. When SRM's were overpowered it was more fun. The game lost a lot of players as it was, including some of the better 8 man teams. This nerf was necessary, and using MW4 as an example of how it should be when that game had some of the worst, most imbalanced multiplayer I have ever seen just illustrates your myopic point of view.

[Hotthedd]

Mechsniper, on 10 June 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Accuracy penalty ? This was an absolute destruction of being able to use weaponry during a jump, period. Jumping in any one of my highlanders the shake ends about a couple of feet above the ground when you come back down after a full jump. This = completely useless. LOL@ Jade, a little of all 3 man, just a little peeved that I put all the exp and c-bills into now at the moment worthless highlanders, and read the noobies QQing on the forum about how they couldn't cope with jumpers. They would have howled and done the dying cockroach while trying to play MW4. Hopefully the wide swinging pendulum of nerf/buff will come back somewhere in the center. As I stated previously, some shake to the cockpit- yes needed. Reticle- never under any circumstance, it should shake even with the cockpit, and weapons should hit where they are aimed. M1 Abrams can make accurate shots over uneven terrain at high speeds, and guns go to the reticle point of aim in hard shaking, faster turning aircraft. Believe me though I think their cockpits shake with all that throttle.

Can the Abrams do all of that while jumping?

Can the Abrams equip 4 times the weapons and fire all of the weapons simultaneously and have them all hit in a 1 meter by 1 meter square? Even if targeted for a fraction of a second?

You aim your reticle on a Two-dimensional screen, but expect perfect accuracy on a Three-dimensional battlefield?

Personally, I think shake is needed when running, also. Perfect accuracy should require you to be perfectly still.

[HarmAssassin]

Quote

Jumpjet "shake" just broke half the combat in this game for me.

By fixing a game-breaking mechanic. Sorry, but you're not going to get any sympathy from me on this issue. Poptarting was killing this game.

JumpJet Screen Shake is the best (some might say the only good) thing this game has done in the past 3 months).

[Mechsniper]

Can you table top D&D boys not understand that your "multiplier" was in large part to account for the added difficulty of shooting while your mech is moving through the air, and not because it is falling apart due to violent shake. You now have to account for vector of mech travel, speed of mech targeted, time of flight of projectile/ppc, terrain variation target is moving over, AND on top of everything , the movement of your mech during jump, which adds an entirely new aspect to the targeting solution. It was not because they were unable to hit anything due to being in a giant rock shaker like it is now. All of your magic dice numbers were attempts to show the improbabilities introduced by these types of variables, which are well simulated in the game. Not all real life mimicking, but pretty darn good for a game. Putting in things such as artificial reticle shake that is only dumbing down a player that has learned to compensate for all the above is a move to the lowest common denominator. By the way, Gyro's work in planes, boats, missiles and ground vehicles, what is your reasoning that they wouldn't work in a mech there slick? MW4 had as large a problem with hackers, as it did with the jump sniping mechanics. And btw rolling you all in ground based snipers will be just as easy trolls. The team sniping mechanic will still override your perceived victory. If PGI ever makes it where weapons no longer hit where aimed, many good players will tell you pound sand and take their MC and go home. At that time your core players are gone and this game goes into obscurity, this time probably for good. Be careful what you wish for. If you want to fix what is wrong, Hard point size limits are needed, so that PPC's can not go where medium lasers were meant to, nor gauss rifles where machine guns were meant to be.(Guass Cat).

Edited by Mechsniper, 10 June 2013 - 07:17 PM.

[Xmith]

LordDante, on 09 June 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

first i thought wtf in my spider ... now after 20 games i dont even notice it anymore i actually think that it added up the imersion.

Buy a Highlander with 3-4 jets and see how long it will take not to notice the shake any longer.

[Hotthedd]

Mechsniper, on 10 June 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Can you table top D&D boys not understand that your "multiplier" was in large part to account for the added difficulty of shooting while your mech is moving through the air, and not because it is falling apart due to violent shake. You now have to account for vector of mech travel, speed of mech targeted, time of flight of projectile/ppc, terrain variation target is moving over, AND on top of everything , the movement of your mech during jump, which adds an entirely new aspect to the targeting solution. It was not because they were unable to hit anything due to being in a giant rock shaker like it is now. All of your magic dice numbers were attempts to show the improbabilities introduced by these types of variables, which are well simulated in the game. Not all real life mimicking, but pretty darn good for a game. Putting in things such as artificial reticle shake that is only dumbing down a player that has learned to compensate for all the above is a move to the lowest common denominator. By the way, Gyro's work in planes, boats, missiles and ground vehicles, what is your reasoning that they wouldn't work in a mech there slick? MW4 had as large a problem with hackers, as it did with the jump sniping mechanics. And btw rolling you all in ground based snipers will be just as easy trolls. The team sniping mechanic will still override your perceived victory. If PGI ever makes it where weapons no longer hit where aimed, many good players will tell you pound sand and take their MC and go home. At that time your core players are gone and this game goes into obscurity, this time probably for good. Be careful what you wish for. If you want to fix what is wrong, Hard point size limits are needed, so that PPC's can not go where medium lasers were meant to, nor gauss rifles where machine guns were meant to be.(Guass Cat).

The thing is, it was NOT as difficult to hit while jumping and shooting as was intended in the original game. You have no idea if the simulation "multiplier" was due to shake or not, that is only your opinion.

Why do you consider pointing and clicking a mouse as enough of a difficulty to simulate piloting a 90 ton bipedal machine with rockets on its back?

Gyros ALSO worked in the Apollo Moon rocket, yet there was still shake for the Astronauts when the rockets fired.

Having all weapons converge on a single spot is breaking the game. It has made Alpha striking the default mode of playing. It actually REMOVES "skill" from the game.

[Gaan Cathal]

Mechsniper, on 10 June 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Can you table top D&D boys not understand that your "multiplier" was in large part to account for the added difficulty of shooting while your mech is moving through the air, and not because it is falling apart due to violent shake. You now have to account for vector of mech travel, speed of mech targeted, time of flight of projectile/ppc, terrain variation target is moving over, AND on top of everything , the movement of your mech during jump, which adds an entirely new aspect to the targeting solution.

Sorry mate, an additional (slow) motion vector does not make it hard to hit a slow moving large target with a turning circle. It just doesn't. Harder than when not jumping? Technically yes, but "harder than **** easy" doesn't mean "hard".

[TB Azrael]

Shinikaru, on 04 June 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

This game WAS good combat wise. Then the devs started listening to all the whiners and we get things like this retardation.

Jump sniping, "fixed". as is anything else you can do like jumping over a teammate so you can hit the enemy behind him, or just plain sighting the incoming forces under ecm.

I lost interested with this game with this one, PGI is totally clueless and their franchise is doomed to poor sales metrics with this constant misread of what mechwarrior should be about.

BY the way, JJ''s were always intended to be a small advantage in fighting, making them this combat ineffective to solve the problems of the loudest group of whiners on the forums is laughable.

Hey PGI. do me a fun favor, source up the people complaining about "pop-tarts", as in get their names and look at their game metrics, give this change 2 weeks, then check out the same players metrics. I BET THEY STILL SUCK AT THE GAME. I also bet they are complaining about some other thing that's making them loose a lot.

Maybe they should look at your metrics. The situations you describe seem to be mainly short range yet you are whining like a true poptart. If you can't hit stuff at close range then I bet it is you that sucks at the game not the other way around. Hell I rarely poptarted but did alot of what you are describing in your main post and yet I don't seem to have the mega issues you are crying about and I'm a fairly average player I would guess. Not that JJs don't need to be tweaked a bit yet.

Actually reading some of your other replies here kinda gives me the feeling you were a spoiled kid. Seems to be alot of 'take my ball and go home' type attitude.

[TB Azrael]

Victor Morson, on 09 June 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

This is a fallacy. Jump jet sniping is both a part of the canon - even being a major point in the CC-St. Ives war - and really simulated by the game as well. It's why there's a +3 firing modifier.

The current shake reflects the rules in that way. Like I said in another thread however, I would highly endorse reducing shake for lights & mediums; I think if Mediums were to take over as the only class that could be an effective poptart, I wouldn't have a problem with that. It might even cut the typical weight of games down a whole lot.

Funny I never recall that being anywhere in the older rules, mentioned once or twice in the fiction - may be in tota warfare which is fairly new. Care to site your source?

[TB Azrael]

Mechsniper, on 10 June 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Accuracy penalty ? This was an absolute destruction of being able to use weaponry during a jump, period. Jumping in any one of my highlanders the shake ends about a couple of feet above the ground when you come back down after a full jump. This = completely useless. LOL@ Jade, a little of all 3 man, just a little peeved that I put all the exp and c-bills into now at the moment worthless highlanders, and read the noobies QQing on the forum about how they couldn't cope with jumpers. They would have howled and done the dying cockroach while trying to play MW4. Hopefully the wide swinging pendulum of nerf/buff will come back somewhere in the center. As I stated previously, some shake to the cockpit- yes needed. Reticle- never under any circumstance, it should shake even with the cockpit, and weapons should hit where they are aimed. M1 Abrams can make accurate shots over uneven terrain at high speeds, and guns go to the reticle point of aim in hard shaking, faster turning aircraft. Believe me though I think their cockpits shake with all that throttle.

Seems to me now it's all the hardcore poptarts QQing. Learn a bit more of the lore before you start comparing Mech accuracy to an Abrams. And fyi poptarts in this game were way more op than in MW4 - it was way easier to cope with them due to the ability to split the team and survive the match still. Mabye if we get a MM that actually works with weights or chassis size it will be easier to split a team when needed.

Course killing hardcore poptarts can be royal fun since the majority have no skill in combat once it gets up close and personal. Flush them from their little hidey spot and watch them die.

Edited by TB Azrael, 10 June 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[Vodrin Thales]

Mechsniper, on 10 June 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Can you table top D&D boys not understand that your "multiplier" was in large part to account for the added difficulty of shooting while your mech is moving through the air, and not because it is falling apart due to violent shake. You now have to account for vector of mech travel, speed of mech targeted, time of flight of projectile/ppc, terrain variation target is moving over, AND on top of everything , the movement of your mech during jump, which adds an entirely new aspect to the targeting solution. It was not because they were unable to hit anything due to being in a giant rock shaker like it is now. All of your magic dice numbers were attempts to show the improbabilities introduced by these types of variables, which are well simulated in the game. Not all real life mimicking, but pretty darn good for a game. Putting in things such as artificial reticle shake that is only dumbing down a player that has learned to compensate for all the above is a move to the lowest common denominator. By the way, Gyro's work in planes, boats, missiles and ground vehicles, what is your reasoning that they wouldn't work in a mech there slick? MW4 had as large a problem with hackers, as it did with the jump sniping mechanics. And btw rolling you all in ground based snipers will be just as easy trolls. The team sniping mechanic will still override your perceived victory. If PGI ever makes it where weapons no longer hit where aimed, many good players will tell you pound sand and take their MC and go home. At that time your core players are gone and this game goes into obscurity, this time probably for good. Be careful what you wish for. If you want to fix what is wrong, Hard point size limits are needed, so that PPC's can not go where medium lasers were meant to, nor gauss rifles where machine guns were meant to be.(Guass Cat).

I'm against full time RNG aiming, but the JJ change was largely a good one. You can always just disengage the jets to aim normally. I'd like to see a bit less shake so those players that are sensitive to motion sickness get a bit of a brake, but the reticle shake should stay in. Hitting targets while jumping was just far too easy prior to this change, to the point that almost everyone in 8 mans was running poptart heavy teams. It needed this to allow for more variety again, and did not "dumb it down". It made jump sniping challenging again. Sure there need to be some changes to balance out PPC's and other boated energy weapons, but this was a good change.

Edited by Vodrin Thales, 11 June 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[Zabadoo]

Greatest thing since sliced white bread. The shakes were needed. The pooptarts were out of control. As for jenners and spider. They have minimal as it is. The hylanders. Wow now that's the shakes as is deserved.
No just use some real physics and make spiders and jenners topple over after doing a mid jump spin around. The momentum should have them breaking there legs if not rolling over upside down from there jack rabbit shenanigans that shouldn't be happening.

[Mycrus]

Jumpjet shake - making poptarts cry since last patch!

[MavRCK]

JJ shake was a bad implementation.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

I don't mind it much ... it has changed the way I fight in my Jenners and Spiders, but not significantly. I also bought a CTF-3D this weekend, and it's a great brawler.

Like ECM before seismic was released and the BAP upgrade, Jump Jets gave particular mechs a significant advantage in some situations. Now, that particular advantage is reduced ... especially at long range.

[One Medic Army]

Mechsniper, on 10 June 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Accuracy penalty ? This was an absolute destruction of being able to use weaponry during a jump, period. Jumping in any one of my highlanders the shake ends about a couple of feet above the ground when you come back down after a full jump. This = completely useless. LOL@ Jade, a little of all 3 man, just a little peeved that I put all the exp and c-bills into now at the moment worthless highlanders, and read the noobies QQing on the forum about how they couldn't cope with jumpers. They would have howled and done the dying cockroach while trying to play MW4. Hopefully the wide swinging pendulum of nerf/buff will come back somewhere in the center. As I stated previously, some shake to the cockpit- yes needed. Reticle- never under any circumstance, it should shake even with the cockpit, and weapons should hit where they are aimed. M1 Abrams can make accurate shots over uneven terrain at high speeds, and guns go to the reticle point of aim in hard shaking, faster turning aircraft. Believe me though I think their cockpits shake with all that throttle.

Maybe you should use more than 1 Jet...
I manage to shoot people on the way down just fine with my 3-5 jet highlanders.

[Chavette]

One Medic Army, on 10 June 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

Maybe you should use more than 1 Jet...
I manage to shoot people on the way down just fine with my 3-5 jet highlanders.

Because you play against incompetents who can't shoot a 90ton hopper in the 3-4 seconds you need to rise and fall before you take a shot.

[giganova]

Awww, no more jump-shot 360 noscopes for the 'competitive' CoD kiddies, what a cryin' shame...