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Scout Unit Idea Exchange


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#1 zraven7

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:14 AM

Alright, I know some of you out there are scouts, either pugging or for your lances. When we're actually acting as a scout, we play a very different game than everyone else. While other people are waiting to shoot, we're out there finding out where the targets are. We have to watch enemy units and try to figure out how they might be attacking.

So, lets throw some hints around. Tell each other a few idea that work, ask for some suggestions. Good scouting points, safer paths through stages, what to do when the fighting starts, these are all good points of conversation as well as anything else.


Me, I'm trying to find relatively safe points in each map, from each starting point, that offer lots of vision while leaving you relatively safe, especially if you have ECM equipped. Here's a few.

I use smurfynet's maps for reference. I'm using "Conquest" maps just for more reference points, though I'll try to keep all points relevant to Conquest and Assault.

Here's my thoughts for Alpine Peaks.

-The tallest mountain in Alpine is an excellent point from either side, (grid I9) is a viable point from either base, though is just about equidistant from each as well. You might risk running into the enemy scout while up there. Good side-specific choices are the small mountain on the G4/H4 line for Sigma, and the mountain crest on G9 for Gamma. Both give you visibility over enough of the map to see if the enemy team is coming towards "Epsilon valley" or if their likely going around along the J line. remember, though, neither of these gives visibility on E8 and E9, and that is a possible path. Just remember, it's dangerous to scout there. Be careful.

#2 mailin

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:55 AM

ASSAULT MODE NOTES:

On Alpine I feel that I9 is generally only accessible when your base is at F11. I say this because from that base, you are essentially in the bottom of a bowl. The only way the enemy can see you is to crest a line of hills, or come at you from the south, whereas you can go over the mountains along various routes. When my base is at J5, I typically move along the 5 line and turn my torso right to spot the enemy.

On Tourmaline, I typically head over to D3 no matter which base I drop at. I think that this area gives me the most opportunity to scout the enemy unseen, or make a break for it and cap the base to spread out the enemy.

Canyon Network, I am currently scouting up the right side, no matter which base I come from. So far it is working okay. If you do this, you may need to leave yourself an exit plan. Also, when scouting on this map, try to keep to the canyons and have Advanced Seismic Sensor equipped.

For Caustic Valley, either way I tend to scout up the 3 line.

River City/RC Night, if I spawn at D2, I go into or on the Citadel at D3 and spot from there. Note without ECM this is a very dangerous location.

Forest Colony and Frozen City I find that it depends on what your team is doing. If they start moving in one direction, I tend to scout in a different direction for a couple of reasons. 1) These maps are so small it’s easy to find the enemy. (At least initially). 2) I don’t want to be conspicuous, which for me means getting away from pop-tarts and lrm boats. 3) Generally this strategy leaves me open to come at the enemy from the rear, cap the base to try to separate them, or if needed cap for the win.


CONQUEST MODE NOTES:

River City/RC Night, Caustic Valley, Forest Colony (both), Canyon Network, Tourmaline Desert – I cap counterclockwise and typically only stop when all cap points are my team’s or there are too few enemies left to worry about, in which case I engage. AVOID THETA until later. Theta is a death trap early on.

Alpine Peaks – Cap either Kappa or Theta, whichever is closest to base, then either Theta or Kappa or the enemy base. I avoid Epsilon until later.

Frozen City (Both) – I tend to go for Theta first and then skirt around the edges to take the enemy base away from them. This has a tendency to leave me quite a way away from the brawl so that I can cap in relative safety, at least for a while.

Edited by mailin, 27 June 2013 - 02:32 PM.


#3 B0oN

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:04 PM

Gentlemen, you as light pilots should keep the "secret workings" of scouting to yourself, lest you lose your maybe one and only advantage against all those bigger and better armed baddies ;)

#4 mailin

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:45 PM

View PostRad Hanzo, on 06 June 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Gentlemen, you as light pilots should keep the "secret workings" of scouting to yourself, lest you lose your maybe one and only advantage against all those bigger and better armed baddies ;)


hahahahahahaha. oh that's rich. I'm not worried. You forget that assault drivers can't read. Actually I thought about this and decided, why not help out those who are struggling with piloting lights. Also, I have noticed more and more lights capping counterclockwise, which works for me, because this means that we wind up not encountering each other so much.

The other thing to be aware of is that tactics change. When everybody starts doing this, then I'll switch to something else that works.

Although this should maybe be moved to Light Guides.

#5 zraven7

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 05:55 PM

Mailin, thanks for the post, it's some great tips. However, can you give grid referenced for your Canyon advice? It's just that "right side" kinda changes based on where you start...

Also, on River City and Forest Colony, on conquest, I find that a "quick cap" on theta can be worth the risk. It's not a full cap, you just hold it til you get any amount of blue, and run. IT still gets you points, and makes the enemy have to do something about it if they want the cap lead again.

View PostRad Hanzo, on 06 June 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Gentlemen, you as light pilots should keep the "secret workings" of scouting to yourself, lest you lose your maybe one and only advantage against all those bigger and better armed baddies :)

This is something I considered, though I decided that scout pilots could use help more than secrecy. Besides, a lot of these placed, the only person who could get there in time to harass us is another scout.

A lot of tactics will be made common knowledge soon enough. This just gives scouts a place to trade ideas and talk about staying alive.

Edited by zraven7, 06 June 2013 - 05:57 PM.


#6 mailin

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:00 AM

View Postzraven7, on 06 June 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Mailin, thanks for the post, it's some great tips. However, can you give grid referenced for your Canyon advice? It's just that "right side" kinda changes based on where you start...

Also, on River City and Forest Colony, on conquest, I find that a "quick cap" on theta can be worth the risk. It's not a full cap, you just hold it til you get any amount of blue, and run. IT still gets you points, and makes the enemy have to do something about it if they want the cap lead again.




On Canyon, think of it as scouting counterclockwise. It doesn't matter which side I start from, I go to the right. Having said that I find more often than not both teams tend to go to the C4/C5 area, which so far has been the spot where the vast majority of kills have taken place. I haven't had quite enough drops on this map to feel completely secure in my scouting ability. However, I find that I still tend to be the last, or one of the last alive whether my team wins or loses. (I have a similar experience on Frozen City.) In regards to the quick cap on theta, I feel that theta on these maps is too open. I would much rather take my chances running through the city or the caves in the various maps. Let the brawlers stand in the open and get pounded, we're too smart for that and we don't have the armor to take that kind of beating. Remember a scout needs to be as stealthy as possible even without ECM. Standing in the open for any amount of time is a risk I'm not willing to take initially.

#7 YueFei

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:17 AM

I haven't run my scout mechs in awhile, but my friends and I have had good success recently on Forest Colony by taking 2 mediums across the water. We move in bounds, with one mech covering while another advances to check a corner. If it's safe, we go all the way in to threaten a cap on the enemy base, and run away if a sizable force approaches.

If the approach over the water is not safe, and there are multiple enemy heavies in the water, then we pull back to shore and work with the team to "besiege" the enemy in the water, threaten them from multiple angles of fire. Usually someone on the team will also step in to cap the enemy base, forcing them to cross the open water back towards their own base.

I've found that while medium mechs don't have a distinct *tactical* speed advantage over heavies, they do have a slight strategic speed advantage (particularly over heavies which pack on extra firepower for a bigger punch), which makes them suitable for following scouts and providing them with a safe fallback position if they need it.

Edited by YueFei, 07 June 2013 - 12:17 AM.


#8 YueFei

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 12:23 AM

For Frozen City, there have been many times when my team started in the north west base, and got rolled by a team of brawlers who crossed into the north eastern part of the city, and then attacked together through the buildings. It's super important to get a scout to watch that approach, since the enemy has to cross a piece of open ground to get in amongst those buildings. If the enemy doesn't cross that, the only other ways to get in close to brawl are through the tunnel, or the long way around via the valley running north and east. In both of those cases, you can use the bottlenecks to contain them and punish them if they try to push through, though the team *has* to know about it and form up there in time to receive the enemy charge. If you can manage that, you can contain them and go cap their base.

#9 Sam Slade

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:00 AM

As someone who both needs(when playing LRM Cat) and must destroy(when playing everything else) scouts can I offer two tidbits?

1. If you're serious about being a scout take TAG and use it. Tell your team who you're using it on, tell them if their missiles are hitting or not and try to stay hidden while you do this. Also, watch where your LRM boats are.

2. If you're carrying an ECM don't outline yourself against a background that doesn't match your mech (Spiders and Commandos are very easy to headshot). The most effective scout I've ever encountered used ECM to sit about 300 meters away from our team on our flank and TAGed targets starting with the guys in the back. It only worked because he stood in front of a rock that was the same colour as his mech(spider)... caused much rage but held his nerve and just stood their collecting assists(his colours, mainly black, matched the background excelently).

#10 mailin

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 03:33 AM

View PostSam Slade, on 07 June 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

As someone who both needs(when playing LRM Cat) and must destroy(when playing everything else) scouts can I offer two tidbits?

1. If you're serious about being a scout take TAG and use it. Tell your team who you're using it on, tell them if their missiles are hitting or not and try to stay hidden while you do this. Also, watch where your LRM boats are.

2. If you're carrying an ECM don't outline yourself against a background that doesn't match your mech (Spiders and Commandos are very easy to headshot). The most effective scout I've ever encountered used ECM to sit about 300 meters away from our team on our flank and TAGed targets starting with the guys in the back. It only worked because he stood in front of a rock that was the same colour as his mech(spider)... caused much rage but held his nerve and just stood their collecting assists(his colours, mainly black, matched the background excelently).


Excellent suggestions Sam. The comments about letting lrm boats know whether they're hitting is huge. Very often lrms are fired sight unseen, relying instead on friendlies keeping the target. All the lrm boat knows is that the targeted enemy is taking damage, but he has no idea from what. I will also let my lrm boats know when to stop firing lrms at a given target. Typically this is when the enemy is so nearly dead that I or another mech close by can finish him off. This does a couple of things. It lets the lrm boat find a new target who is not so nearly dead, but perhaps more importantly it conserves ammo. All too often an enemy dies while there is another volley en route. Another reason to let an lrm boat know when to stop is when the enemy has moved behind cover to avoid the lrms.

#11 Darwins Dog

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 10:23 AM

View Postmailin, on 06 June 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Canyon Network, I am currently scouting up the right side, no matter which base I come from. So far it is working okay. If you do this, you may need to leave yourself an exit plan. Also, when scouting on this map, try to keep to the canyons and have Advanced Seismic Sensor equipped.

View Postmailin, on 06 June 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

you may need to leave yourself an exit plan

View Postmailin, on 06 June 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

leave yourself an exit plan

Quoted as universal truth for a scout. As important as knowing where to go to look for the enemy is knowing where you will go when they do show up. You should always keep in mind the quickest and safest routes back to your friends.

#12 mailin

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:33 AM

View PostDarwins Dog, on 07 June 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

Quoted as universal truth for a scout. As important as knowing where to go to look for the enemy is knowing where you will go when they do show up. You should always keep in mind the quickest and safest routes back to your friends.

Yes indeed, but also you need to be aware of the odds of success if you run away from your friendlies as well. Doing this has the potential to stretch out the enemy forces, allowing your team mates to deal with enemy mechs in smaller groups. I find that piloting a light takes a great deal of situational awareness.

#13 zraven7

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:23 AM

View Postmailin, on 08 June 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

. I find that piloting a light takes a great deal of situational awareness.


And crazy. Don't forget the crazy.

#14 Koreanese

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 05:36 AM

Keep good distance. Even then expose very little of yourself. There people out there that can snapshoot gauss or ppc from 600meters away and have you scratching your head

#15 mailin

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 08:32 AM

View PostKoreanese, on 10 June 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Keep good distance. Even then expose very little of yourself. There people out there that can snapshoot gauss or ppc from 600meters away and have you scratching your head


I agree. This is why I equip advanced seismic sensor on all of my scouts. I don't have to necessarily see the enemy. Sometimes it's enough to know their numbers and location.





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