39 replies to this topic

[N a p e s]

I went toe to toe against a Quickdraw (5K) in my Dragon (Flame) last night. It was a pretty even fight until a couple gauss rounds hit him square in the center torso and really openned him up. We were maneuvering around one another pretty evenly but he probably could of used his jumpjets to keep me in his sights more. The resource counter got to 750 so we couldn't complete our little duel but he was in much worse shape than me.

[Satan n stuff]

Jack Starborn, on 19 June 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

How did you manage to squeeze it there?

280 XL engine, stripped down the leg armor a bit, no extra heat sinks.
Edit: I also only have 2 tons of ammo for the Gauss, but that's enough for 20 alphas meaning up to 700 damage at mid to long range total.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 19 June 2013 - 11:59 PM.

[Cervantes88]

Quickdraws are infinitely better than Dragons. Simple : their torso is nicely-tightly packed and spreads out damage quite well + big arms = good défensive torso twisting abilities = MUCH better survivability.

With a similar mobility (I don't even use jumpjets as their offensive abilities are nerfed to the ground especially when NOT poptarting from behind a hill but actually trying to fight with them), and lighter energy-heavy loadouts, it can do way better than a Dragon not because it does more damage (Dragons are actually stronger hitters), but because they survive three times where a Dragon dies in 3secs.

[Ryokens leap]

Cervantes88, on 20 June 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

Quickdraws are infinitely better than Dragons. Simple : their torso is nicely-tightly packed and spreads out damage quite well + big arms = good défensive torso twisting abilities = MUCH better survivability.

With a similar mobility (I don't even use jumpjets as their offensive abilities are nerfed to the ground especially when NOT poptarting from behind a hill but actually trying to fight with them), and lighter energy-heavy loadouts, it can do way better than a Dragon not because it does more damage (Dragons are actually stronger hitters), but because they survive three times where a Dragon dies in 3secs.

But if all the Dragon pilots switch to Quickdraws then you will have no one to blame for your poor in game performance?

[Adridos]

Well, the Quickdraw beats us in any kind of laser only build, so you should definitely rely more on the ballistic builds.

However, while they lack the massive CT we have, they are much bigger, so it is a trade off of sorts. Dragon's definitely a better XL carrier, altough even my new Quickdraw doesn't seem to have issues with it.

[N a p e s]

I caved and got the 5K last night and its a fun mech. In comparison to the Dragon (of which I have 3 mastered) I'm not sure which is really better but the option to carry ballistics keeps the Dragon interesting and lethal versus the quickdraw. I'm definitely not giving up on Dragons because of this mech. To me the Quickdraw feels like much more of an infighter using the jumpjets for maneuverability than a super fast hit and run heavy.

Basically, if you're a fan of the Dragon the Quickdraw should just make you happy to have another option for a 60 ton mech that can fill a different role but with some similar attributes.

[Ophidian]

If I'm being entirely honest, the primary reason I drive a Dragon is because I get a kick out of killing other people in an "inferior" mech.

But in any case, the Dragon and Quickdraw can be said to have different roles. As far as I can see, the Quickdraw is a rapid, close range striker that uses high mobility to outmaneuver its opponents. The Dragon works best as a mid-range high-mobility sniper that uses speed and guerrilla tactics to strike at enemies at a relative safe distance.

[AdamBaines]

Khanahar, on 18 June 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

If you're surviving as a Dragon pilot, you don't need to worry about anything. Ever.

Can you define "Surviving? :-)

[Orzorn]

I think the Quickdraw is actually less survivable than the Dragon. Its misleading when you look at its CT because it isn't as bulbous as the Dragon's, yet the mech is easily 2 meters taller, a bit wider, and honestly just way too large (its bigger than a Cataphract, a mech that's ten tons heavier). Much of its "head" actually counts as a CT, so its CT is actually huge in a vertical way, making hill-humping much, much harder.

As for people saying to use the Dragon's ballistic hardpoint, no, just no. If you want to use an XL 360 (you SHOULD be going fast in a Dragon, because even Cataphracts nearly run 80 kp/h), then ballistics are too large to be on any use, besides a UAC/5. XL 320 lets ballistics work a bit better, however. I've been able to do much more by stripping the armor from my ballistic arm, using an XL 360, 4 doubles, and an ERPPC and 2 PPCs (requires Dragon 1C).

The Dragon also has an advantage in its very highly placed energy hardpoint on its left torso. As long as you can see it from your cockpit, you can shoot it with those weapons. The Quickdraw has no such luck, as its energy is mounted a bit lower.

Honestly though, I think the Quickdraw has less survivability, but has the advantages of a bit better hardpoints (But NOT hardpoint positioning, which is actually a bit mediocre. Low hanging arms and mid energy points). I die much faster in the Quickdraw even with the same builds as my Dragon (3 PPCs, 3 heat sinks, 1 jump jet) because of its center torso being very tall (up to the top of its head). Despite that, I seemed to have better luck surviving as a brawler, probably because I could jump around and stay out of their firing lines and torso twist more effectively.

I think its a fun mech, but it has some issues. I would prefer if PGI stopped making mechs so stupidly sized. Its a 60 ton mech and its got the body size of a 75 ton mech. The best we can ask for is for the side torsos to be made larger because they rarely seem to get hit, even when I'm torso twisting (its usually the arms that get hit when you torso twist).

Edited by Orzorn, 20 June 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Orzorn]

Cervantes88, on 20 June 2013 - 02:14 AM, said:

but because they survive three times where a Dragon dies in 3secs.

Quickdraws are bigger than Dragons by two meters, wider than dragons, and their "head" counts as their CT for purposes of hitboxes. The Quickdraw has a bigger CT than the Dragon by far, and I can survive far better in my Dragon than my Quickdraw with exactly the same builds. The Quickdraw suffers from PGI's bad scaling, and it doesn't help its side torso hitboxes are almost non-existent. Its side torsos need to be made larger, because even while torso twisting my CT was disintegrating (because my HEAD counts as a CT, so torso twisting won't remove your big fat head as a target).

Switched to my Dragon, spat out 6 or so 400+ damage games in a row, and if we lost I was always the last person alive. I understand the complaint about the Dragon's CT, but torso twisting and use of your arms can actually hide much of it. The Quickdraw with the exact same build (with one jump jet replacing one heat sink) couldn't put that damage out, because it couldn't survive nearly as long.

But as I said, it seems the Quickdraw is a poor sniping platform. The position of its energy hardpoints makes them have to put nearly half their torso over a hill, whereas the Dragon can shoot over hills without revealing even a tenth of their body (The left torso energy hardpoint is the highest point on the Dragon's body).

I would say, however, that Quickdraws seem better suited for brawling, because their fat head just can't take hill humping as a sniper, nor can their lower energy hardpoints. At least in a brawl you can put that jump jet to good use maneuvering around. It doesn't really help you to jump snipe.

[PropagandaWar]

My 1C and flame handle better but seem to have less firepower. The QD's take some getting used too. Even with fully armored legs the enemy seems to love shooting at them. They also feel a tad Jerky. I thought it may be the patch but I got back into my hunchy and dragon and it was smooth sailing when the ping wasn't in the 190's. Hope they fix that today I'm used to being between 70-100. The Biggest downfall on the QD is its size. I really wish these guys would scale these sucker. QD to large Spider to amsll.

[Fate 6]

QKD is pretty bad right now. It's more an investment in the future when we get SRMs that aren't trash. Until SRMs are buffed, its weapons will be quite sub-par since loading an XL is pretty risky. It remains to be seen what it will be like with SRMs at full force.

[Orzorn]

Fate 6, on 20 June 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

QKD is pretty bad right now. It's more an investment in the future when we get SRMs that aren't trash. Until SRMs are buffed, its weapons will be quite sub-par since loading an XL is pretty risky. It remains to be seen what it will be like with SRMs at full force.

Actually, loading an XL is the exact opposite of risky at this point. My mates and I were actually DOWN ARMORING our side torsos because the hitboxes are so pathetically small they never seem to get struck. You're far, far more likely to die from your CT getting destroyed than by any side torso destruction.

[Ngamok]

Orzorn, on 20 June 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

The Dragon also has an advantage in its very highly placed energy hardpoint on its left torso. As long as you can see it from your cockpit, you can shoot it with those weapons. The Quickdraw has no such luck, as its energy is mounted a bit lower.

Yea, good call. The Flame has the ballistic shoulder the same way instead of having the energy in the lower slung arms.

[Trauglodyte]

Everyone is switching to the QD because they can dump the JJs and go with the 6 energy/1 missile chassis so that they can cheese it up with 3 PPCs or 4 Lrg Lases. It isn't that the QD is better then the Dragon but rather that the QD has a chassis that is abusable for today's bullsh!t meta lameness. The end.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I think at the end of the day that while they are the same weight, they are just two different mechs and your mileage may vary depending on what you like and what you don't.

For me the Quickdraw 5K has rapidly become one of my favorite and most successful mechs with me average more damage output than any other mech I own aside from my Heavy Metal. I honestly feel that I have much more knock out power with my QD build than I ever did on any of my Dragons aside maybe from some builds on my Flame. I also feel much more survivable because damage is typically spread out over my entire mech, not just concentrated in the CT like what happens often on the Dragon. Also the QDs large arms can be used quite readily to shield a damaged torso. Lastly with 5 JJs I find that I am often time getting the drop on the enemy by approaching from angles they don't expect, something the Dragon can't do as well due to being ground bound.

My build is 280XL, 18 DHS, 2 PPCs, 4 MLs, 5 JJ, 320 AF which offers plently of mid-long range firepower combined with excellent medium/short range burst.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Trauglodyte, on 20 June 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Everyone is switching to the QD because they can dump the JJs and go with the 6 energy/1 missile chassis so that they can cheese it up with 3 PPCs or 4 Lrg Lases. It isn't that the QD is better then the Dragon but rather that the QD has a chassis that is abusable for today's bullsh!t meta lameness. The end.

Ok both mechs weight 60 tons and the 1C, Fang and Flame all have 4 Energy Slots. So....what is the difference again? Why are people switching? I am confused? hehe.

Seriously you can do a Quad LL or Triple PPC set up on a Dragon so there is absolutely no need for anyone to switch to a QD if you want that type of build. Obviously that is not the reason for any switching going on.

[Trauglodyte]

Viktor Drake, on 20 June 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Ok both mechs weight 60 tons and the 1C, Fang and Flame all have 4 Energy Slots. So....what is the difference again? Why are people switching? I am confused? hehe.

Seriously you can do a Quad LL or Triple PPC set up on a Dragon so there is absolutely no need for anyone to switch to a QD if you want that type of build. Obviously that is not the reason for any switching going on.

And you'd be wrong. In order to do the Quad LL or Triple PPC set up, you're limited to the Flame and the 1C. And, in both of those cases all (Flame) or half (1C) of your energy hard points are in your arms which are easy enough to take off. The QD, on the other hand, has everything you need in the side torsos. On top of that, the QD doesn't have a Bob Hope nose for a center torso where as the QD also has pretty large arms which are good for shielding. And, finally, you can run a trip PPC or quad Lrg Laser while still running JJs which the Flame/1C has no access to, ever.

Pure and simple, pure/heavy energy builds with pinpoint accuracy are THE meta right now unless you've got the ability to mount heavy energy and a gauss/ac20 and that doesn't work for the Dragon. The QD, on the other hand, can do everything that cheese builds are made to do and do it well.

[armyof1]

Personally I'd much prefer doing a 4LL build on the Flame since with the lasers in the arms gives you the fastest tracking and the best chance to keep up with anything fast running around you. Torso lasers I generally find are not as useful, PPCs work better from torso since you don't need to keep the beam on target, which arms are just better for. But even then the high left torso energy hardpoints on the DRG-1C is really good for sniping, while I've read comments about how the torso energy on the QD are mounted significantly lower, forcing you to expose a larger part of the mech when trying to snipe.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Been having some remarkable success with a 4ML/SRM10 with a stock engine though I really dont like losing the epic looking PPC arm. Iv been making heavy use of the heavy freaking jump jets to re-orient my mech that helps me outmaneuver other mechs. Like the dragon it feels pretty underwhelming compared to smaller and bigger mechs but its starting to grow on me, even though its entirely too chunky.