100 replies to this topic

[Little Nemo]

Zolaz, on 28 June 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

What happens if PPCs just disappear? **looks inside his crystal ball** Looks like you QQ about something else.

Who is QQing guy? Being as we just won Merik and RHOD, I think Magician has a foot to stand on.

MaddMaxx, on 28 June 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Did anyone note if there was a increase in Gauss Rifle use at all? Just curious.

We saw some gausscats, I think that's about it.

Edited by Skinny Pete, 28 June 2013 - 11:55 AM.

[Sniper09121986]

General Taskeen, on 28 June 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

If PPC's disappear all that is left for my AWS-8Q record sheet edition is a small laser

Spot on, General, sir. AWS are the only mechs LEGITIMATE to use 3 PPC's, since they don't have Gauss ballistic slots. But in the case of other mechs... is it really so much of a problem? I never found any need to use more than 2 PPC's on any other mech. It just comes down to this naturally, to be able to fight in all ranges (more or less) with any kind of efficiency and flexibility. I don't mind anyone riding the fabled 6-PPC-Stalker-of-Pwnage, because it can barely watch its own back up close. Even before they nerfed PPC's in May, I guess, I never had too many problems against them. Every weapon we have now has its uses, although some adjustments would be nice, of course

[Little Nemo]

Sniper09121986, on 28 June 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

Spot on, General, sir. AWS are the only mechs LEGITIMATE to use 3 PPC's, since they don't have Gauss ballistic slots. But in the case of other mechs... is it really so much of a problem? I never found any need to use more than 2 PPC's on any other mech. It just comes down to this naturally, to be able to fight in all ranges (more or less) with any kind of efficiency and flexibility. I don't mind anyone riding the fabled 6-PPC-Stalker-of-Pwnage, because it can barely watch its own back up close. Even before they nerfed PPC's in May, I guess, I never had too many problems against them. Every weapon we have now has its uses, although some adjustments would be nice, of course

People are taking this too literally. You have to recognize that if PPCs were normalized to be on par with the rest of the weapons, we would see games like we did last night.

[Sniper09121986]

On par with what, actually? The lasers are more or less all the same. PPC is almost like a Gauss with infinite ammunition and ECM suppression, and that makes it stand out, or else it would be yet another laser Every weapon has to be unique somehow, and PPC does just that. The problem is that MOST people think PPC boating would get them easier/faster kills, and against MOST people this is the case. When they set that jacked-up LRM trajectory and a damage buff recently, I had a hard time finding anyone with a PPC and not an LRM, but now they are more or less in balance. After all, if weapons don't make a difference, what use are they? I have already said that some adjustments wouldn't hurt, and the devs said they are looking into the matter, but if they give in to the sheer amount of QQ and nerf PPC's to the level of machine guns as they did with LRM's back in the days, nobody would appreciate. In short, learn to play first, complain second. Actually, not too long ago I thought Dragon and Awesome were bad mechs, but now I know better

Besides, as you have said about that very game,

Skinny Pete, on 28 June 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

We saw some gausscats, I think that's about it.

They always find a way to spoil the day

[Little Nemo]

Sniper09121986, on 28 June 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

On par with what, actually? The lasers are more or less all the same. PPC is almost like a Gauss with infinite ammunition and ECM suppression, and that makes it stand out, or else it would be yet another laser Every weapon has to be unique somehow, and PPC does just that. The problem is that MOST people think PPC boating would get them easier/faster kills, and against MOST people this is the case. When they set that jacked-up LRM trajectory and a damage buff recently, I had a hard time finding anyone with a PPC and not an LRM, but now they are more or less in balance. After all, if weapons don't make a difference, what use are they? I have already said that some adjustments wouldn't hurt, and the devs said they are looking into the matter, but if they give in to the sheer amount of QQ and nerf PPC's to the level of machine guns as they did with LRM's back in the days, nobody would appreciate. In short, learn to play first, complain second. Actually, not too long ago I thought Dragon and Awesome were bad mechs, but now I know better

Besides, as you have said about that very game,



They always find a way to spoil the day

Have 4500 games played and own 3 or 4 of every mech. In my limited experience I do think they could use a little taste of the nerf bat.

And the awesome and dragin are sub-par mechs.

[White Panther]

keith, on 28 June 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

we need weps like the TF2 rocket launcher. very low skill to use but a wtf high skill ceiling. right now there is no weps that fill that void, the ppc and guass should be the weps that fill that. should be semi easy to hit targets that are 300m, but if u need to blast a ct of a fast scout that is 1.3k should take fair amount of skill.

Yep, I want AC's and pulse lasers to be better and for some new weapons to come. Like some kind of a slow, dumbfire missile that does a lot of damage but requires a lot more skill to use.

[Deathlike]

If PPCs disappeared, the meta will shift overnight. There would probably be a lot more Gauss builds (CTF-3Ds and K2/Jager builds will come to mind) and a whole lot more LLs.

It doesn't remove the fundamental problems out of the equation though.

[trollocaustic]

Quote

This can be done by increasing the PPC heat (perhaps the midpoint between where it was, and where it is).

Current Heat, 7
TT Heat 10
Current dispersion for DHS 1.5
TT dispersion for DHS 2

I don't see a problem.

[HansBlix WMD]

trollocaustic, on 28 June 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Current Heat, 7
TT Heat 10
Current dispersion for DHS 1.5
TT dispersion for DHS 2

I don't see a problem.

TT Chance of multiple PPCs hitting the same component: Small
Current Chance of multiple PPCs hitting the same component: Guaranteed

See the problem?

[PanzerMagier]

Most of all these ppc boat lovers will realize they actually suck, get depressed and leave the game. Making a better, brighter community.

[3rdworld]

PanzerMagier, on 28 June 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Most of all these ppc boat lovers will realize they actually suck, get depressed and leave the game. Making a better, brighter community.

or they post stupid comments....


who knows.

[Anjian]

I am sorry but a so called heavy PPC meta never made Gauss, Large Laser, AC disappear.  In fact, they never disappeared.  There are always plenty of these around.  The "problem" and its not really a problem, is that many people like playing PPCs.  Because its fun.  But those guys that rely on Gauss, or AC20 or multiple AC2s can do just as good or better.  Those Large Lasers are still very effective as I found out (recently moved my Misery with ERPPCs and AC20 to Large Lasers and AC20).  

If you like fun, try a Cataphract 4X with quad AC5s.

https://www.youtube....XDBTza70#at=213

Edited by Anjian, 28 June 2013 - 11:06 PM.

[MischiefSC]

I posted this elsewhere already.

Of energy weapons, PPCs got a 2-4 points heat reduction in addition to doing full damage to a single location with every shot. Other lasers got heat INCREASED and do damage spread over the target. PPCs are imbalanced compared to all other energy weapons. They got a huge heat buff, everything else got a heat nerf. I'll take a 2 or 3 point heat increase for my AC10 if I also get a 2x projectile speed boost, 1/2 the weight and less than 1/2 the crit spaces and unlimited ammo!

Oh, wait. That would be horribly imbalanced.

Hey....

[P e n u m b r a]

large lasers / gauss meta

[Galen Crayn]

The solution of ALL the ballance problems: only one weapon for all, the Faser - heat 6, damage 2, range 500m. The fights will take ages, everybody has the same chances

[Lightfoot]

I played in a league with maximum Dropweight being one of the modifiers. Then teams were free to utilize the tonnage in any way they wanted. This lead to the most varied matches you could play.

The PPC, again? The PPC is an Inner Sphere vanilla version of the weapon type. Everyone says it's OP and then brings ACs and Gauss mostly, though they might add one PPC or two to balance their configs. When I see a Stalker it usually has 5 LLAS, though I did see one Stalker with 5 PPCs once. It was alone and couldn't defend itself due to overheat each shot. It's a newbie thing to boat energy, but I wouldn't change the game's weaponry portfolio to beat some newbs.

See, a shutdown mech is helpless. It should be an easy kill and if it starts back up you need to plan for next time to make sure it doesn't restart. Other than a hard heat cap, that's how you discourage energy boating, which is not a PPC problem. Take PPCs away and they'll just use 5-6 LLAS, which are actually better.

I am just concerned that everyone is over-reacting to a nice, but average Energy weapon. I can easily go into Mechlab and build a lighter, faster, tougher mech that uses Ballistics and Lasers and does 2x the DPS of any PPC boat and it never shutsdown, it just goes on doing 45 damage every 4 seconds and no PPC mech can match that rate of damage.

So if there is a balance issue with MWO weapons destroying Mechs too quickly you need to look beyond the vanilla IS PPC for a cause. Or you all are just not being honest about the problem. You may have a favored playstyle or loadout that is blinding you to the truth.

[FactorlanP]

Lightfoot, on 29 June 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

I can easily go into Mechlab and build a lighter, faster, tougher mech that uses Ballistics and Lasers and does 2x the DPS of any PPC boat and it never shutsdown, it just goes on doing 45 damage every 4 seconds and no PPC mech can match that rate of damage.

DPS does you no good when a single alpha from the PPC boat blows out your side torso in one shot, taking half of your weapons out.

In MWO, alpha trumps DPS in most situations.

[Squidhead Jax]

FactorlanP, on 28 June 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

I really don't think Gauss rifles will ever be the problem that PPCs are now.

They're big, heavy, ammo dependent, and they freakin' explode if sneezed upon. They have lots of drawbacks to balance their damage, projectile speed, and damage potential.

PPCs don't have the requisite number of drawbacks to balance their effectiveness in their current iteration.

Did you play in closed beta? Gauss Rifles were totally The Thing, and still were when I wandered off for various reasons.

Fragility doesn't make much difference when you can frag your opponent from long range first, not have to worry about shutdown, and still carry plenty of ammo to destroy a few Atlases (did people stop saying Atlai yet? I hope they stopped saying Atlai) through full CT armor. PPCs were fun when they actually worked, and my favorite in-universe weapon well before MWO for entirely flavor-based reasons (because freaking lightning cannon), but heat made their use suicidal from a meta perspective. I'm sad that they're apparently too good now that I'm coming back, because I always want to stuff unreasonable numbers of PPCs into things and now it'll look like I'm a FotMer

[Lightfoot]

FactorlanP, on 29 June 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

DPS does you no good when a single alpha from the PPC boat blows out your side torso in one shot, taking half of your weapons out.

In MWO, alpha trumps DPS in most situations.

Yes, but IS PPCs are mid-level versions. Clan ERPPCs are 900 meters, 15 damage, 15 heat, 7 tons, 3 criticals. A Supernova variant carries 4 for 60 damage, the Novacat prime carries 3 and an ER Large I think. They all fire them as a single group. Heat is a problem, but with 30 Clan DHS, not much. My point is the IS PPC is not a big deal in the scope of MechWarrior weapons.

And look at this mech, a CTF-3D with 2xGauss and MLAS. It does 45 damage alphas every 4 seconds and never stops. A 6xPPC mech shutsdown after every shot. I think the CTF-3D trumps the PPC mech easily. Certainly one is no more dangerous than the other.

That's why I think going after the PPC as the problem will get you nowhere closer to a balanced game. The problem is actually that the Mechs are too weak to stand up to double recharge and the PPC is showing this to be so. Ergo, it is the target, but not the actual problem.

[FunkyLilElf]

MaddMaxx, on 28 June 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Did anyone note if there was a increase in Gauss Rifle use at all? Just curious.

IIRC, there was not a big increase in gauss rifles. We saw a couple, but we saw a lot more AC20s and just overall diverse builds. We saw a good mix of weapons and it seemed like the teams were actually thinking about loadouts and trying to maneuver more.

I can honestly say that we had a blast playing this way. This is coming from a sniper pilot as well. While I enjoy long range combat myself, I would take what we did any day of the week because it allowed a team to play the way they wanted and not the way they felt they had to. It opened up possibilities, and that is something that we need more of.

FunkyLilElf