7 replies to this topic

[Magicbullet141]

http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite

[Syllogy]

Let's go down the checklist:

Sarna version:

• Interferes with Guided Weaponry, Targeting Computers, and Communication Systems
  
• Confuses Radar, Infrared, Ultraviolet, Magscan, and Sonar
  
• Affects Artemis, C3, C3i, and NARC
  
• Jams Beagle Active Probe
  
• 180m Range

MWO v1

• Interferes with Guided Weaponry and Targeting Computers
  
• Confuses Radar
  
• Affects NARC
  
• Jams Beagle Active Probe
  
• 180m Range

... you wanted it to be more OP? ... genius.

[Unbound Inferno]

Syllogy, on 23 July 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

Let's go down the checklist:

Sarna version:

• Interferes with Guided Weaponry, Targeting Computers, and Communication Systems
  
• Confuses Radar, Infrared, Ultraviolet, Magscan, and Sonar
  
• Affects Artemis, C3, C3i, and NARC
  
• Jams Beagle Active Probe
  
• 180m Range

MWO v1

• Interferes with Guided Weaponry and Targeting Computers
  
• Confuses Radar
  
• Affects NARC
  
• Jams Beagle Active Probe
  
• 180m Range

... you wanted it to be more OP? ... genius.

http://mwomercs.com/...warrior-online/
For more information I did already...


You got the MWO version wrong.

• Can swap to ECCM within 180m to jam another on ECM
  
• Interferes with Guided Weaponry and Targeting Computers
  
• Confuses Radar
  
• Affects NARC
  
• drastically increases the time needed to gain a missile lock
  
• Jams Beagle Active Probe no longer does this....
  
• 180m "Range" where the mech is unforgettable unless you are 250m away (Stealth Armor)
  
• Prevents Streaks from gaining missile locks (Angel ECM)
  
• Breaks a Missile lock if the curso falls off or if the mech gets out of "sight" range (Angel ECM)
  
• Allows Indirect fire if the mech is targeted from an ally within that 180m-250m buffer range (Bloodhound effect)
  
• Is countered by Beagle Active Probe within 150m - but not if the mech carrying ECM has it, then it must swap to ECCM (Uh, BAP is ECCM?)
  
• Can be temporarily canceled by a PPC shot (Should be multiple PPC shots, not one)

So yeah, we want it to be less, not more. More is what we got - a Guardian ECM, Angel ECM and Stealth Armor rolled up into a small 2 crit, 1.5 ton package.

</p>

[Syllogy]

Unbound Inferno, on 23 July 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...warrior-online/
For more information I did already...


You got the MWO version wrong.

• Can swap to ECCM within 180m to jam another on ECM
  
• Interferes with Guided Weaponry and Targeting Computers
  
• Confuses Radar
  
• Affects NARC
  
• drastically increases the time needed to gain a missile lock
  
• Jams Beagle Active Probe no longer does this....
  
• 180m "Range" where the mech is unforgettable unless you are 250m away (Stealth Armor)
  
• Prevents Streaks from gaining missile locks (Angel ECM)
  
• Breaks a Missile lock if the curso falls off or if the mech gets out of "sight" range (Angel ECM)
  
• Allows Indirect fire if the mech is targeted from an ally within that 180m-250m buffer range (Bloodhound effect)
  
• Is countered by Beagle Active Probe within 150m - but not if the mech carrying ECM has it, then it must swap to ECCM (Uh, BAP is ECCM?)
  
• Can be temporarily canceled by a PPC shot (Should be multiple PPC shots, not one)

So yeah, we want it to be less, not more. More is what we got - a Guardian ECM, Angel ECM and Stealth Armor rolled up into a small 2 crit, 1.5 ton package.



</p>

• Can swap to ECCM within 180m to jam another on ECM
  
• Interferes with Guided Weaponry and Targeting Computers
  
• Confuses Radar
  
• Affects NARC
  
• drastically increases the time needed to gain a missile lock
  
• 180m "Range" where the mech is [untargetable] unless you are 250m away Advanced Sensors and BAP both overcome this.
  
• Prevents Streaks from gaining missile locks (Angel ECM) Part of "Interfering" with Guided Weapons
  
• Breaks a Missile lock if the curso falls off or if the mech gets out of "sight" range (Angel ECM) This happens regardless of ECM, this is not part of ECM.
  
• Allows Indirect fire if the mech is targeted from an ally within that 180m-250m buffer range. Not part of ECM
  
• Is countered by Beagle Active Probe within 150m - but not if the mech carrying ECM has it, then it must swap to ECCM (Uh, BAP is ECCM?) Was a balance decision to prevent Counter + ECM from working at the same time on the same mech
  
• Can be temporarily canceled by a PPC shot (Should be multiple PPC shots, not one) A counter, which means you got less, not more.

	Sarna	MWO v1	MWO v2
Interferes with Guided Weaponry	Yes	Yes - Prevents locks beyond 200m	Yes - Prevents locks beyond 250m
Interferes with Targeting Computers	Yes	Yes - Longer lock times	Yes - Longer lock times
Confuses Radar	Yes	Yes - Cannot see teammates, teammates cannot see you.	No
Affects Artemis	Yes	No	No
Affects NARC	Yes	Yes	Yes
Dedicated Hardpoint	No	No	Yes
Jams Beagle Active Probe	Yes	Yes	No
Countered by PPC	No	Yes	Yes
Countered by ECCM	Yes	Yes	Yes
Countered by BAP	No	No	Yes

End result: What we got is much more balanced than Battletech's version. Right out of the gates, Battletech's ECM implementation was way overpowered for MWO.

Edited by Syllogy, 23 July 2013 - 07:20 AM.

[Unbound Inferno]

How can it be balanced now when it is doing what it shouldn't?

The ECM should still be targetable at a range of about 800-1000m by a mech with LOS. - as it is now that is acting like Stealth Armor.
They should be able to gain a target lock for LRMs in that distance. Another Stealth feature, not ECM.
Guardian ECM SHOULD NEVER block Streaks. This comes from Angel ECM - which isn't around yet.

3 of the most basic parts - the system is broken. Is it balanced in its own screwy half-assed "PGI doesn't care" way? Sure - but that's the PROBLEM.

Guardian ECM shouldn't do those things as it makes this game an on/off if you have ECM or not.

And Counters? PULEAZE. NOBODY in a PUG carries BAP or TAG, meaning a team drop in it with ECM is overwhelming. The only saving grace is the PPC, but if an ECM is being hit with PPC it isn't doing it job well - if you run into someone doing it, well its too late. To say nothing of how backwards it is for BAP to counter ECM when it should be the other way around.

AMS is in such a screwy way that a LRM can't work unless its boated - leaving the LRM user in a bad spot on a PUG to begin with! Which only compounds the issue as nobody uses target locks cause its not needed for direct-fire weapons.

That is WRONG. It demoralizes new players and discourages them from playing since it takes so much to get the tools - and the Beagle isn't even described properly in-game to show it does that! No, the system is wrong, it is screwed up, and done in such a half-assed way it needs an overhaul.

Edited by Unbound Inferno, 23 July 2013 - 08:48 AM.

[Unbound Inferno]

Syllogy, on 23 July 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

• Can swap to ECCM within 180m to jam another on ECM
  
• Interferes with Guided Weaponry and Targeting Computers
  
• Confuses Radar
  
• Affects NARC
  
• drastically increases the time needed to gain a missile lock
  
• 180m "Range" where the mech is [untargetable] unless you are 250m away Advanced Sensors and BAP both overcome this.
  
• Prevents Streaks from gaining missile locks (Angel ECM) Part of "Interfering" with Guided Weapons
  
• Breaks a Missile lock if the curso falls off or if the mech gets out of "sight" range (Angel ECM) This happens regardless of ECM, this is not part of ECM.
  
• Allows Indirect fire if the mech is targeted from an ally within that 180m-250m buffer range. Not part of ECM
  
• Is countered by Beagle Active Probe within 150m - but not if the mech carrying ECM has it, then it must swap to ECCM (Uh, BAP is ECCM?) Was a balance decision to prevent Counter + ECM from working at the same time on the same mech
  
• Can be temporarily canceled by a PPC shot (Should be multiple PPC shots, not one) A counter, which means you got less, not more.

Also, you are DEAD wrong. I have Adv sensor + BAP and I can't see ECM until 300m or less.
The effects of allowing indirect fire is a direct result of ECM being broken.
Using BAP to counter is another point of how ECM is wrong - face it.
And PPC is countering it wrong, only showing poor designs.

[Ryokens leap]

Ha,ha OP, January called, it wants its topic back. Here's a tip- when u see low signal message turn around and shoot the Raven/ Cicada.

[Redwood Elf]

Ryokens leap, on 23 July 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Ha,ha OP, January called, it wants its topic back. Here's a tip- when u see low signal message turn around and shoot the Raven/ Cicada.

What if it's an AS7-D-DC? Turn around and get AC20 to the face?