152 replies to this topic

[Chunkymonkey]

How did you come up with this idea?


Some diehard fans might be grabbing their pitchforks right now....just saying.

While a good idea, they have already stated that they will be staying close to the canon so.....(hides pitchfork).

[Evinthal]

BeakieHelmet, on 10 June 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Uh, I'm pretty sure everything you've listed here has been done at least once in various works of fiction.

The deal is, MWO is an ALTERNATE continuity. This is like 2009 Star Trek. This is a different universe.

The original Battletech timeline is still there, it will always be there, nothing will be changing that and this game will certainly not change that.

This is battletech, except what if the players had control over how the timeline went, and fought for how the timeline should go with skill and between matches? That makes this a different battletech, and so I say in this new, alternate universe that has no sway over the original canon at all, why not go crazy with it? It's not hurting anything, and I honestly don't see why anyone would oppose this given it won't be effecting the official timeline in the least and it has the potential to be a lot of fun.

Just ease back, relax, and recognize that MWO will forever be an ALTERNATE continuity, not the main one, and have fun with it.

See the problem I have with this is that you then approach alternate reality continuity getting mixed up with core reality continuity, and then that ends up with you having to reboot, and then re-rebot, and then re-re-reboot like comics do.

[Grendel408]

<grabs pitchfork and torch> LOL! No... stick with canon/lore as stated by Devs

[BanditRaptor]

Evinthal, on 10 June 2012 - 08:49 PM, said:

See the problem I have with this is that you then approach alternate reality continuity getting mixed up with core reality continuity, and then that ends up with you having to reboot, and then re-rebot, and then re-re-reboot like comics do.

How? MWO is the alternate continuity, the main books are the main continuity, it's awful hard to get the sources mixed up there.

I mean, just say "Is this information from MWO?"

If yes, it's from the alternate continuity.

We can assume the continuity up to 3049 is pretty much the same, but that's where they split, and that's all there is to it, easy as pie.

[Rot Wulf]

BeakieHelmet, on 10 June 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Uh, I'm pretty sure everything you've listed here has been done at least once in various works of fiction.

The deal is, MWO is an ALTERNATE continuity. This is like 2009 Star Trek. This is a different universe.

The original Battletech timeline is still there, it will always be there, nothing will be changing that and this game will certainly not change that.

This is battletech, except what if the players had control over how the timeline went, and fought for how the timeline should go with skill and between matches? That makes this a different battletech, and so I say in this new, alternate universe that has no sway over the original canon at all, why not go crazy with it? It's not hurting anything, and I honestly don't see why anyone would oppose this given it won't be effecting the official timeline in the least and it has the potential to be a lot of fun.

Just ease back, relax, and recognize that MWO will forever be an ALTERNATE continuity, not the main one, and have fun with it.

See the problem is the Dev's have already said it is the same universe and not some alternate continuity. To the point they have pinned the in game date to the real world calendar date.

There are plenty of fights between IS powers even after the clans show up. There is never peace in the IS. Liao and Merik both hit the FedCom after the clan invasion is stalled. There are rebellions and more. I think given they have placed players in control of periphery and border worlds that shift so often, that they will probably be right on with majority of the canon as it stands. There will be plenty of player wiggle room even with the sway of events around you being canon.

[BanditRaptor]

Rot Wulf, on 10 June 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

See the problem is the Dev's have already said it is the same universe and not some alternate continuity. To the point they have pinned the in game date to the real world calendar date.

You really don't understand how this is working...

The game is MIRRORING the main continuity, it's not going to be exactly the same in the long run. This is not the exact same canon as the main books, that would be ridiculous.

[Chunkymonkey]

This isnt even a argument, the Devs have already announced the timeline....end of story.

[Rot Wulf]

BeakieHelmet, on 10 June 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

You really don't understand how this is working...

The game is MIRRORING the main continuity, it's not going to be exactly the same in the long run. This is not the exact same canon as the main books, that would be ridiculous.

Except that contradicts what the Dev's have said. It would be ridiculous to pin real world date, to a canon date, and then toss the canon out the window.

Only fun house mirrors don't reflect the same as what is already there, are you trying to say the dev's mean that this game is fun house mirroring the canon? Cause what is in the mirrors in my house, is what the real thing looks like. They have said nothing about a timeline reboot, anywhere. There are tons of events only referred to in the books, and plenty of space for players to play and not get in the way of history.

I don't think you quite understand how this is working...

[BanditRaptor]

Rot Wulf, on 10 June 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Except that contradicts what the Dev's have said. It would be ridiculous to pin real world date, to a canon date, and then toss the canon out the window.

Only fun house mirrors don't reflect the same as what is already there, are you trying to say the dev's mean that this game is fun house mirroring the canon? Cause what is in the mirrors in my house, is what the real thing looks like. They have said nothing about a timeline reboot, anywhere. There are tons of events only referred to in the books, and plenty of space for players to play and not get in the way of history.

I don't think you quite understand how this is working...

A mirror does not show an exact image of whatever it is in front of it, it's similar but reversed. Saying a work of fiction is "mirroring" another means that there are obvious parallels between them but does not imply they are exactly the same.

The canon of battletech as it is written applies up to mid 3049, where the game's history begins, and from there the game might diverge from canon as much as they want it to. The devs have actually spoken a lot about how the game might diverge from the main continuity and how much they want the players to decide how the storyline goes. Again, this is not a reboot but an alternate continuity which might diverge greatly from the main one after 3049, I don't understand why this is a hard concept to grasp. It might also not diverge greatly after 3049 but nontheless might be different.

[Rot Wulf]

BeakieHelmet, on 10 June 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

A mirror does not show an exact image of whatever it is in front of it, it's similar but reversed. Saying a work of fiction is "mirroring" another means that there are obvious parallels between them but does not imply they are exactly the same.

The canon of battletech as it is written applies up to mid 3049, where the game's history begins, and from there the game might diverge from canon as much as they want it to. The devs have actually spoken a lot about how the game might diverge from the main continuity and how much they want the players to decide how the storyline goes. Again, this is not a reboot but an alternate continuity which might diverge greatly from the main one after 3049, I don't understand why this is a hard concept to grasp. It might also not diverge greatly after 3049 but nontheless might be different.

I fully grasp what you are saying, you are just simply wrong. It just goes against what the dev's are saying.They have not embraced alternate continuity, in fact they have run from it. If you were going to deviate why peg the real world calendar date, to the canon date at all. What possible reason would there be for the connection at all if you were not going to hold to the canon future at all? Far easier for a game developer to not couple them if they are forging their own path. Sticking to the canon was the reason for this coupling.

There are plenty of places where the canon only says there was conflict here, and not a whole lot more. There is space for player control of battles on non central worlds. They have said absolutely they will remove worlds from player control/conflict to meet canon events. They players will influence the flow, the canon will override. Sorry that is what they have said in all the interviews I have been able to locate.

[Promptus]

No Federated Commonwealth.... hmmmmmmmm. The Word of Blake being muffled by the foot in its mouth... hmmmmmmmm. Clanners realizing they bear no resemblance to the Old Star League and keeping to themselves out beyond the periphery.... hmmmmmmmmm.

I think I might like this.

[FactorlanP]

Rot Wulf, on 10 June 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

That reasoning is a Chewbacca defense,

Win!

http://www.southpark...ewbacca-defense

[Evinthal]

BeakieHelmet, on 10 June 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

A mirror does not show an exact image of whatever it is in front of it, it's similar but reversed. Saying a work of fiction is "mirroring" another means that there are obvious parallels between them but does not imply they are exactly the same.

The canon of battletech as it is written applies up to mid 3049, where the game's history begins, and from there the game might diverge from canon as much as they want it to. The devs have actually spoken a lot about how the game might diverge from the main continuity and how much they want the players to decide how the storyline goes. Again, this is not a reboot but an alternate continuity which might diverge greatly from the main one after 3049, I don't understand why this is a hard concept to grasp. It might also not diverge greatly after 3049 but nontheless might be different.

The MechWarrior:Online version of BattleTech universe will be Apocryphal (please note I am NOT calling the developers questionable or dubious, okay well maybe Paul...) like all the other video games have been.

It takes place in the canon but it is not presenting an alternate version or changing the story line.

In layman's terms: The story is "non-canon" canon

[BanditRaptor]

Rot Wulf, on 10 June 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

I fully grasp what you are saying, you are just simply wrong. It just goes against what the dev's are saying.They have not embraced alternate continuity, in fact they have run from it. If you were going to deviate why peg the real world calendar date, to the canon date at all. What possible reason would there be for the connection at all if you were not going to hold to the canon future at all? Far easier for a game developer to not couple them if they are forging their own path. Sticking to the canon was the reason for this coupling.

There are plenty of places where the canon only says there was conflict here, and not a whole lot more. There is space for player control of battles on non central worlds. They have said absolutely they will remove worlds from player control/conflict to meet canon events. They players will influence the flow, the canon will override. Sorry that is what they have said in all the interviews I have been able to locate.

For the date issue, again, the game's storyline is the same as the main continuity through 3049 and seeing as how the game is supposed to be taking place in real time a la EVE Online it makes the most sense to keep track of the game this way. Having a set date has nothing to do with sticking to the canon, it's simply a way to track time, just like in real life.

As for what the devs have said, I point you to this interview.

http://www.zam.com/s...tml?story=29803

Matthew said:

Matthew: I think it's always been the case that MechWarrior isn't your standard FPS. It's always been more simulation than twitch which I personally feel helps it to stand apart from the regular FPS crowd. I think the depth of the play experience can be much deeper in MechWarrior, battles aren't usually random fighting they represent factions vying for power with long standing histories and, while jumping in and blowing up Mechs is fun for many players, it's the connection to the BattleTech universe and being able to be fully immersed in it that we expect will keep players coming back.
Recently I've been inspired by EVE Online. It equally represents a rich world that aims to ensure you're able to have an impact, the combat is slower paced and you hear plenty of stories of unique player experiences. From a technical standpoint the key difference would be that Eve took the approach of having all players in the same world which can mean that large fleet battles are very taxing on their servers.
For MechWarrior Online we are not aiming to have all players in the same world at the same time, though over time I am interested to see how far we can push toward capturing the feeling of being in the same world without the technology behind the scenes needing to actually keep you in the same world. What I mean by that is what if you were in a battle and during the battle you were hearing events happening on the other side of the planet or from orbit?
This is not something that is currently planned but it shows how there are approaches that even without having all players on the same servers can give the sense of a cohesive real-time universe, I would love to see MechWarrior Online expand in scale over time. There is certainly plenty to support us in the canon if we are able to do so, jump ships, warships, orbital bombardment, aero fighters etc.
Some other examples we've discussed that show how we might be able to convey the feeling of being in an active universe would be invading player's games e.g. clan invasions, having options to play maps in sync with the time of day so playing at night would mean night time maps, triggering environmental effects only for players in certain sections of the Inner Sphere. Again, none of these are currently planned features but give a sense of how we are thinking and aiming not only to realize some of the events on the timeline but to add life, excitement and ongoing engagement to the universe.

The desire for an active universe where the players can have an impact and drawing inspiration from EVE online is strong evidence that battles the players take part in will matter in some way with regards to the overall star map, and might even let players dictate the course of history and diverge completely from the main timeline.

[Thorolf Kylesson]

I want to stomp WoBies. I like the time line.

[UncleKulikov]

We should just have Autocanon.

Jad Ivask, on 10 June 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Eh, I'd prefer not to see a total rewrite. Theres a lot of history there, a lot of player memories, and a lot of hard work put into the story. Rewriting it all would cheapen the whole franchise.

Now, I'd certainly be for some cleaning up. Fix some of the more glaring plotholes, clarify some messed up lore where multiple sources contradict each other, even retcon a few things if necesseary but leave that for extreme cases. Again, a total rewrite would be bad, but a freshening up and a bit of spring cleaning would do wonders. Less rebuilding, more polishing.

This, for truth. We are participants in the play, that has already been written. I don't want this to reboot the franchise, it would start too late to do so in a meaningful manner anyway.

Edited by UncleKulikov, 10 June 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[Hayden]

What's done is done. MWO will be great for the alternate continuity, but it should not replace the canon.

[FactorlanP]

I fear that the Devs will have difficulty keeping up with the timeline. Developing stuff to add to the game is labor intensive, it strikes me that starting with 3049 won't leave much wiggle room to get stuff put together to keep up with the unrelenting tic tok of the clock...

[KageRyuu]

Like it's been said before, sounds good in theory, but in practice it will never work. Primarily because following cannon is so much easier than leaving anything up to players which would bring such a heavy work load down on the Devs who still have so much on their plate as it is. So until they have every possible mech within the timeline designed and built and institute melee combat, I don't see them leaving the history of the IS up to players when they already have a well chronicled timeline as it is.

Not to say players won't decide universal events, just nothing major, nothing written about in the current canonical timeline anyway. Though if you think about it, that's probably for the best, because it leaves us an entire unrecorded history of events happening out of those few written about in canon.

Edited by KageRyuu, 10 June 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[Rot Wulf]

BeakieHelmet, on 10 June 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

For the date issue, again, the game's storyline is the same as the main continuity through 3049 and seeing as how the game is supposed to be taking place in real time a la EVE Online it makes the most sense to keep track of the game this way. Having a set date has nothing to do with sticking to the canon, it's simply a way to track time, just like in real life.

As for what the devs have said, I point you to this interview.

http://www.zam.com/s...tml?story=29803



The desire for an active universe where the players can have an impact and drawing inspiration from EVE online is strong evidence that battles the players take part in will matter in some way with regards to the overall star map, and might even let players dictate the course of history and diverge completely from the main timeline.

Okay see the GDC interviews where they say they will remove planets from play "when they need to". Eve had a fresh start with no timeline expectations. With all the populated worlds, there is always places in the timeline without concrete set for every world on every day. Players can have plenty of control of plenty of worlds without altering canon at all. These things are not incompatible. Read again he brings up "the timeline" directly in the interview you quote, not the new timeline.

Look again at page two of the interview, yes again they say they are keeping to the timeline.

Edited by Rot Wulf, 10 June 2012 - 10:51 PM.