54 replies to this topic

[Nauht]

And they'd be almost perfect.

The damage is now decent, the drop angles right, maybe a but more of a speed tweak cos some lights can still outrun them.

The No.1 gripe for LRMs at the moment is the CT damage and the SSRM fix, er, fixes that problem.

Don't see why PGI didn't do the same thing for LRM's as SSRMs.

[Novakaine]

Good Jebus just stop it.
Ya'll won't be happy until every weapon only does 0.1 points of dmg.
And sadly ya know what?
Somebody will still be whining.
Just freaking stop it.
What the hell do ya think the missles are suppose to hit?
Anybody?
The biggest part of the mech - the freaking center torso luckly the part with the most armor.
Hide it don't just be a target.
Come on guys for the love of Jebus just stop it.

[CeeKay Boques]

Can you imagine the amount of busted light legs with these type of LRMS?

[Otto Cannon]

Only someone from the depths of the steering-wheel underhive could imagine that making LRMs even worse is a good idea. They are already so bad that they aren't used competitively.

[Rattazustra]

I know it is hard to imagine without even the most basic knowledge of projectile tracing, but there is absolutely no alternative to LRMs preferring the torso area. That is because these swarmy rockety things you see coming towards you? That is not a spot-faced guy with a bag of dice shouting "LRM strike!". It is an actual simulation of a swarm of rockets. They hit where they hit, based on their flight path. There is nothing that can be done about where they hit. The only possible target they can aim for is in the center of the locked enemy. The only thing that distributes damage is how far the missile cloud spreads out, BUT that is no way to truly shift damage for increasing it too much will only reduce total damage due to lots of projectiles missing the target.

If you dont like it that mostly unaimed attacks with distributed spread tend to go for center mass -> travel back in time and complain to Carl Friedrich Gauss.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

With this kind of targeting, like SSRMs, and a faster projectile speed, I won't mind testing out how this could work for LRMs.

I imagine seeing many mechs stripped of their arms and side torsos, and it could be funny to see legging by LRMs since enough players skimp on leg armor.

[mike29tw]

Stop giving PGI more chances to f*ck up LRMs. We don't need those.

[Nauht]

So the LRM bous show their colors - they want it kept hiting the CT for easy mode.

Up the speed, maybe up he damage but get rid of the CT homing ability.

[Selfish]

Nauht, on 19 July 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:

So the LRM bous show their colors - they want it kept hiting the CT for easy mode.

Up the speed, maybe up he damage but get rid of the CT homing ability.

You're being idiotic. The reason missiles seek CTs so hard at the moment is because splash was near entirely removed. Once the hitbox issue is fixed splash will be re-implemented. This also means the bones will be adjusted so that splash is once again the main method of LRM damage. This is actually something LRM boaters clamor for, since a salvo to the side/rear of any mech suffers the black-hole issue just like a projectile boat. You expend your ammo, but your damage just disappears.

[Magicbullet141]

Novakaine, on 18 July 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

Good Jebus just stop it.
Ya'll won't be happy until every weapon only does 0.1 points of dmg.
And sadly ya know what?
Somebody will still be whining.
Just freaking stop it.
What the hell do ya think the missles are suppose to hit?
Anybody?
The biggest part of the mech - the freaking center torso luckly the part with the most armor.
Hide it don't just be a target.
Come on guys for the love of Jebus just stop it.

We'll be happy when the LRMs don't all home in on center torso, people like you just want an "I win" button to push and make the baddies get CT cored in one volley. In the table top LRMs hit random parts on the mech and only did 1 dmg each and most of the time the whole volley didn't hit. LRMs do not need a damage increase, more like .8 dmg per LRM since they are all practically guaranteed to hit if it can. Also the ammo per ton you get is just plain disgusting, you get the leisure of shooting off volleys at the first sign of a target lock, wasting lots of shots but still having oodles of ammo left over.

TL;DR
Screw your easy mode
LRM should do only .8 DPM
you get too much ammo per ton
LEARN TO PLAY SMART

[Aim64C]

Homing on the center torso has always been a problem for LRMs.

I'm not sure if making them behave like SSRMs will really be all that great of an idea, though.

I'd actually have to see that one in the test server before I could really weigh in on it.

If that is the case, however, LRM damage might have to go up, a bit (though Streaks should already get a damage buff, if you ask me).

Here is the thing about LRMs - they are supposed to be a powerful and painful weapon. They aren't, however, suppose to strip your center torso off. Which is part of the problem with how Artemis and TAG compound, now, on the current system. The clusters spread crazy-tight and cause all kinds of damage that seems to stack on the center torso more often than not.

The fact that LRMs use absolutely ridiculous 'homing' principles (just point at target... as opposed to attempting to lead target) compounds with shoddy hit-detection to produce even more bizarre effects.

Of course, for this to really work, LRMs would have to be given more true-to-form missile behavior. Meaning their seeker would have to have a more limited aperture, and their flight characteristics would have to be more ballistic than magical. That would still give mechs the ability to evade damage.

If you made them behave identically to Streaks the way they currently go about - it'd just be a bad deal (sure, they'd "miss" - to whip right around and smack into you). Though I could be wrong. Perhaps just having them guide like they do, now, only to individual bones would be enough.

I'm a little torn on this, honestly.

I am still kind of holding on to the position that missiles should enter a "dumb" terminal phase where they 'shot-gun' out for a more true cluster behavior. If this was compounded with proportional navigation (basic target leading), then it would provide some opportunity for maneuverability while actually making missiles possible to use against lights (if greatly reduced in effectiveness) without making them auto-core madness against the Atlas.

But I could see this potentially working... but like I said - I'd need to see it in the test server (along with another few days to think about all of the potential bad things that could come of it).

[RapierE01]

But with the actual Streak hit system LRM would detonate all over the Mech like in TT. Only Artemis guided LRM should hit like the normal LRM do now.

Edited by RapierE01, 19 July 2013 - 01:12 AM.

[Aim64C]

Selfish, on 19 July 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

You're being idiotic. The reason missiles seek CTs so hard at the moment is because splash was near entirely removed. Once the hitbox issue is fixed splash will be re-implemented. This also means the bones will be adjusted so that splash is once again the main method of LRM damage. This is actually something LRM boaters clamor for, since a salvo to the side/rear of any mech suffers the black-hole issue just like a projectile boat. You expend your ammo, but your damage just disappears.

Splash doesn't belong on LRMs.

Part of the reason why not is because splash, in and of itself, cannot be properly implemented. It's in the concept of splash - where splash was counting as hits against two or more hit boxes with damage doubling in some cases. It's an inherently messy mechanic for swarms of missiles.

Plus, splash doesn't really make sense. LRMs use a form of HEAT munitions. Battlemechs use ablative armor, which would laugh in the face of barometric explosives. It was the arrival of more advanced composite armor systems that led to the removal of warheads like HESH - which were effective against hardened plate armor (causing the inside of the armor to buckle and splinter - showering internal compartments with metallic fragments...).

It's a messy system and doesn't really make sense from a technological perspective. It's better for them to improve hit detection and to fix their rocket homing codes than it is for them to try and get splash to work - as it is going to, on a fundamental level, cause damage bloating.

[Cybermech]

like most weapons it boils down to hit registration.
If hit detection for missiles was in a decent state things would be getting cored with 1 or 2 volleys.
Once your at an angle to incoming LRM's most of the damage just disappears.
There would be screaming on the forums about it.
Till then LRM's are fine'ish

[Karazyr]

so wait.. you want the fastest mechs in the game to lose the only advantage they have over lrms? no im sorry that's dumb, keep in mine 1 volly of lrms will kill a light mech, if they could suddenly auto hit that light then lights would be even less viable than they are now.

lrms are damn near perfect now, still threatening but easily avoided if you know what your doing, and clearly some people don't.

[TheGreatNoNo]

Lurms are fine right now. So I guess that means we gota **** them up some how.

[Pork Chop]

Agree completely about LRMs hitting CT way too often. Make them not hit the CT so often ... read: always... and they'd be good.

[Der Hesse]

LRMs are not OP!

And if you think LRMs are an easybutton then try to use them against capable enemys. Its very hard to make use of them there.

The ability to concentrate damage on the CT is needed for LRMs to stay useful. The fact that you cant aim them is NOT an advantage. Its a disadvantage. Most mechs die because they get cored by weapons that can be aimed. So a weapon that doesnt mainly hit CT and cant be aimed there will be useless in the current meta, like SSRMS are now (They only are still viable for lighthunting because you go for the legs on lights).

Not to mention all the other drawbacks of LRMs, especially the hardcounters and AMS. Only real Advantage for LRMs is indirect fire that comes with very high compensation through those drawbacks.

Yes, i get 4-5 kills in some matches with LRM-boats. But thats because ELO matches me with new Players. And in fact i get higher numbers with ppc-gauss builds.

[Nauht]

Aim64C, on 19 July 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

Homing on the center torso has always been a problem for LRMs.

I'm not sure if making them behave like SSRMs will really be all that great of an idea, though.

I'd actually have to see that one in the test server before I could really weigh in on it.

If that is the case, however, LRM damage might have to go up, a bit (though Streaks should already get a damage buff, if you ask me).

Here is the thing about LRMs - they are supposed to be a powerful and painful weapon. They aren't, however, suppose to strip your center torso off. Which is part of the problem with how Artemis and TAG compound, now, on the current system. The clusters spread crazy-tight and cause all kinds of damage that seems to stack on the center torso more often than not.

The fact that LRMs use absolutely ridiculous 'homing' principles (just point at target... as opposed to attempting to lead target) compounds with shoddy hit-detection to produce even more bizarre effects.

Of course, for this to really work, LRMs would have to be given more true-to-form missile behavior. Meaning their seeker would have to have a more limited aperture, and their flight characteristics would have to be more ballistic than magical. That would still give mechs the ability to evade damage.

If you made them behave identically to Streaks the way they currently go about - it'd just be a bad deal (sure, they'd "miss" - to whip right around and smack into you). Though I could be wrong. Perhaps just having them guide like they do, now, only to individual bones would be enough.

I'm a little torn on this, honestly.

I am still kind of holding on to the position that missiles should enter a "dumb" terminal phase where they 'shot-gun' out for a more true cluster behavior. If this was compounded with proportional navigation (basic target leading), then it would provide some opportunity for maneuverability while actually making missiles possible to use against lights (if greatly reduced in effectiveness) without making them auto-core madness against the Atlas.

But I could see this potentially working... but like I said - I'd need to see it in the test server (along with another few days to think about all of the potential bad things that could come of it).

Yes, sorry I should have been more in depth - this is what I meant.

Not hitting the CT constantly as they do now... as streaks did pre-patch.

[Cferre]

Nauht, on 18 July 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

And they'd be almost perfect.

The damage is now decent, the drop angles right, maybe a but more of a speed tweak cos some lights can still outrun them.

The No.1 gripe for LRMs at the moment is the CT damage and the SSRM fix, er, fixes that problem.

Don't see why PGI didn't do the same thing for LRM's as SSRMs.