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Bj-1Dc, Why?


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#1 juxstapo

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:35 AM

DC... Not DDC... my bad, can't edit the title (Yeah, shame it doesn't mount ECM)

EDIT: Oh.. Kon showed me how to fix that.

I'm not typically a completionist. I'll play a mech because it's fun or because I'm emotionally attached to it before I worry about it's performance aspects, and frequently quit on a chassis before mastery if I'm bored with it.

I also usually don't care for mediums.

So it was beyond bizarre when I bought a BJ-1 and absolutely fell in love with it.
That said, I've got my -1, -3, and -1X all tanked out, and I like every one of 'em for some reason or another. (Of course the 1X was easymode for this chassis, oh well).

But as I look through my mechbay, it's starting to bug me that there's another Blackjack listed on the market that I don't have.
So to those that own one, I wanted to ask... why? Whats the appeal? What works for it?
Mobility is the cornerstone of my 'Jack technique. Max engine, max jets, go from there.
So a chassis that mounts the smaller engine and no jets in favor of two extra energy slots seemed a 'meh' compromise to me. I wanted to ask someone experienced in this variant before I passed judgement. To all you Jack pilots out there, is the DC good for anything?

Edited by juxstapo, 10 January 2016 - 09:49 PM.


#2 Darwins Dog

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:47 AM

I think I speak for many of us when I say: couldn't tell ya, never played it. Almost every mech has one variant that is just plain worse than the rest, and for the BJ it's the 1DC. I suppose you can mount 6xML and 2xMG, but you don't have the speed or agility to make that close of a build work. You could do a BJ-1 loadout with more heatsinks, but then you lose the only "advantage" that it has. I played around in smurfy for a while with it, and never found anything that the 1 or 3 couldn't do better.

#3 Zerberus

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 06:51 AM

I bought one to master BJs and sold it immediately after reaching elite, because there was nothing reasonable it could do that couln`t be done on a 1.

#4 Lyoncet

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:11 AM

It really, truly is one of the most under-represented and indefensible variants out there. Not quite Raven 2X bad, but it has the same problem as the 2X of losing a principle advantage without gaining anything of worth in exchange. If MGs ever got decent, it could have a niche, but with only "meh" speed and no jump jets, you wouldn't even be able to reliably use them. And even then you're on the low end of the armor spectrum without the speed or small profile of a true light, so you'd probably just die instantly. That pretty much mandates you run it with Autocannons to make it not just a strictly worse 1X, and it also mandates you use at least 5 (probably all 6) energy hardpoints to make it not just a strictly worse BJ-1. With the enormous tonnage required for autocannons, you're hardly going to have room for anything bigger than a couple extra smalls, or maybe two mediums if you scrap some armor. And really, with a chassis like this, what's a couple of tiny lasers compared to jump jets? (Also your AC/2s are pretty hot, so good luck every firing those extra lasers.)

I really don't envision a set of tweaks to the game that could make it better than the alternatives. It's a shame, but at least we do have three viable and well-differentiated variants. All of which can be bought with c-bills.

#5 Xeno Phalcon

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:36 AM

Im a avid blackjack pilot, when they came out I got a X1, 1 and 1DC. 1DC is pretty much the black sheep of the bunch, terrible all around its basically a 1 model that dropped its VERY handy jump jets in favor of two more lasers, very much not worth the sacrifice.

Personally speaking the 1DC is terrible, I sold it soon a I was done with the little ******. I wasnt a big fan of the 1X either, speed is nice but I prefer the mobility offered by jump jets so sold that too(though I kept th 225 engine and use it in my BJ-1). Now I get a lot of use out of the BJ-1, but I can say that the BJ-3 is a solid mech too. Any up and comming blackjack pilots I would advise against touching the 1DC, stick to grinding with the 1,1X and 3 models.

#6 MaverickGTO

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:46 AM

I have very good luck with my 1-DC it has the highest k/d out of all my BJ's at 3.06, I have the 1, 1X and 1-DC .... the way mine is set up is a lot of fun as well

#7 juxstapo

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 07:56 AM

View Postmaverickgto, on 31 July 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

I have very good luck with my 1-DC it has the highest k/d out of all my BJ's at 3.06, I have the 1, 1X and 1-DC .... the way mine is set up is a lot of fun as well

;)

. . .

well?
We're all adither now.

#8 Darwins Dog

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:10 AM

I really hoped we'd see the BJ-2 instead of the 1-DC.

Quote

The BJ-2 upgrade of the Blackjack upgrades the 'Mech with two Diverse Optics Sunbeam ER Large Lasers and four Hovertec Streak SRM-2 launchers. This variant also upgrades the heat sinks to double strength versions.

That would have been a very different feeling chassis, and potentially pretty effective.

Edited by Darwins Dog, 31 July 2013 - 08:18 AM.


#9 MaverickGTO

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:20 AM

max armor max engine ac-20 (3-4 tons of ammo) 4 medium lasers 11DBL HS cant remember if it has ams or not

#10 Lyoncet

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:23 AM

View Postmaverickgto, on 31 July 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

max armor max engine ac-20 (3-4 tons of ammo) 4 medium lasers 11DBL HS cant remember if it has ams or not


That's the problem: you're not doing anything the BJ-1 couldn't do better.. It doesn't seem worth shelling out a couple million c-bills for the privilege of not having jets.

View PostDarwins Dog, on 31 July 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

I really hoped we'd see the BJ-2 instead of the 1-DC.

That would have been a very different feeling chassis, and potentially pretty effective.


That would have been pretty cool. Shame we didn't see it. ;)

Edited by Lyoncet, 31 July 2013 - 08:26 AM.


#11 Zerberus

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:37 AM

After all consideration, I would like to say that if you`RE going for either 2x AC10 or even a 2xAC20 jokebuild, it would be a shame to waste a bj-1 on that.

BUT: I must admit that the dakka from leveling it with dual UAC-5s and max engine was quite glorious, and that build has to forego JJs anyway to have (barely) enough ammo.... But It may well be the best use of a DC there is.... http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cb0c2d3f0b74ee4

But again, nothing the BJ-1 can`t do jsut as well or better. ;)

#12 Drakari

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:44 AM

The 1DC has a little niche if (for whatever reason) you only wanted to have one Blackjack and hate jump jets. Other than jumping, it can do any build which is possible on the BJ-3 OR the BJ-1, with the 1X being quite different. That said, unless you do 1-2 ballistic + 5-6 energy you could also do that build on a different Blackjack, and even with those special builds it would probably be better to drop one or two energies in exchange for more heatsinks or ammo, and then it could be a BJ-1 and you have the option of jump jets as well.

So the 1X and 1DC together can manage ANY weapon loadout that can be done on a Blackjack (at least the ones in the game), but considering that you need 3 to get elite you'd probably be better off with skipping the 1DC unless Gauss+5ML on a medium really appeals to you.

I would really love to see the BJ-2 though, it's nice to have more variety within a chassis so you don't have to master multiple chassis in order to use certain weapons. It would also (finally) give some additional help against lights; turret-style arms and ballistic weapons aren't really cutting it.

#13 Selfish

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:45 AM

I don't really like the Blackjack because of its slow speed, lack of armor, and inefficient engines. Only piloted the trials, saw what it could theoretically do in Smurfys, and dropped it as something I'd take up when I had everything else I wanted. With that up front, you could try something like this. You can drop the 2x MGs for 2 more DHS. Whichever you prefer. I didn't mess with the armor, just made sure its weight was represented. There's enough alpha to mess someone up, and MGs for vulturing out weapons later on in the match.

Honestly the DC should have gotten the 110 twist of the 1. Instead it gets no JJs, one of the worst twists of the variants, and a hardpoint layout that can't really be utilized well with its limited tonnage for payload.

#14 Alex Wolfe

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 08:52 AM

If you strip the arms, half the armor and put in a babby engine, you can mount 4 PPCs on it.

You can't refuse something so


Posted Image

Edited by Alex Wolfe, 31 July 2013 - 08:52 AM.


#15 Skydrive

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:17 AM

Could try this BJ-1DC. I only have the BJ-1 for Blackjacks, but anyways. This loadout runs two AC2's with four tons of ammo for long range, and two Medium Lasers in the arms for those that are starting to get close enough. Would probably be better if we had access to ER Medium Lasers. For those that get too close it possesses four Small Pulse Lasers, which is good since it has only 10 DHS's, and only nine of those are engine ones. With the Endo Steel, DHS, and the Ferro Fibrous, there was only two slots left to be filled, and more then half a ton left if the armour was maxed and the engine was an XL 235, which is why I put it down to a 225 to add a BAP so you can get a sensor read on the enemy faster so you know where to shoot your AC2's.

#16 Malsumis

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:17 AM

I've just started with my Blackjacks and currently own the 1X and the 1. I'm still not sure if I'm going to get the 3 or the 1DC to finish off the mechs but here is a setup that ONLY the 1DC can do. I may try this out as it is a LOT of punch for a medium. The 3 on the other hand I can setup similar to my 1 or my 1x and just play it the same way for leveling. So far I like the 1X the best as I have it running at 100kph with 4 medium lasers and 2 large lasers. It is a great harasser and can hill/wall hump very effectively. I'm really enjoying both of my Blackjacks at the moment and I'm sure I'll enjoy my 3rd regardless of which variant I choose.

#17 MaverickGTO

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 09:31 AM

View PostLyoncet, on 31 July 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:


That's the problem: you're not doing anything the BJ-1 couldn't do better.. It doesn't seem worth shelling out a couple million c-bills for the privilege of not having jets.



don't know I had the 1 set up the same and changed it to a gauss setup because the 1-dc was doing a lot better with the ac20 since I have all the lasers in the torso I can keep them on target a little easier on the 1 you have to run them in the arms and torso and I don't use armlock so it makes the firepower much easier to deliver .... the 1 did well with it but not nearly as well as the dc for me with the same loadout which is why I switched the 1 to a gauss loadout for a little variety as well

Edited by maverickgto, 31 July 2013 - 09:40 AM.


#18 Waking One

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:06 AM

There's no reason to buy one.

the BJ-1 and 1x are by far the best.

ghetto shadowcat ftw

#19 Draxist

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 10:58 AM

the BJ-1DC is a favorite of mine, the advantage over the other BJ's is actually its ability to be effective fire-support without Jump-jets.

this is my build I use regularly, and have never changed since finding it:

BJ-1DC

both ranged and close up punch, and decently heat efficient despite what smurfy says.

in essence, you could do this with a BJ-1, but the whole point of that chassi IS the jump-jets, so this chassi plays into a different mindset: fire-support. This mech best plays backing up a heavier chassi like a brawling assault or heavy mech.

#20 juxstapo

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 11:48 AM

So essentially, it's only useful as a BoomJack (AC/20) with more backup beam weapons than the BJ-1?

I agree about the fire support. Despite the relatively mediocre engine cap of the -1 and -3, the jump jets and seemingly quick turning radius make it a fun sniper and harasser. The -1X, like any quick laser boat, makes for an excellent surgical strike machine; however my favorite use for it was hunting lights. Sort of an anti-scout gunboat.

But the -1DC looks as if it would only be viable as a strap on for larger mechs.

...heh, if they ever do add achievements or badges of some sort I suppose you might want this one to round out your BlackJack collection (thusfar I've collected all the Jenners, but thats it)





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