19 replies to this topic

[Tankerwolf]

I tried doing a search but all I find is that they are "harder to crit". What is the difference between XL and standard engines? This is why I am confused. In my Jager I have various sizes of XL engines depending on what loadout I want to be slaughtered in. This gives me 84 hp for the center torso. If I put in a standard engine I still only have 84 hp. I guess maybe I don't understand the "harder to crit" part. Does it make that big of a difference? Thanks for the help.

[BL00D RAVEN]

with xl engines you die if you lose side torsos or CT
with standard engines you die if you lose CT

[Tankerwolf]

So a Jager with an XL engine is basically a giant walking CT? edit: would CASE in the side torso's replicate a standard engine?

Edited by Tankerwolf, 06 August 2013 - 05:57 AM.

[PlzDie]

With an XL engine you would die if either side torso is destroyed as well as the center torso, XL engines are lighter than their Standard engine counterpart. Standard engines only takes slots in the center torso while XL engines takes 3 slots in each side torso as well. You might have more armor on you center torso with a XL engine due to the difference in weight.

[BL00D RAVEN]

case will not help an xl engine

[Tankerwolf]

Interesting. Thank you for the help.

[Sasha Volkova]

To make it simple.
This is what causes you to die:

Standard engine will be destroyed if the part below is destroyed :
- Center Torso.

XL engine will be destroyed if ANY of the parts below is destroyed :
- Center Torso.
- Left Torso.
- Right Torso.

In short there is only one way to die with a standard engine but three with an xl.
This is not taking into account that you can die from being double legged. (having both your legs or your head destroyed will kill you no matter what engine you are using.)

Hope this helps.
If not or if you have more questions then feel free to ask away again.

Edit: added head as course of death - cheers Ewigan for reminding me xD

Edited by 0okami, 06 August 2013 - 06:29 AM.

[Ewigan]

And you can, of course, get headshotted.

[Sasha Volkova]

Ewigan, on 06 August 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

And you can, of course, get headshotted.

Hahahaha how could I forget that one xD

[Skydrive]

Engine crits are not in game right now, but when they are XL engines will have a higher chance of being critted then STD engines since XL's take as much space as a STD in the CT, but have three more slots taken in each side torso. Actually, you can have your engine critted right now... it just doesn't do anything really except maybe kill some of your heat sinks, though that might be only from crits on your CT. Can't remember if any of those were engine heat sinks, or heat sinks I put into engines that had heat sink slots.

Edited by Skydrive, 06 August 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[Koniving]

Oookami here answered what I was going to answer.

The basic difference in a Standard Engine and an Extra Light/Large engine is that the XL bleeds into (becomes a part of) your side torsos. You lose your left or right shoulder and you die. With a standard, you can lose both the left and right shoulders and still be alive.

In exchange for being easier to kill, the engine is lighter, which means you can use that weight to put in a more powerful engine to go faster or use that weight to put in larger weapons or ammo or additional heatsinks or even more armor if you haven't already maxed it.

Basically: Standard engine = safer. XL engine = carry more stuff!

[Koniving]

Skydrive, on 06 August 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

Actually, you can have your engine critted right now... it just doesn't do anything really except maybe kill some of your heat sinks, though that might be only from crits on your CT. Can't remember if any of those were engine heat sinks, or heat sinks I put into engines that had heat sink slots.

Engine crits result in re-rolls (FRand script) at the moment, same with blank crits and those used by structure or armor upgrades.
It was that or every engine hit affects the engine-installed extra heatsinks, but I do not believe that is the case otherwise I'd lose them a lot faster than I really do. I've never lost a heatsink in the engine, nor have I ever lost a heatsink mounted superfluous to the engine except when damaged in the center torso (implying the two slots used to describe the 'extra' space to put in heatsinks are the only two that can be crit-damaged).

If you're curious, look for a screen within your cockpit that displays heatsinks. They look like isometric boxes with slits and the screen is yellowish orange. Notice the numbers and tiny text? These indicate the location and number of heatsinks. The number in the engine will never below 10. Never. This means the engine's built-in heatsinks can't be hurt at the moment. If you do not know how to look around your cockpit, the default key is Left CTRL + moving the mouse. Zoom with Z.

Once engine crits are enabled, though, machine guns will become the most overpowered weapon in the game's history. (Engine health is 15. AC/20 health is 18. 6 small lasers and 2 MGs destroy an AC/20 instantly when the armor is gone. Since MGs do crit damage of up to 3 point something per bullet [2% chance per bullet to reach that high damage so it's not common although Stjope had something which suggested it's 2% higher chance per bullet than the old system, which makes it around uh, 6 or 7% chance if true but I can't recall the actual numbers and search isn't working], just imagine what that will do to your engine!)

Edit: Added way to check if engine heatsinks get damaged for those looking to test. Added Stjope's MG comment.

Edited by Koniving, 06 August 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[IceSerpent]

Koniving, on 06 August 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

Engine crits result in re-rolls (FRand script) at the moment, same with blank crits and those used by structure or armor upgrades.

Koniving, I don't think engine crits result in rerolls - it would cause a CT crit to keep rerolling in an infinite loop in most cases (when there's nothing else installed in CT).

[Koniving]

IceSerpent, on 06 August 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Koniving, I don't think engine crits result in rerolls - it would cause a CT crit to keep rerolling in an infinite loop in most cases (when there's nothing else installed in CT).

I'm quite certain there's a termination in there somewhere in case if nothing is there. I do know that only the "Extra" heatsinks in the engine get destroyed, never the up to 10 core heatsinks. In my post above I added a way you can check next time you start taking CT crit damage, though.

Edited by Koniving, 06 August 2013 - 07:03 AM.

[IceSerpent]

Koniving, on 06 August 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

I'm quite certain there's a termination in there somewhere in case if nothing is there. I do know that only the "Extra" heatsinks in the engine get destroyed, never the up to 10 core heatsinks. In my post above I added a way you can check next time you start taking CT crit damage, though.

I think engine crit destroys an "extra" heatsink if there is one, and does nothing at all (no reroll) otherwise. Although, come to think of it, it's possible that engine crits are indeed rerolled and termination point is on gyro crit. It doesn't really make sense to do it this way, but I wouldn't put it past PGI.

[Koniving]

I said that was a possibility. However as I've mentioned I've never lost an extra heatsink in the engine from damage to a raw side torso, only my center, and I have been running an XL hunchback a lot lately. The side torsos are typically pretty full, however, and I'll lose anything else first of course. So you're welcome to test it out.

But even in an XL 300 Dragon where all the ammo is right arm, with almost nothing in the left and right torsos, I've never lost an "extra" engine heatsink without losing my CT armor first.

[RF Greywolf]

The only question is what this is going to do exactly and if it will affect how the crit works on engines. It might make crit hits to engine mean something instead of just dead crits.

"A % of critical damage done to the internals of a component will be applied directly to the inner structure of that component."


I wish they made it more clear...

[Skydrive]

Two things Koniving. Seem to recall something back in CB with R&R, that engines could be critted, but at the time instead of being destroyed, just added to your repair bill, and the thing of me being not sure about the heat sink destruction is... I seem to vaguely recall at one point losing three heat sinks in a mech that only had two extra heat sink slots, and only the CT was stripped. This was also with DHS equipped. I very well might of had some heat sinks that were in the side torso's too, so who knows, maybe it was a bug, killing an engine heat sink since I had some in the sides, or maybe a visual error, like the time I was in my HGN-733C, and kept getting weapons till I had... I think 12 weapons, one being undefined, and three undefined torso items.

[IceSerpent]

Koniving, on 06 August 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

I said that was a possibility. However as I've mentioned I've never lost an extra heatsink in the engine from damage to a raw side torso, only my center, and I have been running an XL hunchback a lot lately. The side torsos are typically pretty full, however, and I'll lose anything else first of course. So you're welcome to test it out.

But even in an XL 300 Dragon where all the ammo is right arm, with almost nothing in the left and right torsos, I've never lost an "extra" engine heatsink without losing my CT armor first.

I don't think I've ever lost an XL engine heatsink to a side torso crit either. Maybe it simply counts those "extra" heatsinks as additional heatsinks in CT for critting purposes (i.e. having an "extra" SHS in the engine and normal SHS in CT is treated the same)...just guessing here.

[Koniving]

That is quite possible, Ice. It's also possible that Engine Left and Engine Right count as separate entities from Engine Center when it comes to XL engines. It's hard to say without opening up the source code, and that's becoming harder and harder to do lately.

I do know I'm quite disappointed that the classic closed beta "Move to this location. Flank left at this location. Defend this location," comm chatter has been removed in favor of "Beep" and "Blip." But that's a good question that I ask myself now: Why wasn't "Warning: Targeted," turned into "Beep-Beep-Beep!" or "Arrroooga!?" o.O;

-------------

It's possible, Sky. I believe I read at one point that engine crits, endo, and ferro just result in re-rolls as do blank slots. However there hasn't been a statement on that regard since last year so I could be falsely remembering it.

I do know that June May-era closed beta, we could take damage to arms or legs that resembled actuator damage.
For instance damage to a leg without armor but not destroyed would cause the mech to 'drag' or yaw slowly to one side, requiring repetitious course corrections. Damage to an arm without destroying it would result in the arm failing to fire at the "o" and instead firing off target (this could well have been an early version of the Hunchback Fire North bug, but it only affected one arm or the other never both arms and was very, very far off target which makes this unlikely).

It mostly got reported as a bug -- though there was a Betty (vid) it was not available without specific user.cfg codes, Betty had no way of telling us of the damage, and thus no one would know if an actuator got damaged. Furthermore with many issues, the coders who were going to put an actuator and engine status screen into the mech still have never gotten around to it.

I miss closed beta. The game was beautiful. The asphalt cracked when mechs fell. The Streak was a skill-based weapon requiring you to be farther than 90 meters, and to carefully time your shot as to not lose or miss your target. The Awesome and Dragon had reputations as bulldozers, the Raven 4X was the best Raven (no other Raven could knock down an Atlas, let alone Drop Kick an Assault! WOOT!), ah... fond memories. Boating was about impossible, as most had standard engines and single heatsinks, so hardly anyone had more than 40 capacity to shutdown. Now you can have up to 88.56 capacity (Victor, 27 DHS + all unlocks) with 76 or so being average (20 to 22 DHS, unlocks) before shutdown.

(Edit: May-era. The actuator thing was removed with the first patch of June).

Edited by Koniving, 06 August 2013 - 12:38 PM.