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Question For The Community On C-Bills Earnings.


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#1 Erbun

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:15 PM

So, I think everyone has seen the c-bill nerf post, and if you've flipped through it, you might remember me as one of the seemingly 5 people in the game who actually agree with the nerf. As most of my points, as well as others, as to WHY the nerf is a good thing has already been made in the other post, I will refrain from going into it again here unless asked too.

So I have a question for all those who disagree with the nerf:

How many C-Bills does the community think the average player in an average match should earn?

#2 Homeless Bill

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:38 PM

Personally, I think the extended match duration has a much bigger effect than per-match earnings. When the average match takes 50-75% longer, you're only getting in a fraction of the matches you would have in 8v8.

#3 Wurzelkobold

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:46 PM

170k c-bills for a win should be ok if you did decent dmg (more than 250) and 1-2 kills.This is without Hero bonus or premium time.

What it is now is just a joke. This was one of my best matches since 12vs12 with premium time and a hero mech. without bonus this would have been 150K c-bills^^

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Edited by Wurzelkobold, 12 August 2013 - 03:59 PM.


#4 Five by Five

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:49 PM

I haven't gone through the full thread yet (other post), but when the next ask the Dev's opens up, I hope somebody will ask this:

Pre-12v12, what was the average base (exclude Hero, Founders, Champion Mechs and premium time) C-Bills and XP earned in a match per player, per team. Then, what where those numbers for the winning team and players and for the losing team and players. What are the same set of numbers after 12v12. Then if it has indeed changed (definitely seems that way to me) was that change intentional or was it accidental?

Basically, was 12v12 a good chance to pull back the XP and C-Bill earning (in-which case we can probably assume it will stay nearly as is) or was the change based on some factors that didn't play out as planned (in-which case we can expect adjustments to be made)?


Edit: @Homeless Bill, that reminds me, the average match time should be included in the request as well, so we can work the earning and xp averages per time in match additionally.

Edited by Five by Five, 12 August 2013 - 03:51 PM.


#5 Erbun

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:15 PM

View PostWurzelkobold, on 12 August 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

170k c-bills for a win should be ok if you did decent dmg (more than 250) and 1-2 kills.This is without Hero bonus or premium time.

What it is now is just a joke. This was one of my best matches since 12vs12 with premium time and a hero mech. without bonus this would have been 150K c-bills^^

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Just to comment...

You made over 250k in under 7 minutes....

How is this a problem?

#6 Wurzelkobold

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:19 PM

View PostErbun, on 12 August 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:



Just to comment...

You made over 250k in under 7 minutes....

How is this a problem?


The problem is that this is with premium time and hero bonus. For killing 8 mechs, assist on 3 others and doing good dmg.....
Would have been 150k c-bills without bonus. and that is not very much...

#7 Erbun

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:35 PM

View PostWurzelkobold, on 12 August 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:


The problem is that this is with premium time and hero bonus. For killing 8 mechs, assist on 3 others and doing good dmg.....
Would have been 150k c-bills without bonus. and that is not very much...



So sounds like a valid reason to buy premium time.

Seriously. 150k isn't nothing to shake a stick at.

Now, I will comment that I think some prices should be changed and adjusted, but mech prices I think are about perfect. Especially considering we are only playing part of the meta right now. This number of cbills is only going to go up, even if only slightly.

#8 Wurzelkobold

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:47 PM

View PostErbun, on 12 August 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:


So sounds like a valid reason to buy premium time.

and that is the only reason for the nerf..... do you see what they are doing? GREED!!!!

#9 Huntrava

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:02 PM

I don't mind the nerf. But I can't figure out why they're tweaking CBills when other elements of the game are completely broken. They'll have to come back and tweak CBills again after they've corrected the mechanical issues.

#10 Erbun

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:37 PM

View PostWurzelkobold, on 12 August 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

and that is the only reason for the nerf..... do you see what they are doing? GREED!!!!



Haha it's not greed, it's called trying to pay bills and salaries, not to mention the money they need to invest in expansion and upgrading, making the game better.

Working to increase profits is not greed, it's called good business.

Besides, isn't the fact that your upset because now you can't buy mechs like people buy smokes just greed as well?

#11 Five by Five

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 06:47 PM

View PostErbun, on 12 August 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

So sounds like a valid reason to buy premium time.

View PostErbun, on 12 August 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

..., it's called trying to pay bills and salaries, not to mention the money they need to invest in expansion and upgrading, making the game better.

Working to increase profits is not greed, it's called good business.


Okay, .... I'll give you that.

And I'll agree with that other one too.

Soooo..... Forget about my complaints about reduced cbill earnings. The new numbers are just fine. But... Premium Time bonus and Hero and Champion Mech bonues (Founders and Pheonix Mechs included) are too low and now need to be boosted.

#12 JeffGoldblum

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:04 PM

150k for a decent game (250+ damage and 2 kills) and a win.

#13 Erbun

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 07:18 PM

View PostFive by Five, on 12 August 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:


Okay, .... I'll give you that.

And I'll agree with that other one too.

Soooo..... Forget about my complaints about reduced cbill earnings. The new numbers are just fine. But... Premium Time bonus and Hero and Champion Mech bonues (Founders and Pheonix Mechs included) are too low and now need to be boosted.



I won't disagree that premium bonuses couldn't stand a boost.

people may not like the 'Pay to win faster" model, but a programmers gotta eat!

#14 M0rpHeu5

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 09:18 PM

I beleave that For the matchies needed to get all the basics of the mech you should earn 6mil just becouse you need to buy this mech 2 more times and 6mil is the midle between 1,5mil (commando) and 13,5mil(AS7-k). So if a player need 30 games for that the average according to me should be 200k.

#15 Jigabachi

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 04:51 AM

View PostErbun, on 12 August 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Working to increase profits is not greed, it's called good business.

Ouch...
You probably should erase that "good".


@ topic: As a beginner who needs to earn 3-5mil to buy a new mech, the nerf wasn't THAT bad... only annoying. Maybe it will get more annoying once I get other mechs, I don't know.
But what I don't like at all is the fact that my performance/effort doesn't get rewarded properly.
The difference between a bad (basically dying fast with almost no dmg/support) and a good match (ok dmg/support) for me is around 20% credits. So... what is my motivation to give my best in every match?

#16 Wurzelkobold

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:49 AM

View PostErbun, on 12 August 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:


Working to increase profits is not greed, it's called good business.

Besides, isn't the fact that your upset because now you can't buy mechs like people buy smokes just greed as well?

No the reason is that i feel robbed and betrayed because i invested money in premium time to get more c-bills and now i get less than before the nerf without premium. I know i would get much less without premium now but thats not the point.

Edited by Wurzelkobold, 13 August 2013 - 05:50 AM.


#17 Serapth

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:04 AM

View PostErbun, on 12 August 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:



Working to increase profits is not greed, it's called good business.



Working to increase profits *CAN* be good business. In this case, I highly doubt it is. If their goal is acquire new users, this nerf is bad business. If they lose more paying customers than they convert to people buying premium time, this is bad business. Shorting yourself for short term profits at the cost of long term viability is bad business, unless of course you know you aren't going to be around much longer.

The fact that this nerf actually effects premium time equally as much, that's just epically stupid business.

#18 Serapth

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:20 AM

View PostJigabachi, on 13 August 2013 - 04:51 AM, said:

Ouch...
You probably should erase that "good".


@ topic: As a beginner who needs to earn 3-5mil to buy a new mech, the nerf wasn't THAT bad... only annoying. Maybe it will get more annoying once I get other mechs, I don't know.
But what I don't like at all is the fact that my performance/effort doesn't get rewarded properly.
The difference between a bad (basically dying fast with almost no dmg/support) and a good match (ok dmg/support) for me is around 20% credits. So... what is my motivation to give my best in every match?



Here's the thing, you are a beginner, so please don't take this as an insult.

The cost of a *viable* mech is nowhere near 3-5 million, especially if you want to be one of those people consistently making 130K a match.

That's the thing with this game, PGI massively loaded it against new players, which is somewhat insane. Taking the stock mech into a match is like fighting with a hand and foot tied behind your back. Generally every mech needs 3 or 4 million in cbills of customization to be on an even footing with the other mechs out there. Endo Steel and Double Heat sinks generally allow some mechs to almost DOUBLE their weapon load while lowering heat. Against stock its a brutal mismatch.

But that's not even the half of it... you actually need base (mech price + 3 mil cbills )x3 to actually be on an even footing. The difference between a stock mech and an elite one is downright stupid... the 2x basic modifier is huge, making your mech statistically 30-40% superior to a new players mech, before we even talk about the customization costs.


So frankly, it's pretty safe to say most veterans are fielding mechs that are literally twice as good as the stock mech you are grinding for.

What PGI should have done is given new players a choice of a non-upgradable, but fully upgraded/elited medium or heavy mech to start with. Then they start the game on an even footing with veteran players, except of course skill. Then when they move on to another mech, then they have to go through the grind. At least at this point they aren't completely ruined on the game because they've spent the last 50 matches riding around on the shortbus, while everyone else has a Ferrari or Porsche.


As to cbill comments, if you see Legendary Founder below their name, disregard pretty much everything they have to say about the economy in game ( me included ). Each of us started with at least 20K MC and what was it... 10M CBills? Then got another influx of 7M+ cbills when the newbie bonus was added. Simply put, we have never experienced being a newbie in a complete **** mech.




Now to completely contradict my last statement, I found the cbill levels in the previous patch just about perfect. Now it feels less fun and more like a grind. What i've found is, if you have an OK match, the nerf isn't so bad. If I play OKish... 300-400 damage and a kill on the winning team, I make pretty close to what I used to make... maybe 100-120K cbills, where I used to make say, 140K in that scenario. However, if I rock the joint, kill 6-8 enemy mechs I make like... 150K. Where you used to make 250-300 for a round like that.

#19 Bad Andy

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 07:54 AM

to be honest i don't think PGI will make more money this way because most players spend the most of their c bills on mech bays and if you have less c bills to buy new mechs you buy less bays...

#20 Erbun

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 02:32 PM

@Serapeth

That's the thing, like I've mentioned before, I think there should be some tuning in the costs of upgrades and parts, but comparing simply the c-bill return to the cost of basic mech chassis, I think it's about spot on.

Also, I disagree that one must invest millions of c-bills into a default mech chassis to become "competitive". That may well be so if going up against some of the absolutely amazing pilots this game has, but most pilots are easily killable with a base chassis. In fact, most of the mechs I pilot have 0 modifications on them, as they are only being used for leveling certain other mechs.

I think the real problem is we're only playing part of the game. Throw in bonuses for community warfare and other tid bits that are around the corner, adjust the prices of upgrades and non mech parts, and I think it will match a pretty good balance.

I still can't see why someone thinks they should be able to play this game casually and be able to afford 20+ mechs with full upgrades?!





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