60 replies to this topic

[D1al T0ne]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 04 September 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

That's why if you're using PPCs you can just use a mixed loadout that has some close range weaponry so you can shoot at little hip hugging Medium brawlers at close range.

Whoa, look at that, mixed loadouts. Who'd a thunk it.

Uhhhh, no matter how you try to spin it, I'm totally cool with weapon systems that can't hurt me while I'm face hugging noobs in my 9ML hunchie. Mixed weapons or not, it's one weapon system less to worry about.

Mount those suckers up! Fits into my plans quite nicely.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

D1al T0ne, on 04 September 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Uhhhh, no matter how you try to spin it, I'm totally cool with weapon systems that can't hurt me while I'm face hugging noobs in my 9ML hunchie. Mixed weapons or not, it's one weapon system less to worry about.

Mount those suckers up! Fits into my plans quite nicely.

A Sniper is supposed to be punished at close range. I welcome all hip huggers to zerg down a sniper.
But PPCs are still pretty decent at their intended range, which is mid range

[D1al T0ne]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 04 September 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

A Sniper is supposed to be punished at close range. I welcome all hip huggers to zerg down a sniper.
But PPCs are still pretty decent at their intended range, which is mid range

Sure, except an LL's range isn't all that much less, it makes immediate contact with its target at all ranges, has massively less HPS, only slightly less DPS, and will still shoot the face off of a hip hugger.

PPC's are worth less than their resale value now if you take all of the above into consideration. But like I said, I have no problems with people using them.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

D1al T0ne, on 04 September 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Sure, except an LL's range isn't all that much less, it makes immediate contact with its target at all ranges, has massively less HPS, only slightly less DPS, and will still shoot the face off of a hip hugger.

PPC's are worth less than their resale value now if you take all of the above into consideration. But like I said, I have no problems with people using them.

PPCs allow you to fire and forget, where LLs require you keep your aim steady for the entire duration.

I really think people are discrediting the PPC a little too much now (funny, I know), but I think that the LL and PPC both have their intended roles and are different enough now that I could understand why one person chose one or chose the other.

To each their own, I guess.

[D1al T0ne]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 04 September 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

PPCs allow you to fire and forget, where LLs require you keep your aim steady for the entire duration.

I really think people are discrediting the PPC a little too much now (funny, I know), but I think that the LL and PPC both have their intended roles and are different enough now that I could understand why one person chose one or chose the other.

To each their own, I guess.

That's exactly where I would like to see this game end up "To each their own". There's nothing worse than a game where something is absolutely definitely the best setup and anyone not using it is terrible.

I spectate other people playing their Jager's (My fav mech in the game) with setups I would never feel comfortable using in a million years, but they're doing really well and killing lots of things, and that's just... awesome.

I'm not saying no one should ever use PPC's, I'm just saying that from where I stand, they don't have any redeeming qualities. I prefer a weapon that will hit at any range I fire it, but that's just my playstyle.

Edited by D1al T0ne, 04 September 2013 - 09:11 PM.

[Flyby215]

I love the PPC changes; mainly because it in combination with the Guass charge has effectively removed the PPC/Guass combo (which imo was ruining the game).

It actually feels kind of weird to me... but I'm finding the ERPPC is more useful now than it has ever been before. I think it's because the PPC/Guass combos are gone, and so packing just one or two ERPPCs can now compete in the sniping field, and as the range closes having only 1 ERPPC alone doesn't generate overly much heat, and there's tonnage left over for backup weapons.

Then again, I've always run hybrid builds so maybe I'm just used to it.

[Afro Samurai]

I see no difference in performance between my STK-3F with 5 LLs and STK-3H with 2 PPCs and 2 LPLs. They require slightly different playstyles but deal scary damage when used right. I enjoy playing both of them.


You just can't mount more than 2 PPCs or 1 ER PPC viably or you get too hot. It is fine by me, I always felt that sniper weapons should be used to wear off the opponent before you finish him off in mid range (with help of other weapons & teammates), not kill him outright at 900m range.
Also ER LL should become a viable option now.


Can't say much about Gauss though, didn't use it before patch and I won't do it in future (all ballistic weapons annoy me, actually).


Good change PGI, finally.

[Kahoumono]

The heat increase was justified, the decrease in speed made them inferior as a long range weapon. And I'll never understand why the vanilla PPC has the min range but not the ER.

[MrZakalwe]

PPCs are now a bad choice at all ranges.

ERPPCs still work very well on jump snipers.

Just replace your PPCs with LLs as the roles overlap heavily.

[Magna Canus]

The PPC is still a great weapon, especially when you compare it to what people say they are switching to because "PPC is destroyed".

For comparable damage you need 2 MLas which has 1/4 the range and 1 second "full damage delivery time", and the DPS is still doubble.

LLas has comparable damage, but again the 1 second delivery time and a slightly lesser range. PPC DPS is still higher here.

Sarna.net describes the PPC as an energy weapon with quasi-ballistic qualities: you are shooting particles at somebody. In order to not damage your own mech while firing the weapon they had a built in inhibitor field that messed with their damage within 90m. "Brave piolots" could shut it off, but risked bad side effects. I guess the difference between "no damage under 90m" and "reduced damage" might come from programming limitations, I dont know, but it does make back-up weapons and "mixed loadouts" a necessity which I think is great.

ERPPC traded off the minimum range and longer range for higher heat, which you could explain with the added background-tech you need to eliminate the disruption the "standard PPC" caused PLUS the extra required energy to project the particles even further.

Everyone keeps on forgetting one of the MAJOR features of the PPC/ERPPC that makes it a very attractive weapon: it can disrupt ECM!!! This is the only weapon group besides TAG (that does NO DAMAGE) that can do this.

Just because the PPC is no longer the back bone of the "mega-alpha-kill-me-from-1000m" sniper array you can shoot 3 to 4 times in a row before you overheat builds does not make it useless. It still has a very attractive utility effect, and it still has the "fire and forget" damage capacity that Lasers dont have that allows you to torso-twist and disperse damage in a face-off.

The PPC has become a weapon you bring allong in case you need to shut down ECM for spotting or plain showing your team where the enemy is on the mini-map. If you suck bad enough to not be able to stay out beyond or get beyond 91m of your enemy in a brawl, etc. and did not have the sense to plan for the eventuality of brawlers and lights getting in your face, you have no business boating PPCs now.

These updates have placed PPCs into a specific niche for a specific purpose/role and taken it out of the "must have because otherwise I will suck" catagory. This is a very good thing and I hope that all of the weapons that are not already in that state get there soon. Every weapons should have a purpose, its own advantages, and its own disadvantages.

I like the idea that Lasers work better on moving targets because if you track them you get all or some damage through, not just hit or miss like you would with a PPC. I also like the idea of the PPC being good at sniping stationary targets and less so with moving targets. It gives each weapon type a specific purpose/role.

[Alistair Winter]

I don't mind the recent change, except that it renders the AWS-8Q and 9M stock builds useless.

As soon as the AWS gets reduced heat from PPCs, I'm perfectly happy with the PPC-situation.

I always thought it should be a niche weapon.

[topgun505]

My 2x ERPPC BJ-3 seems to be doing just fine post-change. One game had 7 kills and 500+ damage. Use it as it's meant to be used. If you're a sniper then have a brawler buddy ahead of you screening. The only thing the change did was increase the amount of time between volleys. On the hottest map this equates to around 12 seconds. Are you going to win vs a face hugger? Of course not. You aren't supposed to. Your team should be preventing them from getting in your face in the first place. If you are really worried about it then don't take multiple sniper weapons and take a mixed loadout.

Edited by topgun505, 05 September 2013 - 05:39 AM.

[Ngamok]

SilentWolff, on 04 September 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

PPC's may be viable, but ER PPC's certainly arent.

Not true. I use them on two of my Dragon builds, the 1N and 1C that have the left torso cockpit height mounts. They are great for peaking around left corners and shooting people 1300 meters out.

Edit: I used LLs more than I did PPCs on most of my mechs so this change doesn't affect me as much. Though I have not played my HM or 732 since those carry the Gauss + PPC/LL mox combos.

Edited by Ngamok, 05 September 2013 - 06:17 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Nope, its 3 PPC's, 3 ER PPC's, or 4 PPC's on an Awesome or nothing at all. Unfortunately that's not possible, because Awesome's are not allowed to have fun.

The excuse that one needs to "strip the stock loadout on Awesome, because reasons" is a non-dead-answer to me.

[Mizore]

All in all I'd say I'm quite fine with the patch, but I think ER-PPCs could use a slight heat buff again from 15 heat to 14 heat.
At least in a Awesome-9M with 3x ER-PPC it's really difficult to perform well, especially when you are forced to close combat, then you are in a major disadvantage.

There's no discussion that there should be a disadvantage when you are forced to close combat as a sniper, but I think the disadvantage is a little too big at the moment.

[Castiel88]

Don't see why they don't just remove ppcs entirely, been patched so many times and people still won't be happy

[Orzorn]

PPCs are just about where they need to be right now. I say this as someone who had to play the jump sniping meta for many months now with my Cataphract.

I still managed to put out great damage with my 2 ERPPC/ Gauss Cataphract. The difference was how difficult is was to jump snipe, and how long I could keep firing.

Overall, its way, way more balanced. Sniping is far, far from dead. Its still kicking and still powerful, its just much more balanced.

[Almond Brown]

Viktor Drake, on 04 September 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Totally removed them from all my mechs and I ONLY ran mixed use builds, not sniper cheese. The heat totally ruined them in my opinion. I much perfer being able to switch out LL and PPC and have them do the same overall job just with different mechanics than to be forced to use LLs for every mixed build that needs a heavy energy weapon. Now instead of a few mechs with PPCs, a Few with ER PPCs and a few with LLs, all I got is the same old boring build on every mech. YeeHaw thank you PGI.

"Forced to". Classic.

Sadly, there is no way around that particular problem when always "Cherry Picking" what you deem as the "best" from Patch to Patch.

Luckily, not everyone always "Cherry Picks" after every Patch and having an available variety of weapon, actually adds to the over-all game play.

[Pale Jackal]

The PPC needed to do 0 damage within 90 meters because if the damage reduction scales with distance, then for anything 540m or closer, the PPC is just superior to the ERPPC now that the ERPPC has a heat of 15. A light 60m away would still take 6.66 damage with a PPC for 10 heat, as opposed to 10 damage and 15 heat with an ERPPC.

The 90m scaling damage reduction wasn't much of a disadvantage on normal PPCs previously, and now that the heat difference is even greater between the two PPC types, this was definitely required.

Edited by Pale Jackal, 05 September 2013 - 07:29 AM.

[Almond Brown]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 04 September 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

That's why if you're using PPCs you can just use a mixed loadout that has some close range weaponry so you can shoot at little hip hugging Medium brawlers at close range.

Whoa, look at that, mixed loadouts. Who'd a thunk it.

And one might even throw in a couple of them things called "Teammates" to help with that/those pest(s). LOL

Team work? Who'd a thunk it, eh!