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Ferro-Fibrous Improvement


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Poll: Ferro-Fibrous Improvement (217 member(s) have cast votes)

Ferro-Fibrous Armor should increase max armor per location as described below

  1. Yes (148 votes [68.20%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 68.20%

  2. No (69 votes [31.80%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 31.80%

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#1 Griffinhawk

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 10:24 AM

I think we can all universally agree FF sucks. It sucked in the TT and sucks now. I was thinking how about something I would like. Let's make ferro-fibrous armor increase the max amount of armor in each location by 12% as well as the standard weight reduction. This would make it so there is an actual choice to be made between FF and endo.

Edited by Griffinhawk, 12 September 2013 - 12:01 PM.


#2 RandomLurker

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:41 PM

This actually makes sense.

Yay for good ideas.

#3 Griffinhawk

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 06:00 PM

After looking at this more in depth it looks like it would be a nice addition. While not Cannon, it does add a usefulness to FF that brings it closer to Endo Steel in terms of viability. For 14 critical slots (7 for Clan) It doesn't unbalance the armor and adds a "tank" aspect giving players the option of being a little tougher than the average mech of their type. Broken down, here's the short of it:

Ferro Fibrous Armor (Inner Sphere)
  • Critical Slots: 14
  • Weight: +12% armor pts per ton of armor.
  • Additional: Increases maximum armor limit for each individual location by 12% (except for the Head)
Here's a quick table of what the new values would look like for various mechs.

Posted Image

#4 Dirus Nigh

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 06:39 PM

I like how you suggest giving a 12% bonus by individual location. While over all it is a large jump, but when spread across locations its a minor boost that is noticeable not over barring. Also in order to get the extra 12% armor the player is using some of the weight that was saved by using this armor type.

#5 RandomLurker

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 08:07 PM

I guess I can explain a bit more.

FF sucks, and as OP, did in the tabletop as well. The only reasons it was (or still is) ever used is on light mechs or Clan mechs with lots of spare critical space. The actual weight bonus it provides is trivial for 14 slots, adding up to only 2 or 3 tons even on heavier mechs.

12% (or 10 or 15, etc) is not overpowered when spread accross all sections the way Btech does. This change simultaneously makes FF useful in it's niche and addresses alpha gameplay. It should be done.

#6 Applejack

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:19 AM

After some thorough 'labbing, FF is the first thing I drop, even on light 'mechs. I approve of this adjustment.

#7 Modo44

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 12:25 AM

12% more armor takes the mech up one weight class. That is not a small boost, that is huge. It would make the borderline builds stupidly weak by comparison.

#8 Khobai

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:32 AM

Its a bad idea. Its basically a straight up buff to Light mechs. Light mechs are already more survivable than assaults and light mechs are the only mechs that use ferrofibrous regularly. Mediums and heavies only use it in specific builds, but its not that common.

If you want to buff FF, buff it in a way that assault mechs can use it too.

#9 SirLankyIII

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 01:38 AM

Lately I've been thinking another option might be to increase the weight reduction to 20% to match the clan value, and/or reduce the number of crit slots it takes up by 2-4. This way it's not as effective for weight reduction as endo steel is, but it gives you those extra extra tonnes you're left with that can't be used due to a lack of crit slots.

#10 Griffinhawk

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:33 AM

I just wanted to respond to the concerns you have.

Regarding moving up a weight class. It actually puts the armor value at around the value of an Non-FF mech 10 tons heavier. At the cost of either Endo Steel weight which reduces available tonnage for weapons, ammo, engines, and equipment or if you keep endo, you lose another 14 slots. This isn't a free armor boost option. You would have to sacrifice something for it.

Regarding light mech buff. I don't think 2-5 pts more armor is a buff. Especially with hit detection improvements. Right now I consider lights to be easy kills and actively encourage them to attack me by pretending to be a missile boat, etc. Surviving one more medium laser isn't a bad thing.
Edit: something else to consider. Most lights are already using FF for weight savings. To get improved durability they will have to pay with a smaller engine or less weapons/ammo. I think its still a great option for all mechs.

Another option is to either drop the bonus 12% per ton of armor pts so that you would need to use up 12% more tons to max your armor. There are two variables that can be tweaked. The % armor per section over standard and the % of "extra" armor per ton that FF currently does.

Edited by Griffinhawk, 12 September 2013 - 09:48 AM.


#11 SaJeel

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 09:47 AM

something def needs to be done, and this is a fine idea, better than nothing for sure

#12 RandomLurker

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 10:42 AM

Remember that you still have to pay the weight cost for that extra armor. It's not a free buff.

Also, Assaults and heavies get more benefit then lights. 12% of 60 is a lot more then 12% of 20. That's the difference between one Streak missile and full PPC blast. Lights certainly don't need that kind of buff, but this won't make all that much difference compared to what it can do for heavier mechs.

Unrelated, light mechs are easy enough to counter if you know how, and have the right weapons for it. Lasers and streaks, and more importantly good awareness of your teammates (don't get singled out) will do more for countering light mechs then any game mechanic.

#13 Kristina Sarah McEvedy

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:15 PM

I approve of this suggestion.

For those concerned about Light/Mediums getting far too much of an advantage out of this, how about a compromise? What if the % increase scales with true Mech Weight Class? Lights get the weakest % and moving up to Assaults which get the full armour bonus? In this way, Light and Mediums would primarily just use FF to save a little bit of weight more-so than using it for the increased armour, while Heavies and Assaults would use it less for saving weight and more for added durability.

#14 Kraven Kor

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:35 PM

Just make armor max based on armor weight not amount.

FF then gives more potential max armor.

*poof* Done.

You can thank me later.

#15 General Taskeen

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 02:36 PM

From a programming perspective, it will only make sense if the armor section itself is simply given a damage reduction "bonus" of say 12% per point of armor.

Technically that is the same thing, but it would save the Devs a headache of showing armor values like 242/232 or making it so it switches the max armor value. A simple damage reduction bonus is easier to program.

Currently this exists in some cases on hitboxes, like missile doors that receive damage reduction bonus. So it is entirely possible for them to do.

Edited by General Taskeen, 12 September 2013 - 02:37 PM.


#16 Vincian

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:07 PM

Good idea.

#17 Infernal Combustifier

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 03:33 PM

First of all great idea.

Personally I would prefer FF to lighten the armour by let's say 20% and decrease max armour by 10%.

I know that's not consistent with lore and previous games so good luck on that...

Your idea is very good though, maybe a bit ambitious armour bonus, capping it based on weight-class might solve that though.

#18 Griffinhawk

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:30 PM

I think the main reason why this isn't a part of the TT rules is because the TT game is based on randomized hit locations. So generally a 12% boost would be a major increase in mech survival. In MWO however, mech death occurs because of pinpoint damage to the torsos 90% of the time (10% leg destruction). So instead of grinding through another 70 pts of armor on an Atlas, it's really only going to be an extra 15-25 depending on your aim. That's two or three PPC hits, which I think would be a nice change as the pinpoint damage causes mechs to drop quickly as it is.

#19 Stormwolf

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 01:09 AM

Gotta say no here, FF exists as a alternate weight saver to endo and XL when you don't have access to factory level facilities (which most people aren't supposed to have anyway).

The game is already dumbed down way too much, many people still don't understand why we have outdated technologies like SHS for instance.

I'd much rather that the devs limit customization to the facilities that the player has access to, that way the promised Community Warfare would be able to stress the importance of holding planets like Irian. That planet for instance has 4 manufacturing centres, people without access to such a planet would still be able to lower weight at a reduced rate with FF as a viable alternative.

#20 Xanquil

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 02:54 AM

Sorry I have to say no also, for one major reason The Clans. If you buff FF you just make almost all clan mechs that much better, That is something we do not need.





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