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Seismic Counter?


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#1 Wascot

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:43 PM

I've been ruminating over whether to spend my hard earned GXP on Seismic Sensor, but I just can't bring myself to buy what is essentially a free 180/250m wallhack. I like knowing that if I fall asleep checking my six, some mech can get a nice shot off of my juicy rear torso and more than likely kill me. It keeps me on my toes and punishes me for camping in one spot too long.

So my idea is to have a module that acts sort of like a Seismic Dampener. Equipping the module reduces the range of seismic sensor by 50/80% so that would be 90/125m for the first level, and 145/200m when fully upgraded. That would leave Seismic Sensor with an effective range of 90/125m when facing a level one dampener, and 35/50m when facing a fully upgraded dampener.

To balance such a module, you can only equip either the sensor or the dampener, not both. This would mean that those who choose not to use the sensor will be almost invisible from yours so long as they obey the maximum ranges. At the same time, those who use the dampener cannot rely on the sensor.

I know this idea will receive a lot of backlash as there will be many people against losing such a blatant upgrade. All this module will do is equalize the playing field between those who want a wallhack and those who don't. Those who choose not to use such a feature should not be penalized and instead have a means of counteracting the upgrade with one of their own. Those with a playstyle that is hard-countered by sensor should have their own module to mitigate it's effects.

I'm simply of the opinion that a module providing a free 180/250m buffer between you and the enemy should have a counter of its own. It balances out the two modules so that no one gets a benefit if both are opposing each other. The dampener itself doesn't provide any bonuses if the enemy doesn't have a sensor, while the sensor is still working as intended unless the entire enemy team is using the dampener. As for whether this is canon or not, I don't really care if this is MW/BT canon as all I want is for the game to be fair.

A straight up upgrade (#1 module) becomes more situational...isn't that a good thing?

So to sum things up:

Seismic Dampener
- 7,500 GXP or 10,000 GXP
- 50% Range Reduction
- Reduces range of Seismic Sensor to 90m and Advanced Seismic Sensor to 125m
- Cannot equip Seismic Sensor while using Seismic Dampener

Advanced Seismic Dampener
- 10,000 GXP or 15,000 GXP
- Automatically upgrades all Seismic Dampeners
- Increases Range Reduction to 80%
- Reduces range of Seismic Sensor to 35m and Advanced Seismic Sensor to 50m
- Cannot equip Seismic Sensor while using Seismic Dampener

Flame on?

#2 Modo44

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:34 PM

No. There already is a Seismic Sensor counter: Stop or jump.

#3 Johnny Reb

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 11:38 PM

Hey, best mod in the game you feel bad then don't buy but we use it!

#4 Wascot

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 12:11 AM

View PostModo44, on 19 September 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

No. There already is a Seismic Sensor counter: Stop or jump.

Stop and you're an easy shot. All things that go up must come down...eventually. How in the hell is that a counter to seismic?

View PostJohnny Reb, on 19 September 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

Hey, best mod in the game you feel bad then don't buy but we use it!

And this sums up why I want a counter to seismic. There's a reason why it's the best module in the game and there should be a suitable counter for it. Why must modules be exempt from balancing when it's a blatant upgrade with no downside whatsoever? At least cool shot costs cbills to use...now that I think about it that wouldn't be a bad downside to seismic. You get 'x' seconds of sweep per 5k cbills.

And don't get me wrong. I'm not dumb enough to purposely gimp myself by not using seismic. If it remains the best mod (for obvious reasons) then I'll get it. Until then I'll keep on trying to better myself at moving around <250m to avoid any potential sensors.

#5 Gaan Cathal

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 12:12 AM

Honestly, I'd swap from Seismic to this if it was an option. No question. Much more fun taking away other people's crutches than just levelling the playing field by having the same crutch handy.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 20 September 2013 - 12:13 AM.


#6 Modo44

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 12:26 AM

View PostWascot, on 20 September 2013 - 12:11 AM, said:

Stop and you're an easy shot. All things that go up must come down...eventually. How in the hell is that a counter to seismic

A direct one: It does not show you when in the air or stationary.

Good light pilots have learned to start (and often end) the jump outside of the enemy with Seismic, thereby completely fooling it. If you have a high-alpha cheese build, stopping in good locations will score you free kills -- especially on people with Seismic, who think nothing is in front of them/around a corner. Quit whining, learn to play.

#7 Gideon Grey

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:08 AM

Pedantic pet peeve from an Engineer:

Damper. Not Dampener.

Take a rubber ball, bounce it. Stop it from bouncing. Damped.

Take a rubber ball, bounce it. Pour water on it. Dampened.

As for the actual point. Some limited counter would fine. I'd rather they just revamp seismic a bit instead. Should be dependent on relative mass and speed of both target and detecting mechs. Should have better range when detector is stationary. Detect larger mechs from further. Have reduced range base on size and speed of detector (noise).

#8 Shae Starfyre

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:22 AM

I have a feeling they will be implementing a deployable that could thump the ground or otherwise act as a decoy.

#9 Syllogy

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:30 AM

The only counter to Seismic Sensors is to be very very quiet.

Presenting: Bunny Slippers

Posted Image



#10 Dexter Herbivore

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:36 AM

View PostAphoticus, on 20 September 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

I have a feeling they will be implementing a deployable that could thump the ground or otherwise act as a decoy.


Remember: Walk without rhythm and we won't attract the worm (errrr.... mech) . It will go to the thumper.

#11 Thomas Dziegielewski

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:30 AM

Ya I want to "nerf" it as well but only for realism sake...lol


I like the dampeners, they are in our backlog somewhere.

And also the idea was suggested that when you are moving you should not get as much or any seismic information as your get the information from your legs. So the faster you are going the less seismic info you should get or it is overshadowed by your own seismic event.

And certain weapon fire should also cause a seismic event.


To balance it out we can release some thing that will make the seismic detector better. Range, size of seismic event etc.


And ya deployable/shootable seismic detectors.

#12 Syllogy

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:34 AM

View PostThomas Dziegielewski, on 20 September 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Ya I want to "nerf" it as well but only for realism sake...lol

I like the dampeners, they are in our backlog somewhere.

And also the idea was suggested that when you are moving you should not get as much or any seismic information as your get the information from your legs. So the faster you are going the less seismic info you should get or it is overshadowed by your own seismic event.

And certain weapon fire should also cause a seismic event.

To balance it out we can release some thing that will make the seismic detector better. Range, size of seismic event etc.

And ya deployable/shootable seismic detectors.


What if Seismic made a difference based on speed and weightclass?

A Light Mech at a walk (<60% top speed) might not be detected until ~100m, whereas an Assault Mech at a full run might be detected @ 250m+?

#13 Heinreich

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:38 AM

How about requiring BAP in the legs to use it (make the module an upgrade to BAP), and it only works if you're below a certain speed? This should still make it useful while giving it an actual drawback to balance it out.

#14 ShadowSpirit

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:41 AM

View PostThomas Dziegielewski, on 20 September 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Ya I want to "nerf" it as well but only for realism sake...lol I like the dampeners, they are in our backlog somewhere. And also the idea was suggested that when you are moving you should not get as much or any seismic information as your get the information from your legs. So the faster you are going the less seismic info you should get or it is overshadowed by your own seismic event. And certain weapon fire should also cause a seismic event. To balance it out we can release some thing that will make the seismic detector better. Range, size of seismic event etc. And ya deployable/shootable seismic detectors.


If seismic is to exist, as I would prefer it did not, then i think that is a good middle ground. To use seismic you must be standing still. We need more conditional modules rather than "always on" because conditional adds a better strategic element to the game where as always on tends to be a crutch to lean on.

Edited by ShadowSpirit, 20 September 2013 - 08:42 AM.


#15 Hythos

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:46 AM

Seismic Sensors are slightly counter-intuitive for several reasons... the greatest, is that it's electronics-mounted, vs a deploy-able.

The most intuitive change would be to make it that - a Deployable mechanism that would be planted in the ground. However, I'd expect they haven't done / won't do it, because it too closely parallels and over-laps with the UAV, which is largely superior.

Though weapon-impact on the ground should also slightly set it off.




** Edit - LOL! Somehow, I totally missed Tom's post.... GG.

Edited by Hythos, 20 September 2013 - 08:50 AM.


#16 Thomas Dziegielewski

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:49 AM

View PostHythos, on 20 September 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Seismic Sensors are slightly counter-intuitive for several reasons... the greatest, is that it's electronics-mounted, vs a deploy-able.

The most intuitive change would be to make it that - a Deployable mechanism that would be planted in the ground. However, I'd expect they haven't done / won't do it, because it too closely parallels and over-laps with the UAV, which is largely superior.

** Edit - LOL! Somehow, I totally missed Tom's post.... GG.




It'd just give it an infinite lifetime and it would be shootable. Hell maybe even make it beep or show up on battlegrid if you have a BAP and are within BAP's range etc.

#17 Deathlike

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:47 AM

So... I'll be using both Adv. Seismic Sensor AND Adv. Seismic Dampener in a future patch.

Great, I guess I have some use for the GXP I've been collecting since... forever.

#18 Gideon Grey

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:48 AM

View PostThomas Dziegielewski, on 20 September 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

I like the dampeners, they are in our backlog somewhere.



Now your just messing with me.

Damper.

Damper Damper Damper.

#19 Tweaks

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:57 AM

I don't see how you could completely counter the seismic vibrations of a 20+ tons 'Mech made of metal with a simple electronic module.

#20 Biglead

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:03 AM

"Aliens"





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