75 replies to this topic

[ArmandTulsen]

This would solve a lot of problems with the lights and not make them agents of destruction who zip across the battlefield with near impunity.

From a "balance" perspective, it's pretty freaking LOL that 2-3 Jenners can tear an Atlas a big new one. I still see that scrap happen often.

Assault mechs shouldn't be food for lights. lol...

[DocBach]

3 Jenners = 105 tons of 'Mech vs 100 tons of 'Mech.

[Krivvan]

ArmandTulsen, on 05 October 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

From a "balance" perspective, it's pretty freaking LOL that 2-3 Jenners can tear an Atlas a big new one. I still see that scrap happen often.

From a "balance" perspective that seems pretty much correct. What's wrong with 2-3 lighter mechs tearing apart a bigger mech? That makes sense.

[Mcgral18]

They stated it was low priority in ATD 48. After clans, maybe 2015.

[Appogee]

Like everything else, knockdown will be implemented One Day™.

ArmandTulsen, on 05 October 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Assault mechs shouldn't be food for lights. lol...

Actually, Lights should absolutely be able to beat Assaults, especially if there's more than one of them. They have speed and maneuverability vs the Assaults' armour and firepower.

Edited by Appogee, 05 October 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[PEEFsmash]

ArmandTulsen, on 05 October 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

This would solve a lot of problems with the lights and not make them agents of destruction who zip across the battlefield with near impunity.

From a "balance" perspective, it's pretty freaking LOL that 2-3 Jenners can tear an Atlas a big new one. I still see that scrap happen often.

Assault mechs shouldn't be food for lights. lol...

You think that a single, isolated Assault mech that happens to be the slowest and heaviest in the game should win a 1v3 against the 3 fastest and most maneuverable light skirmishers?

This isn't the game for you. This isn't a game where everyone else lines up for you and your big Assaulty mech gets to annihilate them one by one.

BTW, top level assault pilots almost always win 1v1s vs top light pilots. 1v3s? No mech should ever win a 1v3 regardless of the situation.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 05 October 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Knockdowns were pretty abused when we had them, I would prefer a mech stagger effect (knocked off coarse , speed drops, limps for a few steps). Getting repeatedly knocked down by dragons was pretty bad, but now we have ALOT of massive fast mechs (Imagine a 80kph Victor running into you repeatedly shooting you in the *** with his AC20 while you lay there on the ground unable to do anything but wait for the next knockdown)

Now add in clan mechs (which tend to be pretty fast anyways) and MASC, so much floor time.

[ArmandTulsen]

For the record, I would pay top dollar to have an Atlas be able to shoot a Hadouken in-game.

[Artgathan]

ArmandTulsen, on 05 October 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

From a "balance" perspective, it's pretty freaking LOL that 2-3 Jenners can tear an Atlas a big new one. I still see that scrap happen often.

3 Jenner-F have ~690 points or armor, and a combined firepower of 90. Your average AS7-D-DC has 614 points or armor and 66 firepower.

I can't imagine why 1 Atlas would be overwhelmed by 3 Jenners...

[R Razor]

Appogee, on 05 October 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Like everything else, knockdown will be implemented One Day™.


Actually, Lights should absolutely be able to beat Assaults, especially if there's more than one of them. They have speed and maneuverability vs the Assaults' armour and firepower.

Which should have to be balanced by an ability to pilot vs rushing in, pin-******* off of the assault they're charging with ZERO damage or repercussion, and rushing off only to come back in and do it again.

Yes, lights should be able to swarm, no lights shouldn't be able to charge an Atlas, bounce off its legs and keep right on moving. Make a light pilot actually PILOT and see how effective those swarms are.

My bet is that maybe 1 in 10 light jockeys have the necessary skill to survive on a battlefield with knockdowns enabled and so PGI, for fear of alienating their target (10 year old kids it seems) audience, is not about to implement it.

[PEEFsmash]

R Razor, on 05 October 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

My bet is that maybe 1 in 10 light jockeys have the necessary skill to survive on a battlefield with knockdowns enabled and so PGI, for fear of alienating their target (10 year old kids it seems) audience, is not about to implement it.

The target audience is the high-paying Assault pilots that will buy 40 dollar Assault hero mechs. The target audience of this game is not those playing light mechs, or else PGI would have developed A SINGLE PIECE OF NEW CONTENT for the light mech class in the last 6 months, but that hasn't happened.

[Appogee]

R Razor, on 05 October 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Which should have to be balanced by an ability to pilot vs rushing in, pin-******* off of the assault they're charging with ZERO damage or repercussion, and rushing off only to come back in and do it again.

I understand - and agree - with your point that Lights should suffer in a collision with an Assault.

However, when I'm piloting a Light, you will never find me close enough to collide with you. I'll be in your blind spot, shooting from your flank, and not trying to stay out of the way of all of your firepower. Generally, I will back myself to bring down a single Assault every time, because Lights have the advantage of maneuverability. Like this time.

By the way, I pilot all classes of Mechs. On my Assaults, I will often take weapons specifically designed to help me scare off Lights. When I am in a battle, I try to keep my Assaults away from Lights. But when I'm forced to fight one or more, I will pick a target, back against a wall to force them into my line of fire, and time my shots as carefully as possible.

And, if Lights kill my Assault, I accept it. It's not because they have some unfair advantage. I think Lights vs Assaults is pretty well balanced now... with the exception of the bugged hitboxes on the Spider.

Edited by Appogee, 05 October 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[Appogee]

PEEFsmash, on 05 October 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

The target audience is the high-paying Assault pilots that will buy 40 dollar Assault hero mechs. The target audience of this game is not those playing light mechs, or else PGI would have developed A SINGLE PIECE OF NEW CONTENT for the light mech class in the last 6 months, but that hasn't happened.

What? First Phoenix Mech is a Locus. They announced the Flea but didn't release it because of the HSR issues. This week's sale is all Lights.

[Odins Fist]

Any light pilot that has learned poor piloting habits form the lack of knockdowns from collision will have a tough time if they do bring back collision based knockdowns.

Any light pilot that can't manage to avoid the slow lumbering legs of an assault mech, has no business piloting a light mech.

From what I've seen a large number of light pilots still run into all sorts of enemy mechs, but not all..

The good light pilots will still be good, and the light pilots that have learned poor piloting habits form lack of collision will probably cry like infants if they ever bring back collision.

[PEEFsmash]

Appogee, on 05 October 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

What? First Phoenix Mech is a Locus. They announced the Flea but didn't release it because of the HSR issues. This week's sale is all Lights.

"First Phoenix Mech is a Locust." Do you not understand the point of that? They made the locust the first one out and the cheapest one because that pressures all of the assault and heavy pilots (aka the high-payers) to be FORCED to buy phoenix, or else have to wait for something like 5 months for the standard release. Releasing the Locust first is great because it puts more pressure on the assault/heavy pilots that want their big stompy auto-win mechs.

"Announcing the Flea" does not count as new content....you know that, too, right? Are you actually going to throw an announcement in my face as new content?

And as far as the light sale. WHO CARES ABOUT MC SALES FOR STANDARD MECH VARIANTS? Again, this is NOT new content, not new options for light mech pilots.

[Adiuvo]

Why is it that the people who really want knockdown back always whine about lights the most?

If you need a light mech to stop moving just so you can hit it, get better at aiming.

[ArmandTulsen]

Artgathan, on 05 October 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

3 Jenner-F have ~690 points or armor, and a combined firepower of 90. Your average AS7-D-DC has 614 points or armor and 66 firepower.

I can't imagine why 1 Atlas would be overwhelmed by 3 Jenners...

Okay, smart aleck.Five lights, 2 assaults, 1 heavy. The lights still win because they're like flies buzzing around with medium lasers and pulse lasers and the occasional SRMs. The assaults can't use their large lasers effectively, and hitting them with the heavy ballistics becomes a {Scrap} shoot.It's just a losing proposition for assaults, which it completely shouldn't be.

[dario03]

PEEFsmash, on 05 October 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

You think that a single, isolated Assault mech that happens to be the slowest and heaviest in the game should win a 1v3 against the 3 fastest and most maneuverable light skirmishers?

This isn't the game for you. This isn't a game where everyone else lines up for you and your big Assaulty mech gets to annihilate them one by one.

BTW, top level assault pilots almost always win 1v1s vs top light pilots. 1v3s? No mech should ever win a 1v3 regardless of the situation.

I agree with myself. There is no reason 1 mech should ever be able to beat 3 other mechs at the same time given ~equal skill. Heavier mechs having a advantage in 1v1 is fine since they can't move as fast but being able to beat 3 without much effort would make all other classes pointless. And yeah theres definitely more attention given to the bigger mechs. As for knockdowns I would be fine with them but it needs to affect both mechs. None of this I'm bigger so you fall down and I get free shots nonsense. It should be something like both falls or the bigger mech staggers (no firing weapons while staggered), the smaller mechs can take more damage but they also get up faster. And knockdowns should be very hard to do (like both mechs going near full speed)

Edited by dario03, 05 October 2013 - 11:21 AM.

[Appogee]

PEEFsmash, on 05 October 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

"First Phoenix Mech is a Locust." Do you not understand the point of that? They made the locust the first one out and the cheapest one because that pressures all of the assault and heavy pilots (aka the high-payers) to be FORCED to buy phoenix, or else have to wait for something like 5 months for the standard release.

Yes. I was merely responding to the assertion that there's no Light content, by pointing out there's a new Light due in a week.

PEEFsmash, on 05 October 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

"Announcing the Flea" does not count as new content....you know that, too, right? Are you actually going to throw an announcement in my face as new content?

Noone is throwing anything in your face (though perhaps you are getting a little blowback from your own spittle? )

I was merely pointing out that it the Flea was reportedly ready but they didn't release it because of HSR issues... which helps explain why there's been a Light missed in the usual release cycle.

I thought that information might be helpful to the discussion.

PEEFsmash, on 05 October 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

WHO CARES ABOUT MC SALES FOR STANDARD MECH VARIANTS? Again, this is NOT new content, not new options for light mech pilots.

Apparently, those people who buy Mechs for MC care about the sales. But

in any case, isn't the option to buy a new Light at a discount, without having to grind for Cbills, potentially a new option for those Light pilots who haven't yet experimented with one chassis or another? For example, I am considering buying a Spider 5D. I've not tried one because the bugged hit boxes seem like a kind of exploit. But hell, for $3.50 I might spend spend some MC on it and conserve my CBills for all the DHS and ES I'm going to have to buy for my Phoenix Mechs in a week's time.

My money, my choice, and nothing for anyone to get upset and go all caps about, I would have thought.

---

Finally, do you always get that angry, when someone merely contributes a few on-topic observations to a thread? I mean, I wasn't even giving a point of view on the matter, I was merely adding a few demonstrable facts to the discussion.

Edited by Appogee, 05 October 2013 - 11:39 AM.

[Volthorne]

ArmandTulsen, on 05 October 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Okay, smart aleck.Five lights, 2 assaults, 1 heavy. The lights still win because they're like flies buzzing around with medium lasers and pulse lasers and the occasional SRMs. The assaults can't use their large lasers effectively, and hitting them with the heavy ballistics becomes a {Scrap} shoot.It's just a losing proposition for assaults, which it completely shouldn't be.

The Assaults and Heavy should be in a formation that allows them to cover each other. If they aren't then they deserve to die.

Edited by Volthorne, 05 October 2013 - 12:21 PM.