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Mad Dog Or Timberwolf?


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#41 aniviron

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:16 AM

View PostCyclonerM, on 22 October 2013 - 03:33 AM, said:

Hey trashborn brother, you do not need to be a trueborn and blabla to serve with glory your Clan :D Phelan Kell and Horse are my heroes! :)


This is true! It's so hard to get a bloodname that way, but nice to know it's possible at least. :]

#42 CyclonerM

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:31 AM

View Postaniviron, on 22 October 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:


This is true! It's so hard to get a bloodname that way, but nice to know it's possible at least. :]

Trust me, earning a Bloodname is even more difficult when most of your Clan is from NA and you are not :D

#43 Ninjivitis

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:41 PM

That's a tough call, both are amazing mechs. I am betting the Timberwolf with arrive first, though they can't leave the Mad Dog out, it's one of the best medium mechs out there.

#44 FireSlade

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:00 PM

View PostNinjivitis, on 22 October 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

That's a tough call, both are amazing mechs. I am betting the Timberwolf with arrive first, though they can't leave the Mad Dog out, it's one of the best medium mechs out there.

Heavy mech lol, but I agree it is a really good mech though I prefer the Timber Wolf.

#45 Ghostdrake

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:02 PM

Timberwolf for me, always prefered it in the previous games.

#46 Ninjivitis

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:55 PM

View PostFireSlade, on 22 October 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Heavy mech lol, but I agree it is a really good mech though I prefer the Timber Wolf.

See? It is so good I thought it was a medium because it handles so well!

#47 CyclonerM

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:03 AM

The Mad Dog is very good indeed, same tonnage as a Catapult, same role but much better weapons, more like a Cat upgrade: you trade your 4 medium lasers for pulse lasers and your LRM15 for CLR20, your standard engine for a Clan XL. Not a bad trade, quiaff? :D

#48 Asatur

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:35 PM

View PostCyclonerM, on 23 October 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

The Mad Dog is very good indeed, same tonnage as a Catapult
60t vs 65t

View PostCyclonerM, on 23 October 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

same role
What about Mad Dog C with 2 gauss rifles? Guys did you forget that Mad Dog is omnimech with lots of roles? ;)

PS: I think Timber Wolf much better and... Wolf mech against SJ mech - its a rhetorical question in this part of forum. :(

#49 CyclonerM

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:54 AM

View PostAsatur, on 23 October 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

60t vs 65t

Ouch, i was pretty sure it was 65 tons.. Well if it is lighter than a Catapult than it is even better than i thought, with the armor as only drawback as i remember. :D

View PostAsatur, on 23 October 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

What about Mad Dog C with 2 gauss rifles?

PS: I think Timber Wolf much better and... Wolf mech against SJ mech - its a rhetorical question in this part of forum. :)


Not bad indeed.

And then.. The Mad Dog is an excellent 'Mech, even if it is a Smoke Jaguars' design. :)

#50 Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:54 AM

Mad Cat hands down. 2 ER Large Lasers, 2 ER Medium Lasers, Medium Pulse Laser, 2 Machine Guns, 2 LRM 20s, 86 Top speed VS.

Mad Dog: 2 Large Pulse Lasers, 2 Medium Pulse Lasers, 2 LRM 20s, 86 Kph and way less armor.

Mad Cat wins! Mad Cat has the Mad Dog by fire power, Range, and defense. But Mad Dog does still have a special place in my heart. Mad Cat has more of my heart though.

#51 CyclonerM

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:15 AM

View PostMarack Drock, on 24 October 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Mad Cat hands down. 2 ER Large Lasers, 2 ER Medium Lasers, Medium Pulse Laser, 2 Machine Guns, 2 LRM 20s, 86 Top speed VS.

Mad Dog: 2 Large Pulse Lasers, 2 Medium Pulse Lasers, 2 LRM 20s, 86 Kph and way less armor.

Mad Cat wins! Mad Cat has the Mad Dog by fire power, Range, and defense. But Mad Dog does still have a special place in my heart. Mad Cat has more of my heart though.


Price.
The Mad Dog is waaay cheaper than the Timberwolf. Clans do not have infinite resources, so why "wasting" an expensive TW when you need a support/missile 'Mech like the Mad Dog ? :)

#52 Adridos

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:40 AM

View PostCyclonerM, on 24 October 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

Price.
The Mad Dog is waaay cheaper than the Timberwolf. Clans do not have infinite resources, so why "wasting" an expensive TW when you need a support/missile 'Mech like the Mad Dog ? :)


Actually, they are a communistic society. They do have as much resources as they please, since the non-warrior castes are working for the betterment of the Clan and not pay. "Price" is a non-existant principle for them.

But yes, the reason to field a Mad Dog over a Timber Wolf is simply to preserve resources. If a Mad Dog can do the job, why use a Timber Wolf which could be used somewhere else to better use. That's what their bidding system is design for. To achieve the most with the least resources. Yes, this seems rather same-ish to the reason you've noted, but it has one critical difference. In the case of not being 100% strained on resources, there is zero reason to take a Mad Dog over a Timber Wolf aside from boosting your own ego.

Edited by Adridos, 24 October 2013 - 10:45 AM.


#53 CyclonerM

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:57 AM

View PostAdridos, on 24 October 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:


Actually, they are a communistic society. They do have as much resources as they please, since the non-warrior castes are working for the betterment of the Clan and not pay. "Price" is a non-existant principle for them.

But yes, the reason to field a Mad Dog over a Timber Wolf is simply to preserve resources. If a Mad Dog can do the job, why use a Timber Wolf which could be used somewhere else to better use. That's what their bidding system is design for. To achieve the most with the least resources. Yes, this seems rather same-ish to the reason you've noted, but it has one critical difference. In the case of not being 100% strained on resources, there is zero reason to take a Mad Dog over a Timber Wolf aside from boosting your own ego.


Their bidding and rituals have this practical reason: avoiding wasting resources in warfare. This is important because, as you will surely know, the worlds of the Kerensky Cluster are less hospitable and have less resources (and are also fewer) than Inner Sphere worlds.
So the question is not the "price", but the materials needed to build and keep efficient each Clan's Touman.

#54 Strum Wealh

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:17 AM

View PostAdridos, on 24 October 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:


Actually, they are a communistic society. They do have as much resources as they please, since the non-warrior castes are working for the betterment of the Clan and not pay. "Price" is a non-existant principle for them.

But yes, the reason to field a Mad Dog over a Timber Wolf is simply to preserve resources. If a Mad Dog can do the job, why use a Timber Wolf which could be used somewhere else to better use. That's what their bidding system is design for. To achieve the most with the least resources. Yes, this seems rather same-ish to the reason you've noted, but it has one critical difference. In the case of not being 100% strained on resources, there is zero reason to take a Mad Dog over a Timber Wolf aside from boosting your own ego.

The Clans do actually have an exchange-based economy - they have their own hard currency (the Kerensky/"K-bill") and also employ a work-credit system that is probably not unlike that found in B.F. Skinner's Walden Two. :)

Edited by Strum Wealh, 24 October 2013 - 11:17 AM.


#55 Strum Wealh

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:30 AM

View PostCyclonerM, on 12 October 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

I'd say Timberwolf, but why choosing when we can have both of them? :)
PGI has to be very careful with it. I think they may make the
"Bunny ears" separated hitboxes like in MW4, the TT armor distribution is not well suited for this 'Mech in a real time game.

View PostBull Frog, on 12 October 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

Thatès what I keep saying but then again, theyèd have to do the same for other mechs with jutting parts.

Well, does shooting the missile launchers on the Thunderbolt count as hitting a separate piece, or does it count as hitting the side-torso?
That is the likely answer as to whether the same will be done for the Mad Cat.

As far as the Vulture goes, the hitbox issue becomes one of whether they'll stick with the more classic design...
Posted Image

or the more modern design.
Posted Image

In the case of the former, would/should the sides of the central section (forward of the missile launchers - where the hemispherical structures are attached, and where the vent-like structures is located) be counted as part of the Center Torso, or as part of the side-torsos? :lol:

#56 Adridos

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:45 AM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 24 October 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

As far as the Vulture goes, the hitbox issue becomes one of whether they'll stick with the more classic design...or the more modern design.


Actually, that's a completely different mech, the Vulture Mk.III. Same story for the mech design in MW4, which is canonized as Vulture Mk.II.

Thus, the hitboxes are the same for the Mad Dog. :)

View PostStrum Wealh, on 24 October 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

The Clans do actually have an exchange-based economy - they have their own hard currency (the Kerensky/"K-bill") and also employ a work-credit system that is probably not unlike that found in B.F. Skinner's Walden Two. :lol:


But they are working mostly with work-credits (communistic ideal of just enough capital for what you need for good life... food, house equipment, etc,), it's a bit of a different concept than money. As far as K-Bills go, that's mostly merchant stuff.

View PostCyclonerM, on 24 October 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:


Their bidding and rituals have this practical reason: avoiding wasting resources in warfare. This is important because, as you will surely know, the worlds of the Kerensky Cluster are less hospitable and have less resources (and are also fewer) than Inner Sphere worlds.

So the question is not the "price", but the materials needed to build and keep efficient each Clan's Touman.


Yes, but think about the situation again. You need to get rid of a pirate lance. Clans would sent a Mad Dog of the two, because of honor and such, but the logical choise would be the Timber Wolf, since it would do the job faster and more efficiently, sparing armor parts needed for repairs and being home sooner, leaving the Clan to start doing stuff on that rock again faster and doing the basic maintenance of the mech sooner.

#57 CyclonerM

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:47 AM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 24 October 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

The Clans do actually have an exchange-based economy - they have their own hard currency (the Kerensky/"K-bill") and also employ a work-credit system that is probably not unlike that found in B.F. Skinner's Walden Two. :)

Kerensky are only used by the merchant caste for exchange with other Clans - warriors are even forbidden to carry money, you know. But Clans cannot rely only on trade to keep active their war machine..

View PostStrum Wealh, on 24 October 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

Well, does shooting the missile launchers on the Thunderbolt count as hitting a separate piece, or does it count as hitting the side-torso?
That is the likely answer as to whether the same will be done for the Mad Cat.

As far as the Vulture goes, the hitbox issue becomes one of whether they'll stick with the more classic design...


or the more modern design.


In the case of the former, would/should the sides of the central section (forward of the missile launchers - where the hemispherical structures are attached, and where the vent-like structures is located) be counted as part of the Center Torso, or as part of the side-torsos? :lol:


That is not even a Timberwolf.. I think they are a Mad Cat Mk.IV and the Dark Age redesign of the Vulture. Not very good-looking, i may add. Oh, it may even be a Vulture III ..?

#58 Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:34 PM

View PostCyclonerM, on 24 October 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:


Price.
The Mad Dog is waaay cheaper than the Timberwolf. Clans do not have infinite resources, so why "wasting" an expensive TW when you need a support/missile 'Mech like the Mad Dog ? ;)

Cause Mad Cat can handle the job of Support and assault. Its 2 in 1. Plus it has an awesome name!

#59 TELEFORCE

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:01 PM

The Timber Wolf and the Mad Dog are both great designs. The Mad Dog is great because it has 28 tons of pod space, nearly half of its weight for weapons and equipment. It has two fixed DHS as well. Because it just uses ferro fibrous armor, it has ample space for weapons, equipment, and heatsinks. It's as fast as many IS medium 'mechs at the time of Operation Revival, and carries a decent amount of armor, comparable to the 70-ton Warhammer 6R, and about a ton less than the Summoner. If resources were very important, I'd say that you'd get a good bang for your buck using a Mad Dog.

Also, the fluff states that Clan Smoke Jaguar designed the Mad Dog and named it as such to insult Clan Wolf and its Timber Wolf omnimech.

The Timber Wolf, on the other hand, is by far the most optimized canon heavy omnimech. It weighs in at 75 tons, moves as fast as Operation Revival-era IS mediums, and has 27.5 tons of pod space (just a half-ton less than the Mad Dog), and makes use of both endo-steel and ferro fibrous to achieve that much free mass. Even though it has a half-ton less pod space than its 60-ton counterpart, it carries 15 fixed DHS, 3 more than the Mad Dog, allowing for more energy-heavy configurations that are nicer to the heat gauge. The Timber Wolf also mounts 70% more armor than the Mad Dog.

On table top, I often use both Mad Dogs and Timber Wolves in my medium and heavy stars. They are both excellent chassis. The heavier armor on the Timber Wolf is a big plus, but we're talking about a 15-ton difference between chassis, so that is going to be different.

#60 CyclonerM

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:43 AM

And when you bid you win a greater honor with a Mad Dog instead of a Timber Wolf ;)





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