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Battlemaster Thoughts


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#1 Veltae

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:50 PM

So, I've been thinking long and hard about how I'm going to run my Battlemaster. It's got lovely slots on it, and I'm just tossed and turned about the many options and ways I could build it.

Here are my current thoughts, hopefully I can get some advice. I feel like I should have better heat efficiency. Maybe dropping those Pulse Mediums to normal Mediums?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...631c35fa3a52c4d

#2 Wintersdark

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:05 PM

Yeah. Medium Pulse Lasers are generally poor weapons, particularly on an assault.

The reason being, their limited range means much of the time you'll be firing them at beyond their Optimal Range - outside of 180m. In this circumstance, they're just 2 ton Medium Lasers that generate extra heat.

Regular Medium Lasers generate less heat, save tonnage (6 more DHS! Or, hell, remove EndoSteel and take 2 DHS and still have slots to spare), deal full damage to 270 and reach out past 500m. You can make MPulse lasers work in situations where you have few energy slots and a fast mech - not fast as in "Fast for an assault" like the battlemaster, but fast overall. They're just not worth it in this situation, however.

An 6 damage overall, at the cost of 90m/180m range, 6 tons, and 39% more heat per second? No thanks.

IMHO, all battlemaster builds basically start with 6 Medium Lasers. You can then remove one/two ML's in return for LPL's (they're essentially 2 ML's for extra tonnage), or look more into ballistics and such.

#3 HozeMonky

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:18 PM

Heat is going to be your biggest problem on this 'mech. That and the XL engine as well. I'm not sure how the hit boxes are going to act on the Battlemaster but they look big so that torso is probably going to get chewed up pretty easily.

Running an XL on any assault mech usually ends poorly. I've only done it regularly on a highlander sniper/LRM build with moderate success. If you really want to run an XL engine I'd say go big or go home. Speed is going to be your friend. On the up side switching the MPL to ML gives you the tonnage to go to an XL375.


I've found that anything less than 30% heat eff on Smurfy is very hard to keep running unless you keep a hawkeye on your heat and have a lot of fire control. The ER PPC runs crazy hot and the AC/2's are the highest HPS ballistics in the game. If you want to keep the ER PPC I would sack the AC/2's for a more heat friendly option. UAC/5, AC/5 or AC/10. Much more heat efficient. You won't put out anywhere near the max DPS of the AC/2's but you'll do it for a LOT longer. It kinda depends on whether you'd prefer to go for DPS and cabin shake or the focused damage of the AC/10.

Good luck!

#4 Veltae

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:38 PM

Do you guys think the AMS is a requirement on an Assault Mech? If I drop it, I can move things around and get better heat.

This is what I'm thinking now, with all the advice. Gives me 29% Heat Efficiency.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6051942ef48e0fe

#5 Wintersdark

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:39 PM

My favourites are currently around this: BLR-1G
6ML, ERLL, 2xAC5, XL350 and 20 DHS.

The AC5's are very gentle on heat, and 20DHS does a great job of sinking heat from the 6ML. Generally speaking, you're firing the ERLL and twinned AC5's at long range, then ML's and AC5's up close.

This is assuming that XL's are not a deathtrap on the Battlemaster. We'll see how that plays out, though.

#6 Wintersdark

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:43 PM

View PostHozeMonky, on 12 October 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

Heat is going to be your biggest problem on this 'mech. That and the XL engine as well. I'm not sure how the hit boxes are going to act on the Battlemaster but they look big so that torso is probably going to get chewed up pretty easily.

Running an XL on any assault mech usually ends poorly. I've only done it regularly on a highlander sniper/LRM build with moderate success. If you really want to run an XL engine I'd say go big or go home. Speed is going to be your friend. On the up side switching the MPL to ML gives you the tonnage to go to an XL375.


I've found that anything less than 30% heat eff on Smurfy is very hard to keep running unless you keep a hawkeye on your heat and have a lot of fire control. The ER PPC runs crazy hot and the AC/2's are the highest HPS ballistics in the game. If you want to keep the ER PPC I would sack the AC/2's for a more heat friendly option. UAC/5, AC/5 or AC/10. Much more heat efficient. You won't put out anywhere near the max DPS of the AC/2's but you'll do it for a LOT longer. It kinda depends on whether you'd prefer to go for DPS and cabin shake or the focused damage of the AC/10.

Good luck!

Twinned '5's put out comparable DPS to the 2's at minimal heat and only 4 tons more total.

My build above sports 36% heat efficiency, which IMHO is still pretty low (I never, ever run less than 35%) but that's not accounting for shelving the ERLL up close and personal. Time to overheat of 22s when up close and not firing the ERLL; which is where TTO is most important - in a brawl.

#7 Muffinator

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:49 PM

I'm looking at those big arms and wondering about a zombie build with torso only weapons. You could get a std 325 or a bit more, 2 LL in each side torso, then fill it with heatsinks. It'd pack a punch and be pretty fast and hard to disarm, potentially.

#8 Wintersdark

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:54 PM

View PostMuffinator, on 12 October 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

I'm looking at those big arms and wondering about a zombie build with torso only weapons. You could get a std 325 or a bit more, 2 LL in each side torso, then fill it with heatsinks. It'd pack a punch and be pretty fast and hard to disarm, potentially.

Meh. You'd only get a couple more Heat Sinks than I have in my build at best, at the cost of a substantial loss of firepower. 2 more DHS, actually, assuming you put both LL's in one side torso and a DHS in the other. Then you'd get 2 DHS in the ballistic arm, but you'd lose one in-engine.

Not that it'd be bad, but you're not getting many more heat sinks that I've already got in mine.

#9 Muffinator

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 08:21 PM

I'm not saying its the best build ever but with the bigger engine you could get an extra 4 DHS which gives you 52% in Smurfy (1.42 in the mechlab) and it would get off 8 alphas before overheating - enough to kill anything twice :huh:

#10 tib3r

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:13 AM

So far, the Battlemaster is rubbing me funny. It seems like its going to be a less shoddy weight class straddling mech then say the Victor is, it seems like it will be more like an Orion that is in the Assault weight class.

I never have been a fan of running XLs in something I know I will take up to the front, I have had a lot of matches in my Orions that I have survived BECAUSE I was using a STD engine.

#11 tib3r

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:18 AM

View PostVeltae, on 12 October 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

So, I've been thinking long and hard about how I'm going to run my Battlemaster. It's got lovely slots on it, and I'm just tossed and turned about the many options and ways I could build it.

Here are my current thoughts, hopefully I can get some advice. I feel like I should have better heat efficiency. Maybe dropping those Pulse Mediums to normal Mediums?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...631c35fa3a52c4d


For that same firepower rating, you could COMPLETELY bypass using an XL, and the speed gain is so nominal I could almost say in good faith to over look it.

BLR-1G

Personally, I think that this is OK and it will have a good life expectancy.
And I am well aware that its the wrong ammo in the legs.

#12 Veltae

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:37 AM

All great advice. What's the conversion for Smurfy's Cooling Efficiency vs the ingame number?

#13 HozeMonky

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:00 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 12 October 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

Twinned '5's put out comparable DPS to the 2's at minimal heat and only 4 tons more total.

My build above sports 36% heat efficiency, which IMHO is still pretty low (I never, ever run less than 35%) but that's not accounting for shelving the ERLL up close and personal. Time to overheat of 22s when up close and not firing the ERLL; which is where TTO is most important - in a brawl.



That right there is a solid build. I was thinking single AC/5 or UAC/5 but dual is definitely better. But hard to do with a larger engine.

#14 Mad Dog Morgan

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:07 AM

I've got a bit of a mixed range build idea that I may implement when the BLR becomes available. ERLL to supplement the Gauss, and one button to chainfire the 6 MLs when necessary. Granted, I could do double AC-5's, but I'd like to play to the strengths of good positioning and relatively low speed. This is as close I could get with the slots and tonnage available with an XL and endo-steel.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...157798c9cdd6638

Edited by Vaskadar, 13 October 2013 - 06:09 AM.


#15 Wintersdark

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:47 AM

View PostVeltae, on 13 October 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

All great advice. What's the conversion for Smurfy's Cooling Efficiency vs the ingame number?


There isn't one, because the in game mechlabs cooling number is garbage. The explanation is in smirfy's thread but in short the in game mechlab value isnt just based on heat produced and sunk, but certain weapons have oddball nonsensical constants. There was much discussion, but because the mechlab value isn't actually meaningful, it was just discarded.

Smurfy's is simple - its what percentage of heat produced is sunk.

#16 Veltae

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:52 AM

Super excited. Tomorrow!

#17 RF Greywolf

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:10 AM

View PostVeltae, on 14 October 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Super excited. Tomorrow!


I can't wait for it!! The Battlemaster will be my first assault and trust me, I'm glad it's going to be the Battlemaster. (even though I want my Zues :ph34r: ) I have a brawler build in mind.

Big Brawl

#18 Veltae

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:14 AM

You like the LB10X vs AC10?

#19 Tremendous Upside

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:16 AM

I'll probably run mine more like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c5316a46ee92c0e

Just a straight-up brawler... Plenty of cooling to maintain a high rate of fire, tons of armor and a couple of arms that are more or less expendable.

As for the stuff about med pulses? I've tried those every which way possible on my AWS-9M. Even with 20-21 DHS the mech ran too hot to be practical. And the points about the range limitations are dead on. It's one thing to run a weapon that's optimal out to 180m on a mech that has the speed to control the distance in a fight. With a jenner or a cicada? Easy to do. At ~70-75kph, you probably won't have that luxury. The only things you'll be "faster" than are other assaults -- and super-slow (usually long ranged) heavies. Super range limited + super hot are two things that don't usually work well together in this game.

#20 Dawnstealer

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:27 AM

Just given the fact that the "shoulder lasers" are clustered in a big patch, and are the side torso, I would be real, REAL leery of running an XL in this thing. Sure, you'll be moving faster, but even with 50-60 points of armor there, you're asking for a quick death.

I'd rather trade speed for a little more survivability. That said, if you're moving less than 60kph, you're way too slow for this weight class. However you build it, I'd start with max armor, an engine of at least STD 355, and then fill it out from there.





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