95 replies to this topic

[Xmasterspy]

Just Stop... Really just stop. You're not a "sniper" and hurting your team trying to be one.

Lets define what a sniper is. Someone that shoots from a hidden spot to take out an enemy. They use a precision-rifle used to ensure more accurate placement of bullets at longer ranges.

Its hard to hide a 50+ ton Mech and Unfortunately you have to be extremely lucky and I mean really lucky (AKA no skill on your part at all) to actually take someone out (kill them) at any extended range in MWO. Why you may ask? MWO weapons have diminishing returns after their maximum range. The other mech would have to be already severely damaged in order for your shot to actually kill them. In that case you are just a player that is stealing someones kill because you did no damage in the first place.

When a real sniper shoots at long rage someone dies. When a MWO "sniper" shoots at long rage they do 1 damage.  You may see on your screen a big hit animation when you fire and hit your opponent at 1500, in reality you have literately done next to no damage to that other mech.

You're hurting your team by trying to play something that is not practical in this game. It would be the same if someone was running around saying they are a medic by jumping in front of everyone's incoming shots.

Also, the whole "sniper fire helps keep enemy players from pushing forward" is a silly argument. While it may keep some new people from rushing or pushing forward, most players that have been around for awhile, know that the snipers shots are doing no damage and ignore it.  

This is a nice post for more detail on weapon ranges and diminishing returns. http://mwomercs.com/...-weapon-ranges/

This also goes for poptarts trying to jump up and shoot someone at 2000m away. Stop please.

Edited by Xmasterspy, 21 October 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[wintersborn]

Have to disagree when it is in 12 man PUG's, in your clans organized lances well do what you think is best.

Also your definition of what a "Sniper" is, is wrong go ask someone who earned a hogs tooth.

PUG's = people play what and how they want and you have no place trying to force them to do anything. Besides a good long range build can force cover, Scout, TAG, Cap and soften up a lot of mechs before the PUG hord even gets there.

I agree that shooting beyond your range is not smart but damage is damage even at long range until you close the gap.

If you want to rush to your death so be it, advance into enemy fire and start the steam roll.

Edited by wintersborn, 21 October 2013 - 03:13 PM.

[stinkypuppy]

i'm "kinda" a sniper. i stay behind my team and pound the enemy with guass rifles, large lasers, ppc's, LRMS, and longer range AC weapons.(like AC/2 or AC/5) however when i do this "sniping" i'm not super far behind my team and i'm usually like 300-600m away from my targets and when i'm behind my friendlies i basically mean i'm standing like 40m behind a assault mech slowly moving up with it providing precision fire support far enough behind that i'm kinda using the assault mech for cover however if the assault mech needs to reverse i get plenty of space to notice it and back up with him because i know the rage filled feeling if not being able to back up due to some ***** standing behind you.

if you are a "sniper" remember battlefield 3 tactics don't work in mechwarrior and you should instead use the tactics mentioned above, and remember, DONT STAND RIGHT BEHIND SOMEONE AHEAD OF YOU BECAUSE THEY NEED TO BACK UP ALSO! whenever i try and backup and some eager to fight centurion is standing behind me allowing me to not move while i'm being pounded in the face by weapons of every kind it fills me with this special kind of rage called: I'M GOING TO *********************************** SO *************************************** YOU WILL NEVER WALK AGAIN

[Xmasterspy]

Sorry if I dumbed down what a real snipers responsibility are. However, if you break it down, one of their main weapons is a sniper rifle and its intended to shoot and kill people with one shot. This is something you simply can not do in MWO. (unless what pointed out in my main post)

Damage is damage, but your 1 point of damage is not helping. As I mentioned, anyone that has played for a bit not be pinned down by some guy shooting at 1500. I have to check, but I don't think tag goes that far either.

So that leaves scout and capping. If you want to do that... awesome! Just don't pretend that there is some kinda "sniper" damage roll in MWO, Cause there is not.

[LauLiao]

Xmasterspy, on 21 October 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

However, if you break it down, one of their main weapons is a sniper rifle and its intended to shoot and kill people with one shot.

Ok let's break it down.

Snipe (v.) 1. To shoot at exposed individuals from a usually concealed point of vantage
Sniper (n.) 1. One who snipes

I'm not seeing anything about one shot one kill...

[Lord of Death]

Sniper, really.

[Xmasterspy]

stinkypuppy, on 21 October 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

i'm "kinda" a sniper. i stay behind my team and pound the enemy with guass rifles, large lasers, ppc's, LRMS, and longer range AC weapons.(like AC/2 or AC/5) however when i do this "sniping" i'm not super far behind my team and i'm usually like 300-600m away from my targets

if you are a "sniper" remember battlefield 3 tactics don't work in mechwarrior and you should instead use the tactics mentioned above, and remember, DONT STAND RIGHT BEHIND SOMEONE AHEAD OF YOU BECAUSE THEY NEED TO BACK UP ALSO! wh

I agree totally Stinkpuppy. I am a brawler and I like to be right in the thick of it, but there are people that like to hang back a little and shoot from distance. (still in optimal range of their weapons). These guys are a great asset to the team.

It's the guys that run off from the main group to set up their "sniper" position, that do practically no damage the whole game, then wonder why no one is there to help them when they get 3 lights on them, that bother me!

[Nick Makiaveli]

LauLiao, on 21 October 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Ok let's break it down.

Snipe (v.) 1. To shoot at exposed individuals from a usually concealed point of vantage
Sniper (n.) 1. One who snipes

I'm not seeing anything about one shot one kill...

I think we are getting bogged down in semantics. Sniping has a place in MWO. I've seen Lights with ERLL/ERPPCs sit on a ridge and plink away at the combat below and help turn the tide of battle.

As to kill stealing? It's a team game, and focusing fire is not only a good thing, but not doing it is sub-optimal, to say the least.

[Xmasterspy]

LauLiao, on 21 October 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

Ok let's break it down.

Snipe (v.) 1. To shoot at exposed individuals from a usually concealed point of vantage
Sniper (n.) 1. One who snipes

I'm not seeing anything about one shot one kill...

Right.. cause snipers have been trained to shoot people in the feet!

[LauLiao]

Xmasterspy, on 21 October 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Right.. cause snipers have been trained to shoot people in the feet!

Don't confuse the military occupation with the word. I'm pretty sure everyone who calls themselves a "sniper" is quite aware that they either have or have not received military training. All they are saying is that their fighting style in this FICTIONAL VIDEO GAME is to attack from concealment at range, i.e. sniping which would make them snipers. As opposed to brawlers, LRM support, or scouts. What would your preferred nomenclature be? "Hidey-shooty-mech"? Now if you have friends walking around on the streets telling people they're "Snipers" because they play a poptart PPC/Gauss Victor or whatever the sniper build of the week is in this game then feel free to school them. Otherwise chill out.

I mean brawlers really? Brawlers kick and punch and there's no kicking or punching in this game so nobody should call themselves brawlers.

[Xmasterspy]

Nick Makiaveli, on 21 October 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

I think we are getting bogged down in semantics. Sniping has a place in MWO. I've seen Lights with ERLL/ERPPCs sit on a ridge and plink away at the combat below and help turn the tide of battle.

As to kill stealing? It's a team game, and focusing fire is not only a good thing, but not doing it is sub-optimal, to say the least.

I have never seen a light with ERLL/ERPPC do anything BUT not do its job. (not capping) Trying to run around and hit heavys at max range and doing 0 to 1 damage.. no help at all.

Sorry, if i see a guy has been working on enemy mech for some time and its about dead, I don't fire and take the kill. I am sure thats just me tho.

[Xmasterspy]

LauLiao, on 21 October 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

Don't confuse the military occupation with the word. I'm pretty sure everyone who calls themselves a "sniper" is quite aware that they either have or have not received military training. All they are saying is that their fighting style in this FICTIONAL VIDEO GAME is to attack from concealment at range, i.e. sniping which would make them snipers. As opposed to brawlers, LRM support, or scouts. What would your preferred nomenclature be? "Hidey-shooty-mech"? Now if you have friends walking around on the streets telling people they're "Snipers" because they play a poptart PPC/Gauss Victor or whatever the sniper build of the week is in this game then feel free to school them. Otherwise chill out.

You know what I mean, and you being difficult! People that play "snipers" in games usually want to run away, hide, and take one shot, and get the one kill. it's a play style that works great for other games. SOF COD BF and many many others.

I am just pointing out that there is no place for that type of play in this game. The reason being is that you can't do enough damage (because of the range mechanics) in this game to be a "sniper". They are hurting the team more then helping.

[wintersborn]

Well My pair of ER PPC's on my "Sniper" Cicada have a max range of 1620, so I will shoot at targets within that range while I close in to my normal range of around 700. TAG has a 750 range and my PPC's normal range is 810 so that is my sweet spot.

I agree wasting ammo is not smart when out of range but ER PPC's don't have ammo and if I hit a ECM mech at just under 1000 they can be targeted by LRMs.

And the fact that you have to run back to displace and then up to range again may look like we are running away or staying too far back, but there is a reason.

I only play Assault 12 man PUG's.

Edited by wintersborn, 21 October 2013 - 04:11 PM.

[MungFuSensei]

I used to run a K2 with a gauss and two ER LLs. I played it like a sniper, and it was very effective. People will ignore a source of damage that is far away in favor of dealing with a close up threat. Brawling has a purpose, but it is not the be-all-end-all of the game.

You talk about diminishing returns, but engaging the enemy before they can return fire gives you the advantage. Even if it's just 1 point of damage (which it often isn't, but I'll just play along with you) that is a 1 point difference between the enemy and your teammate. Remember, once the first enemy mech crumbles, your team is well on its way to victory. Getting that first mech down as soon as possible is what you need to keep the edge, and maintain numerical superiority.

I'm sorry, but you're just flat out wrong. A softened up brawler at range is a dead brawler up close.

[CrashieJ]

YOU ARE CALLED A SHARPSHOOTER

SNIPERS ACTUALLY HAVE TO CAMP AND WAIT FOR THE ENEMY FOR DAYS

[Xmasterspy]

MungFuSensei, on 21 October 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

I used to run a K2 with a gauss and two ER LLs. I played it like a sniper, and it was very effective. People will ignore a source of damage that is far away in favor of dealing with a close up threat. Brawling has a purpose, but it is not the be-all-end-all of the game.

You talk about diminishing returns, but engaging the enemy before they can return fire gives you the advantage. Even if it's just 1 point of damage (which it often isn't, but I'll just play along with you) that is a 1 point difference between the enemy and your teammate. Remember, once the first enemy mech crumbles, your team is well on its way to victory. Getting that first mech down as soon as possible is what you need to keep the edge, and maintain numerical superiority.

I'm sorry, but you're just flat out wrong. A softened up brawler at range is a dead brawler up close.

I am sorry to disagree with you. I know that this would not be a popular post among people that consider themselves MWO "snipers" but it's just not that case. I have been in spectator mode with "snipers" many many times. Watching these "snipers" trying to get there zoom just right (most of the time they don't even have advances zoom). They fire at 1900, missing almost every time. Finally they do hit and it does next to nothing in damage. It's just not worth it. Hurts the team in the long run.

Also, look at the other forum post for damage after range. ERLL at 1282m is .9 damage. ERPPC at 1539m 1 damage.. So 1 is not some number I made up.

You wont have to worry about me heading up and killing you in the hills, the lights will do that as you trying to shoot me at 2000M. Try shooting at them with those ppcs under 90

[Xeno Phalcon]

Why is this a thing?

Virtually none of the guys trying to shoot people WELL beyond their max range are going to read this, and not just the ones that think they can snipe from 2k, im especially fond of the 1k meter medium laser attack and the 600 meter SRM to the face.

Anyone else that bothers putting the time and (virtual) money into building a fire support mech knows what they are doing essentially.

[MungFuSensei]

Xmasterspy, on 21 October 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

I am sorry to disagree with you. I know that this would not be a popular post among people that consider themselves MWO "snipers" but it's just not that case. I have been in spectator mode with "snipers" many many times. Watching these "snipers" trying to get there zoom just right (most of the time they don't even have advances zoom). They fire at 1900, missing almost every time. Finally they do hit and it does next to nothing in damage. It's just not worth it. Hurts the team in the long run.

Also, look at the other forum post for damage after range. ERLL at 1282m is .9 damage. ERPPC at 1539m 1 damage.. So 1 is not some number I made up.

You wont have to worry about me heading up and killing you in the hills, the lights will do that as you trying to shoot me at 2000M. Try shooting at them with those ppcs under 90

You're arguing the use of the term. Sniper means long range direct fire support in this game. And again, those minor numbers add up. Furthermore, Engagement ranges close eventually. Most of the fight occurs at 700-800m for snipers. At this point, they will outshoot those with shorter range weapons (whose weapons will be doing 1 or less damage, as you keep telling everyone is useless). Yes, there are some people out there that are no good with snipers yet still field them. Nothing we can do about that. Doesn't mean sniping is useless.

Being able to hurt someone while you are sitting outside of their engagement range is incredibly useful. You are either new to the game, or you are just trolling now.

[WVAnonymous]

Xmasterspy, on 21 October 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

I have never seen a light with ERLL/ERPPC do anything BUT not do its job. (not capping) Trying to run around and hit heavys at max range and doing 0 to 1 damage.. no help at all.

Sorry, if i see a guy has been working on enemy mech for some time and its about dead, I don't fire and take the kill. I am sure thats just me tho.

That is just you.

I don't think of it as "kill stealing", I think of it as "harvesting the low hanging fruit"...

[Zerberus]

Xmasterspy, on 21 October 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Right.. cause snipers have been trained to shoot people in the feet!

Snipers (meaning people that actually KNOW what they are doing, not random civilians on an internet forum) are trained to put the bullet WHERE they want it, WHEN they want it.

Your apparent assumption that snipers are long range human-eradication devices that shoot to kill and only to kill is both uninformed and insulting.