30 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

I'm struggling to pick the Phoenix medium mech I'll be using in the long run. Seems like the Phoenix mechs are the worst variants for their respective mechs. Locust 1V is the worst Locust, Shadowhawk 2H is certainly my least favourite Shadowhawk. Granted, it's because I don't know how to use the AC2 very well.

So I'm looking at the Wolverine and Griffin, and I really don't know which is better. Does anyone have a good build for any of these? Maybe Wolverine with 2AC5, 1 medium laser and 3 SRM2's would be alright...

[Anjian]

Give the Shadowhawk either a dual AC5, AC10 (with a large laser), or AC20.

[Johnny Reb]

Heh, since the other 2 wont be here till December. Shadow 2H2 is the best!

[Alistair Winter]

Johnny Reb, on 02 November 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

Heh, since the other 2 wont be here till December. Shadow 2H2 is the best!

I'm talking about the Phoenix variants. SHD-2H(P), WVR-6R(P) and GRF-1N(P)

[Navy Sixes]

I really can't speak for the WVR or the GRF. I've played around in Smurfy, of course, but until we can run them there's really no knowing (you know how the borked hit-box/scaling game plays out). I've had solid results with the 2H(P,) providing I can keep the enemy at a reasonable distance. I'm not feeling it as a brawler, but that might just be me.

[Asyres]

I think speculating on the Saber mechs is a bit premature -- for one, both of the phoenix variants will depend to some degree on the strength of missiles (which are currently on the weak side due to hit detection issues). Changes to missile effectiveness will dramatically affect them.

The SHD-2H, on the other hand, I struggled with for a while before coming up with a build I liked. The hardpoints feel a bit awkward -- it feels like it has too few energy and too many ballistics for a 55 ton mech. Eventually, I landed on 280XL, 2AC5 (4t), and an ERLL. It's not perfect, but it's fairly quick, and has respectable long range firepower.

[Blue Boutique]

THe Wolverine could be a better mech when it comes out since you'll be able to swing that AC arm around and be tougher with a STD engine. The Griffen may be the next ECM mech ala "Royal Griffen" yet all the copies disappeared with the Grand Exodus.

[Samziel]

SHD-2H works well with triple AC 2 but I agree that it's the worst variant of Shadowhawk. 2D2 works in so many ways it's easilly the best, but I love 5M as a sniper.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 02 November 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

I'm talking about the Phoenix variants. SHD-2H(P), WVR-6R(P) and GRF-1N(P)

Out of those, it's hard to say til we see the hardpoint inflation.

The WVR is the most likely out of the saber package, but the only thing I see it doing better than the SHD is jump jets distance.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Blue Boutique, on 02 November 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

THe Wolverine could be a better mech when it comes out since you'll be able to swing that AC arm around and be tougher with a STD engine. The Griffen may be the next ECM mech ala "Royal Griffen" yet all the copies disappeared with the Grand Exodus.

They aren't including the ECM varient and it'll have the same derpy arm movement that all post closed beta mechs have.

[Inflatable Fish]

Alistair Winter, on 02 November 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

I'm talking about the Phoenix variants. SHD-2H(P), WVR-6R(P) and GRF-1N(P)

the GRF-1N is... [sunglasses]... all right.

[YEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!]

[TercieI]

I think Tycho nailed it, you just can't tell until they're in-game. The Shadow Hawk went from "too big DOA" to "holy toaster* spreads damage even with an XL top tier" in about five days of actual use. I have hopes for both, but that's all they are: hopes.

*Edit: man, the filter's over sensitive.

Edited by Terciel1976, 02 November 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[Escef]

I've had very good results running the SHD-2H(P) with 300 XL, 11 DHS, endo, 3 jets, LL, AC2, 3 Streaks, BAP, AMS, 368 armor, and 2 tons of ammo each for the Streaks and AC.

The Wolverine I'm having trouble thinking of load outs that really take advantage of it. The Griffin, I'm thinking 3xSRM6&Artemis, 2 MLs, 325XL, full jets, endo, 11 DHS, 3 tons ammo, 368 armor. Which pretty much just makes it a CN9-A(C) with jump jets... But that might be worth it.

[Inflatable Fish]

alright, now that I have a bit more time to type, a more on-topic post.

the Shadow Hawk has set the bar real high for the next two Phoenix mediums. it's proved to be a fast, versatile and durable mech despite its gargantuan height.

now, while I'm not very impressed with the Griffin so far (at least the (P) variant, aka the All Right Guy,) I'm honestly positively stoked about the Wolverine. note I might be biased, as it's always been one of my all-time favourite mechs in BT, but even objectively, this one might turn out to be on par with the almighty Shaq.

... might.

what are we looking at, from what we know so far? let's see.


- 55 tons and a high engine cap: on par with the Shaq. remains to be seen exactly how agile it is in terms of torso twist, but I think we can assume it's at least as good in that respect as the SHD. if I had to guess, it might be a tad bit better: at least according to concept art, the mech seems stockier than the Hawk, which may mean a wider torso area, ergo a higher need for torso twisting capability.

- versatile hardpoints: basically a copy of the SHD-2H on paper, although the placement of the ballistic and energy HP has been switched and missiles are all in one section. also trades one BHP for four (!) more potential jump jets. take note, having the AC slots in the arm means two things: while it'll not be as good at shooting over obstacles, it'll retain more firepower while torso twisting, getting more mileage out of the shield arm. if I had to guess, it'll be better suited for brawling and less for suppression than the Shaq.

- up to 370 armour, up to seven jump jets, shield arm: all these bode well for the WVR's survivability.


nota bene: if the devs stayed true to the lore and made the head slot laser behave like an actual turret (which it is, according to lore, and even on the concept model,) as in follow the arm targeting reticule and not the torso one, I would be soooooo happy...


so, after a few pokes at smurfy, I've come up with two possible viable builds:

WVR-6R "Shotgun Surgeon" - will most likely be my target loadout. can switch to a regular AC/10 with two less jump jets.

WVR-6R "9A's Big Brother" - a quick, jumping zombie with tightly packed SRM salvos and two MGs for finishing off wounded prey.

[Christof Romulus]

I've already done this build on my shadowhawk, but it will double for my Griffin:
Dual PPC's, heatsinks and jump jets. It works almost too well, honestly.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b77b1ee32aebf64

[Training Instructor]

The Wolverine is going to suffer from an arm mounted ballistic that hangs too low to be all that useful, with no ability to mount an ac20, unless they surprise us with a variant that can.

The Griffin has all of it's hardpoints on the same side.

This is why I didn't buy the package.

[Asyres]

Training Instructor, on 02 November 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

The Wolverine is going to suffer from an arm mounted ballistic that hangs too low to be all that useful, with no ability to mount an ac20, unless they surprise us with a variant that can.

I doubt any variant will have AC20 capability, but the low mounted arm is less of an issue on jumping mechs. It can run 2AC2 or 2AC5, so it will probably be OK at worst barring issues with the ingame model.

With that being said, the Wolverine (P) has other issues (notably enforced use of missiles as a backup weapon, without meaningful energy slots).

[Bishop Steiner]

Christof Romulus, on 02 November 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

I've already done this build on my shadowhawk, but it will double for my Griffin:
Dual PPC's, heatsinks and jump jets. It works almost too well, honestly.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b77b1ee32aebf64

yup.

Up til someone get's within 90 meters.

[Bishop Steiner]

WVR-6just4fun

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 02 November 2013 - 10:40 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Unless a variant is going to come with ECM

The Shadowhawk 2D2 Takes the cake by a mile.

Keep in mind out of the 6 saber variants only 1 has ballistics on it. The other 5 are almost identical in hardpoints - Energy + Missile and basically all in the same locations.

So i think you'll see a lot faster variants int he saber packages. Wolverines and griffins running around at 100kph speed simply because they don't have the heavy ballistics to weigh them down. But I also don't think they will be able to knock the 2D2 off it's throne.

Now the Wolverine 6K might have a chance depending on it's hitbox. If it has a tiny ct that encourages a STD engine to increase it's toughness then it might stand a chance. But I suspect it will get the same treatment as the shadowhawk. Big Ct.