70 replies to this topic

[Kenyon Burguess]

WhenReaperComes, on 03 November 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

You expect everyone to memorize heat dissipation for every mech/weapon/heat sink combo for every map? You must have a photographic memory... I do not. Sorry, but I will continue to test heat dissipation after spawn. Better now than in battle.

Then again, if PGI would let us know what map we will drop on we could test it ahead of time. Fat chance of that happening anytime soon though.

yes we do. the community expects you to know the weapons, the heat values, and how the mech you created works on the different maps so that you can be effective. that is why the community made multiple forum requests for the test grounds in the first place and why PSA posts like this crop up constantly.

[Navy Sixes]

Rushin Roulette, on 04 November 2013 - 04:05 AM, said:

The thing about this is... some people will use just this method against you. Quite often I see my team moving to the right Ill fire my weapons into the clouds off to the left for a few seconds... and lo and behold we go around the corner and find most of the enemy team mooning us looking for contacts comming from the other side...

Yeah, that would work. In my experience, however, for every ninja like you there are four other clowns shooting up into the sky in the direction you're heading.

If you look around and realize you're dropping with a bunch of rock slayers, you can assume that...

1) ...these are people without much discipline: they are probably the ones who will shoot through your back to get at a kill, or move right in front of you when they see you have a good position (counting on your discipline in not coring out their back). They probably have no grasp on the concepts of focusing fire or target priority. They are probably the ones that will hear the cap warning and figure it's someone else's problem (they came here to shoot stuff!).

2) ...these are people who don't know their weapons, their mechs, their builds. They haven't been running their builds long enough to know how to manage their weapon groups' heat, and they haven't been playing long enough to know how to use the training grounds. These people, for all their "testing," aren't comfortable in their mechs, and will probably wind up mashing the alpha-key until they shut down (over and over) as soon as sh*t gets real.

3) ...all of the above.

So, summing up, you can assume in the case of 1) your team has no sense of team tactics, and/or 2) your team has no individual "aces:" people who know their builds and can finesse a mech and its loadout into some impressive results.

Hope you put a big engine in your mech... you're gonna have a lot to carry this match!

Edited by Tycho von Gagern, 04 November 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[NuclearPanda]

It's never going to stop honestly. Happens to at least one or two people every match I'm in!

[Kekkone]

Ensaine, on 04 November 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

And again with weaksauce..... was the mech acceptable YESTERDAY? So, what changed TODAY? Did the PGI ninja's go in and cut all your DHS in half?

Maybe i wasn't clear enough. It's not about acceptable heat levels. It's not about how many alphas i can fire before shutting down. It's about the actual percentage of heat that the weapons being tested generate. That piece of information will tell me when i can fire my weapons and hit 99% heat.

The whole argument against weapon testing is moot anyway. Rage at friendly fire, there's no need to throw a pre-emptive tantrum against a possibilty.

Edited by Kekkone, 04 November 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Firing your weapons at the start of the match is absolutely fine and acceptable... what is not acceptable is if you do it while you are in the front and others would probably be overtaking you in the next few seconds or if you are in the back and not looking in a safe direction (ie. not where there is a mech with a blue triangle above his head in your display ).

What would also be intelligent is if you only fire your energy weapons (Wasting missiles or Balistic ammunition is not a good way to use them).

Before you shoot you might as well go through this short checklist;

• Am I in the front? If yes, move over to one side and close to a wall/cliff where no one is and look away from the rest of your team.
  
• Am I in the back? If yes turn to one side and move close to a wall/cliff.
  
• Am I in the middle? If yes.. wait for the ones behind you to pass or move ahead quickly if you are faster than your teammates and observer the points above.
  
• Am I using weapons with ammunition dependancy? If yes.. dont weapons test until you see an enemy.. test your weapons on them.

Bonus point;

• Where should I aim while testing weapons? Mostly only into the ground or a wall/cliff infront of you. If you really need to shoot clouds... for heavens sake dont do it in the direction in which your team is moving, this will give your opponents a good indication of where they should look for you before you know where they are.

[Kain]

Testing your weapons at the start is pretty silly imho.(also firing ballistics and missiles at the start is really a waste of ammo)

If you are running a build which you don't know how it will react, maybe you shouldn't drive it into battle in the first place.
Just wait until you see something to shoot at, you won't overheat at the first contact ,will you?

That being said, people will keep doing it, and people will keep hitting teammates, and people will keep shooting the sky, because they can, nobody can stop them, and common sense is mostly non-existent

[Spawnsalot]

Are people really getting *that* upset about people checking weapons at the start of a round? As long as you don't hit anyone what's the problem?

"You should know your mech inside and out or don't bother dropping!"

This right here makes you sound like the ponciest ponce that ever ponced past a poncing parlour.

Do you *honestly* believe that? It's a video game, it's not a life or death situation. Maybe the person has just reconfigured their mech? Maybe they're checking weapon groups - you just don't know, and if they fire without hitting anyone when the game starts, what do you care? How has this action affected you?

"You're giving our position away!"

If the person firing into the air is doing this in or near the spawn, chances are the enemy already has a pretty good idea where you are, because the match has only just started!

And while moaning about it when you're halfway across the map is slightly more valid, any team worth its salt will have scouts that will have already found you and because of most of the map layouts, will have a pretty good idea of any routes you may be taking anyway.


As long as they don't hit a team mate there's nothing and no reason to stop people from doing this, and if they accidentally wing you sure, feel free to shriek and cry at them because they should really be watching where they fire.

[Modo44]

Spawnsalot, on 05 November 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Are people really getting *that* upset about people checking weapons at the start of a round? As long as you don't hit anyone what's the problem?

I underscored the problem, just in case more than 2 pages of text did not make it obvious.

[Alfa Tango]

Altough i am new player i can understand the annoyance. On the other hand posting here won't change much and sometimes it causes comical situations e.g. when i suddenly sneezed and fired my lasers into the back of the mech in front of me, who turned to fire his into my front, or a guy who wrote into the team chat something like "The next PUG who fires into my back gets it!".

Edit: Oh, i forgot the one time the guy next to me shot the guy in front of me and legged it, so i received "an angry stare".

Edited by Alfa Tango, 05 November 2013 - 03:38 AM.

[Samual Kalkin]

WhenReaperComes, on 03 November 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

You expect everyone to memorize heat dissipation for every mech/weapon/heat sink combo for every map? You must have a photographic memory... I do not. Sorry, but I will continue to test heat dissipation after spawn. Better now than in battle.

Then again, if PGI would let us know what map we will drop on we could test it ahead of time. Fat chance of that happening anytime soon though.

If you have such issues adjusting to heat usage on each map, then face plant yourself into a wall and do not fire down range into your teams path of travel and strip the armor from someone's limb or back like a complete a**clown s**t for brains.

[Fooooo]

I have my bindings setup so

mouse 1 = fire group 1
mouse 2 = fire group 2
mouse 3 = fire group 3

Mouse 1 and 2 I need to test sometimes when I change around weapons etc. Mainly because the groupings and placement of weapons on the grouping ui get all changed (or go to all group 1) and so I need to test which weapons are in which arms, and then re-set my groupings to match my bindings etc.... (left mouse is left arm, right mouse is right arm etc)

Most times I have generally done this in the testing grounds already, but I dont always do that.

I always aim at the ground and away from others, but I see you mainly are complaining about people actually hitting teammates while doing this.....which is..........a very poor effort on their part. Its not very hard to fire where noone is or will go, so anyone who does this is either

1. A griefer.

2. Clicked in/on the MWO window instead of alt-tabbing back into MWO. (which causes you to fire the selected group if using default bindings!)

3. An ***** who probably couldnt fight their way out of a paper bag anyway so just move on.........

Edited by Fooooo, 05 November 2013 - 03:43 AM.

[Ensaine]

Kekkone, on 04 November 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Maybe i wasn't clear enough. It's not about acceptable heat levels. It's not about how many alphas i can fire before shutting down. It's about the actual percentage of heat that the weapons being tested generate. That piece of information will tell me when i can fire my weapons and hit 99% heat.

The whole argument against weapon testing is moot anyway. Rage at friendly fire, there's no need to throw a pre-emptive tantrum against a possibilty.

Answer to question avoided.....

What changed since the last time you played that mech? Like from yesterday to today? Newbs see the 'pro' players doing it, so it must be ok........

Get the point yet? If not, then please drive through.

Yes, know your mechs. It's not hard, and actually pretty nub-lame to test fire at spawn.

[Tesunie]

Last match I just saw an Orion "Test fire" all his weapons after "accidentally" (on purpose) pointing all his weapons into an allies back. Then, as I returned fire, he slinked off along a different path of Canyon, leaving a team mate injured and confused as to who shot him. I informed, and we promptly lost mostly because of the disruptive pattern of the one person...

Now, I know not all of you are like this, but this is what a lot of us see when we are saying "Don't fire your weapons at start". Of course, not all of the test fires are as "on purpose" looking as this blatant attack was. But do try and understand where we are also coming from.

(Edited for grammar and lack of my fingers seeing what they are typing.)

Edited by Tesunie, 06 November 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[Luecian Deschain]

Worst I ever got as a pilot who has been playing light mechs was when someone at the spawn fired and AC20 into my back and killed me at spawn.

[Tesunie]

Luecian Deschain, on 06 November 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Worst I ever got as a pilot who has been playing light mechs was when someone at the spawn fired and AC20 into my back and killed me at spawn.

Good thing you where there to "catch" their test fire. Who knows what damage that might have done to a rock! (Trying to be funny... I don't think it's working.) Sucked, didn't it? And that is kinda our point. If no one fired at spawn, at least for 20-30 seconds into the game, or turned around and tested on the wall normally behind you, or some other preventative manner (Testing grounds comes to mind), events such as this wouldn't/shouldn't happen.

[StarGeezer]

Had just dropped into Tourmaline in my shiny new Jester last night when mere seconds after we moved out I hear the sizzle of energy weapons burning into my back and leg. I immediately whip around and see two mechs...an A1 Cat and a Thunderbolt. I'm reasonably sure it wasn't the A1. No word at all from the guilty party...no apology, no acknowledgement...nothing. I resisted the urge to alpha him in the leg and let him limp around the large map, but I was sorely tempted.

This is the kind of c r a p those of us who DON'T agree with "test firing" have to endure all the time. Listen, I'm an old fart, can't remember what I had for dinner last night most times, and even I can adapt to maps and heat thresholds on-the-fly. So this whole "can't remember how each mech performs" is a smokescreen for behaving like a douchenozzle. Just stop.

[Kekkone]

Ensaine, on 06 November 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Answer to question avoided.....

What changed since the last time you played that mech? Like from yesterday to today? Newbs see the 'pro' players doing it, so it must be ok........

Get the point yet? If not, then please drive through.

Yes, know your mechs. It's not hard, and actually pretty nub-lame to test fire at spawn.

The answer is there in the first of my posts you quoted but you seemed to have missed it. It's not a mech, or the mech, it's 9 mechs. What changed from yesterday? Nothing. That question is irrelevant.

Have you actually memorized the percentage of heat generated, you know the stat i'm actually interested in, for your entire mech-stall? If so, congratulations! I've absolutely no need to memorize them all when i can test it at the start of the round.

[-Muta-]

Appogee, on 03 November 2013 - 04:46 AM, said:

I think the point is... if you are going to test fire your weapons, make sure there's not a friendly Mech running past or in front of you when you do.

This should not be hard, even for players who are only marginally competent.

Signed +1

Just be careful with teammates that is all... I do it all the time

[Fut]

Tesunie, on 03 November 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

Sadly it will not stop, but you are right that it is bad form to fire your weapons at the start of the match. It is an unnecessary risk to your teammates, and can hinder your team if you do hit a friendly mech. Hindered team means less chance of winning. (Also, you look like a better player when you don't test your weapons in a live match.)




Personally, I test all my builds on Terra Therma. If I can shoot several alphas there and not shut down (preferably destroy a few of the targets without overheating), then I know I'm good. If I can Alpha 3 times on Therma, then I can alpha 6-8 times on normal temp maps.

This is called creating a balanced build that can handle anything. Setting your heat scale to work on any map, no matter the conditions. It is very helpful and requires no "photographic Memory", just a generalized understanding of the basic temps of each map.

Basically, make builds that can survive Terra Therma. If it can handle that map with ease (it is the hottest map I know of), then it can handle any map with no problem. Testing your weapons at the start of the match with the excuse of testing your heat scale is thin at best, and dangerous to your teammates at worse.

Now, I'm not saying you can't shoot at the start of a match, but if you are to do so, do it safely. Wait a few moments for the area around you to thin out a bit, turn around, and shoot open air, the ground at your feet, or a wall away from all your allies. (I'd personally suggest waiting at least 30 seconds into the match. That gives everyone time to start moving out and get out of the possible danger zone.) However, any time you fire your weapons, it is your fault if you hit a friendly (some exceptions apply). Do so carefully and with as much care as you can.

Your "Balanced Build" is all about the Alphas?
Your Alpha-Machine can handle anything?

This game makes me so sad sometimes.

[Geek Verve]

Geist Null, on 04 November 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

yes we do. the community expects you to know the weapons, the heat values, and how the mech you created works on the different maps so that you can be effective. that is why the community made multiple forum requests for the test grounds in the first place and why PSA posts like this crop up constantly.

Then you should just get used to being disappointed. Seriously, outside of the most organized, competitive match scenarios, that's an unreasonable expectation. You would almost have a valid point if everyone was limited to just one mech to use in all matches, but that's just not the case. We're not all Rain Man. We're not all so set in our ways that our mechs never change.

And before anyone pipes up about people who test fire irresponsibly, I am in complete agreement there. I'm referring specifically to those who do it safely and prudently.