117 replies to this topic

[Outrider01]

Problem with WoT, is that its managed by idiots with a hard on for cash. I paid for it, but found it to be a waste of money and would of paid for more if it was not for that ****** matchmaker. I am a decent player, but gave up trying to improve because after the 25th, 50th, 200th ect ect repeat ad nausem of bashing heads with tier 8 tanks that just faceroll you with no effort on their part you just throw your hands up in frustration.

Before anyone says L2P, let me point out that the frontal armor of a Sherman, a PzIV, KV, T-34 ect is around 70-100mm and their collective hitpoint pool averages around 450-650 with dinky guns built to fight things designed during actual WWII....these same tanks face tier 8s (mostly prototypes never actually used or things past WWII; like racing a Ford Model T car vs a modern day car) with 100-200mm armor, guns pushing 200+ pen with 300-400 damage and they have 1500 hitpoints average. So recap: A ****** driving a tier 8/9 can get lucky and face roll a tier 5/6 tank, because with a higher pennetration gun with more damage and a larger hitpoint pool + a thicker armor pool gives you better odds of survival. After awhile, those retards get pretty decent and boost their winrates by dragging their face across the keboard by stomping dudes that are no where near their level of challenge (try this: challenge a crippled man who can't walk to a race and you must run 100 meters...TA-DAH! YOU WIN! since the cripple can't run) And please don't tell me to aim for weak points, since all the tier 8s don't have to aim for any weakness on a T-34 / Sherman / KV since the entire frontal part of the tank is the equilivent to a 2 meter thermal vent that can be hit by an indigenous rodent and no amount of believing in some hookey religion will save you.

Lesser tier tanks are utter garbage, after a few dozen unfun matches you want to just jam a screw driver into the eyesocket and carve your initials on the back of the brain cavity of the next newb with a high pen gun that can bounce round bettesr then you and can take a couple hits while your Sherman / KV / PzIV / T-34 is a smoking wreck from his gun. Sure, there are the odd chance you bounce a gun (like my KV-2 at tier 5 a week before the change, that not only killed a T34 heavy that must of had a broken gun then bounced 2 more Panther or Panther II 88mm and still survived!) but the odds of you going up in flames is still greater then your chance of surviving no matter how good you are (except until you start to get to those tier 7/8 mediums and heavies...even those can stomp tier 9/10 heavies since they move faster to get behind the gun turret tracking like those broken *** top french mediums in comparison to german top tiers)

Edited by Outrider01, 18 June 2012 - 04:45 AM.

[FlakAttack]

Draco Argentum, on 16 June 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Oh look, we already have someone claiming P2W stuff isn't really pay to win because skilled players can beat a wallet warrior. MWO isn't even in open beta yet and its already happening. Even if the devs do turn this into a crappy p2w game there will still be fanboys defending it as 'totally not pay to win'. In addition you liked your own post.

Haha, yeah, the WoT forums are FULL of fanboys claiming gold shells and consumables are not pay to win, despite the fact that the definition of pay-to-win is the capability of the user to buy power with real money.

Edited by FlakAttack, 18 June 2012 - 05:24 AM.

[Proteaus]

WoT went from being a decent game to a game all about the cash , they got really greedy in the year I was playing that.
I would much more prefer a subscription based game than what I fondly term free to pay game.I am sure ppl playing this game
will soon discover what twist on free to pay mwo will be ,either it will be reasonable or it will be a fast money grab and
ruin the mechwarrior franchise.Time will tell.Because I for one, if they introduce premium ammo. will stop playing.

Edited by Proteaus, 18 June 2012 - 05:39 AM.

[nitedragon]

also in WoT they tend up beef up the Russian tanks and nerf all the others...some of the higher tier tanks never saw battle they never left the paper i.e. the maus.
now in MWO there is no better country just better players.

[Diomed]

The WOT premium tanks do impart an in-game advantage beyond just credit efficiency. The Lowe, the KV-5 and the Type-59 are broke, pay-to-win tanks. The Wallet-Warriors can try as they might to defend their cheapness but reality won't be denied. If you bought one of these tanks you are a chessy twit, just admit your lameness and try to grow, try to learn why people despise you and understand that paying to win deserves nothing but scorn and derision.

And yes, MWo needs to avoid the cancer that is Premium Tanks (Mechs).

p.s. and the terrible MatchMaker

p.s.s. and the lame, OP artillery

[RainbowToh]

Bolo Nike, on 16 June 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Um sorry to have to correct but lower tiers can damage higher-tiered tanks. I personally killed a E-50/E-75, one of them anyways, with a Marder II's HE round. Something like a 6 teir difference. They damage regardless of armor. Now they may not do much but with only a 3 tier difference they will still do something.

The point is that can you do that consistently, time and time again, instead of this one off thing, where you have that sweet setup to kill off that E-50/E-75 with a Marder II

[Gromkey Blackwind]

Line of site - my commander misses very little on my tanks.. but some tanks can see better and have more camo rating than my crew..thats ok.. its part of the game.. imagine WoT with no Big Red Name Badge over the tank so you dont really need to search for the tanks.. they are all shoot here neon names...

[Draco Argentum]

Diomed, on 18 June 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

The WOT premium tanks do impart an in-game advantage beyond just credit efficiency. The Lowe, the KV-5

This is why MWO shouldn't have premium mechs that are at all different on the battlefield. The KV-5 is one of the worst tanks in the game yet people are still convinced its OP just because its premium. Why would you deliberately annoy potential customers. Just use the LoL model and have all mechs available for c-bills or real money. More things to sell and no complaining. Its win win.

[Milano]

I had to chime in here because I have been playing a lot of WoT lately. I love the game, I can't put it down. I haven't any problems with premium tanks whatsoever. Premium ammo seems a bit silly but I've bought some and haven't noticed much difference over the free stuff. In fact, I'll probably not buy premium ammo anymore. I would just hope that in this game, if it were to have Premium Mechs, that these would not be allowed to be used in matches that determine who owns what planets. Should be a exhibition-match only type of thing.

I love the free to play model, and some of you just have to adapt because that is where gaming is going. It avoids piracy altogether, for one... and makes money just fine for the devs. Team Fortress 2 is doing great. Diablo III has a real money system.. WoT does fine in my eyes.. biggest thing I've bought was a churchill and I'd rather use my free m4 sherman.

Edited by Milano, 18 June 2012 - 11:52 PM.

[Vladdaimpaler]

This is my prespective of WoT and its buisness model. There is basically two types of tank players, guys who just play random battles and grind away and guys who came into the game looking for competitive play. For those of us who wanted to compete in a teamplay enviroment those early tier 8 tanks saved us alot of time getting to where we needed to be in order to serve our clans. What WG did was give players who are looking for that sort of enviroment an edge so we didnt have to waste our time in the lower tiers. It's a very effective model that I hope MWO adopts. The premium system with its micro transactions is the way to go.

A point of order very few people use gold shells 100% of the time. I would carry ten or so for hard angle shots on higher tier tanks. Most of my gold went to converting exp. Something I would gladly spend money on again.

[Vladdaimpaler]

Premium tanks are just effiecent ways to grind credits and exp. They're not op, nor are they some wonder tank that gives bad players an edge. They're just tanks with one really great thing about them (gun; lowe). For all those who hate on those of us who have put in money to play a game the way we like it you're tears make great solvent for cleaning our guns.

[MrM1971]

i can see the introduction of clan tech be it weapons armor heat sink improvements ect beeing added to the game thru the game store where you purchase upgrades to add to innersphere tanks. ( since sofar ive noticed every tank added to the game sofar has no clan tech )

Even selling clan mechs outright in the future wouldnt surprise me .

the way i look at it we want the game to do well or they will pull the plug then were all out of luck so the people who dont want to buy anything dont but dont sit there and cry if someone has upgraded there mechs by paying for it can destroy you ( become more skilled to counter this for if the clans where all mighty they would conquere the inner sphere and they havnt )

end all be all this is a game for fun and to me who cares what someone else has aslong as i have fun with what i have

[Woodstock]

Knusern, on 16 June 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

Will it matter if certain chassies cost money? Im guessing that some of the unseens will apear as cash only,
But a 60 ton catapult and a 60 ton Rifleman will still use the same arnour and weapon systems
It will be more like buying a skin (with a slightly altered loadout) than a killer-for-cash.

As long a as bought mechs functions by the same rules i see no problem with this.

I agree ..the unseen will be for cash ... but they wont be intrinsically better or worse. Just cooler.

how many will be able to resist buying their fav mech.

Its a good idea ... I wish I was rich enough to buy all of the unseen mechs.

Rik

[Woodstock]

MrM1971, on 19 June 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

i can see the introduction of clan tech be it weapons armor heat sink improvements ect beeing added to the game thru the game store where you purchase upgrades to add to innersphere tanks. ( since sofar ive noticed every tank added to the game sofar has no clan tech )

Even selling clan mechs outright in the future wouldnt surprise me .

the way i look at it we want the game to do well or they will pull the plug then were all out of luck so the people who dont want to buy anything dont but dont sit there and cry if someone has upgraded there mechs by paying for it can destroy you ( become more skilled to counter this for if the clans where all mighty they would conquere the inner sphere and they havnt )

end all be all this is a game for fun and to me who cares what someone else has aslong as i have fun with what i have

This can't happen as clan tech is of a HUGE strategic advantage. And the DEV's have blatantly stated that you will not be able to buy tactical advantage.

IMO Selling clan tech would kill this game!

The best option would be for them to sell skins ...camo ... unseen mechs ... logo's etc

[Cid Slayer]

Worth writing. (I've been a beta tester and played WOT since launch)

Things that I feel could better:

- permanent purchases should be what you bought, not changed later down the line with no compensation. For example, changing the look of your 'permanent' camo with no refund or ability to change it (without spending more real money).

- higher tier tanks have more hitpoints. This artificially inflates their power and I would much prefer a more level playing field with higher tiers relying on superior armour and arms than abstractly made up computer game numbers.

- Gold ammo. I have bought some, but as with a lot of things in world of tanks, it's too expensive to keep up. I might have an extra shell for a crucial clan battle shot but those people who pay to win will always have an advantage over those who don't have bottemless wallets. That's with me purchasing every premium tank in the game. I still say gold ammo is too expensive to play with.

Basically pay to win makes the game less fun. Premium tanks are worse than the equivalent tier vehicles that are fully researched (except for the Type 69 (modern tank vs 1944/45 designs) which they admitted was a mistake) so I have no problem with this, but any system that means you can pay money for actual in game advantage on a like for like basis is WRONG and will anger many.

How Wargaming.net deal with their mistakes is also a big 'no no'. Permanent camo changes basically told the customers that they got ripped off and their money is spent on things that could change at any time with no compensation. When they realised the Type 59 was too powerful they removed its purchase so that other players were then unable to match those players who already had it, instead of balancing it.

I still play WOT but if MWO can avoid the above problems, I know where I'll be spending my money!

[Proteaus]

If I was playing mwo and they introduce premium ammo , I would be out of the game that fast.

[Sam Slade]

Cid Slayer, on 19 June 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Worth writing. (I've been a beta tester and played WOT since launch)...

...I still play WOT but if MWO can avoid the above problems, I know where I'll be spending my money!

I'm in the same boat, and agree with pretty much everything you said. WoT was a really fun game with a good community at launch and was progressivly tweaked into a grind designed only to extract cash. The player base is now bitter and abusive.

Chief isssue however is the match maker vs. implied role warfare: WoT has scouts, snipers, brawlers, arty and so on... with no capacity to co-ordinate due to a blatently cash driven match creation system.

It would appear that MWO will not have these issues... so screw off WoT.

[ForceUser]

A lot of people here are assuming things that are just blatantly untrue. But I do not blame them. MWO WILL have a very similar model to WOT, I have seen it mentioned all over the place and more importantly playing WOT myself for a few months, everything I've read/seen from the dev posts/videos tell me the same thing.

BUT

There are also so many differences that people do not see/ignore or assume are not there. I do not blame people for this as I can see people missing it or some such in all the excitement of the game so close to release. We all have preconceived ideas in our heads because there just isn't enough info available, myself not exempt form it. I think the only way to fight this is to try and find official quotes for everything you consider fact, read up and look closely on any and all official info, don't take anyone's word for it.

That said here are some of my thoughts on many of the points in this thread:

Founders mechs vs Premium tanks:
The first problem here is the assumption (correct or not) that premium tanks are better than normal (but fully upgraded) tanks, specifically tier 8s. The second is that founders = premium. The interesting thing here is that so far I have not read or seen a single shred of evidence that founders mechs will be different to normal mechs MECHANIC WISE. The ONLY difference I have so far seen is that founder mechs have A) Different skins B ) have a C-Bill and XP bonus (Saving time basically). METAGAME differences. This means the 1st issue is a non event because founders does NOT = premium.

Unfortunately we don't have any info on load outs or hidden stats or, for example, why one 80t mech will be different(better/worse even) than another 80t mech except for skin.

An interesting supporting 'fact' is that so far Founders are ONLY available Pre-order and not available later on (EDIT: Except maybve for different regions if/once they get launched but that means you start over and with less than optimal ping.. so mhe?). The interesting thing conclusion that can be drawn form this is that unlike premium tanks there is no advantage to the devs for these mechs to be intrinsically better than same chassis mechs for the simple reason that the extra 'power' would only be apparent AFTER they become unavailable. It will ONLY be a negative and can in no way be used to make more money.

WOT Devs = MWO Devs
This is more a case of a personal player's mind set, either optimistic, realistic or pessimistic and I guess can't be intrinsically right or wrong as the only way to be proven right/wrong is to just wait and see. From the sounds of it Both Dev teams make/made the same promises and again from the sounds of it The WOT Devs have gone back on some of the things they have said, specifically No Pay to Win. Setting aside whether PTW is right or wrong, adding it into the game while having said you won't is wrong.

Now the mindset would go something like this:
Optimistic - MWO Devs will keep their word and won't add PTW stuff.
Pessimistic - MWO Devs will either immidiately or later at some point or have already(if you consider founders PTW) add PTW into the game in some way it's just a matter of time
Realist - There are games that have no PTW that are successful and there are games that have PTW that are successful but since MWO is not out yet I can not say if it has it or not. I will reserve judgment until the game is out. (I am biased as this is my pov)

Special Note: Matchmaker
I personally don't feel that it is worth brining this into the discussion at this time. So far I have read or seen nothing to indicate that anything even remotely resembling the MM will be in MWO. The MM sucks for so many reasons, chief amongst them because there a tiers in WOT. Again I do not see any indication of tiers. The mechs ARE weight based BUT the Devs have stated that they want to create a game where every class of mech has a role to play and that although different there will be a reason to play a scout mech. We will only see this once we get our hands on the game and it will also take a LOT of balancing but I WANT to believe.

I want this game to succeed so badly I just can't make myself believe that they would willfully screw it up for money.

Edited by ForceUser, 19 June 2012 - 06:39 AM.

[FlakAttack]

Diomed, on 18 June 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

The WOT premium tanks do impart an in-game advantage beyond just credit efficiency. The Lowe, the KV-5 and the Type-59 are broke, pay-to-win tanks. The Wallet-Warriors can try as they might to defend their cheapness but reality won't be denied. If you bought one of these tanks you are a chessy twit, just admit your lameness and try to grow, try to learn why people despise you and understand that paying to win deserves nothing but scorn and derision.

And yes, MWo needs to avoid the cancer that is Premium Tanks (Mechs).

p.s. and the terrible MatchMaker

p.s.s. and the lame, OP artillery

The matchmaker is lame, artillery is far too powerful for how random it is, and Wargaming are a bunch of racist retards. But I have to disagree with you on the premium tanks. The Lowe is inferior to the King Tiger in almost every single way. It beats the KT on literally ONE point: it has 10mm more average penetration. In all other respects, KT is better: better armor, accelerates faster, higher top speed, reloads faster, better aim time, better traverse rates (turret AND hull), better terrain capability... oh, my bad, they have the same health.

KV-5 is... well, it's bad. I can't describe how bad it is, so I'm going to skip to the Type 59. People have long thought the T59 was broken, but after playing against in the Panther quite a bit recently (yes, my tier 7 against a tier 8 premium) I'm left laughing. How can this thing be so OP if it can't even take on a Panther in a close quarters fight?

Should MWO have premium mechs? The only way I'd like to see it is if you can take existing mechs and spend money to turn them into premium mechs, with the same stats and everything, just higher c-bill income. That is what WoT should have done, and that is what MWO seems to be doing with the Founder's mechs. So far so good.

Edited by FlakAttack, 19 June 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[Sigmund Sandoval]

The basic game mechanic is so different between the two. You aren't dealing with armour thickness and penetration it is an albative armour system with finite limits on the amount of armour per location. The only factor that may be unbalancing is hard point types being more advantageous to boating but with so many other chassis becoming available the impact of any imbalance can be easily countered by introducing new machines that can perform the same if not better. I am not really concerned about it.