117 replies to this topic

[edger]

There were 2 big problems with prem tanks in WoT:

First, when T8 prems were introduced, they had special mm which put them as top tier in match, causing the rest of us in lower tiers to be simple cannon fodder for them. It caused frustrations to many players, but we got over it, saying that one day we will grind our T8 and be equal with them, and we did.

Second, and more serious problem is that people who never played a single game of WoT can buy T8 tank and get into battle, and due to their lack of skills cause 14 players in their team to lose(because T8 can influence a lot course of battle), and that fact alone accumulated great hatred toward premium tankers from the rest of community.

[Fluffy Kitten]

the big problem in WoT was it was tough to learn how to play.

people wanted to be instantly good, or good in a few games.

so alllllll the whining about MM, pay to win, premium tanks, etc, boils down to whiners who could not figure out how to play the game.
they got onthe forums and whined and complained.

WoT payerbase is great, and growing.
wot makes money
wot keeps new content coming
wot is NOT pay to win.

period

[Machiavel]

you can even grind to a tier 10 and still suck at the game, the reason there is people who hate premium tank drivers, is cause they live in a bubble where they assume that the game they play is "free" just cause its f2p... This is not exactly charity gaming where dealing with here... People who design the game need to be paid a salary so they can eat food, put their kids in school and what not.

T8 premiums actually are not mm to be top tiers maybe it was like that at the begining but at the moment they are actually tiered in just as any other tank infact they are often thrown into tier 10 battles.

So ye my point is that the people whining about premium vehicles are the guys who basicaly are playing the game for free and for sure they are entitled to do so, but the people paying for you to play for free should not be looked down on, they should be praised tbh cause their funding your gaming experience...

I think that the main problem with wot is that if you have a significant amount of tier 10s and 9s you will loose credits when using them, basicaly forcing you to get a premium vehicle to fund your gaming experience.

[Lomack]

I played a bunch of WoT and I wouldn't say the Premium tanks were the flawed feature of the game. Certainly if you nerf my premium tank (or mech as the case may become) I am going to be annoyed, especially if you nerf it compaird to other stuff of its same class.

However, I don't think this will be an issue with MWO. The armor every mech has (premium or not) is the same. Sure they can fit more of it or less of it on the chassy. But a 100 ton mech premium isn't going to have significanly differnt armor values. Its just not possible, unless PGI starts creating "special tech" items that are only obtainable on certain premium mechs.

Go look at Star Trek Online. It went FTP last year. It has a much more similar concept to MWO. By that I mean, that all the weapons are basically the same. A PPC does the same damage reguardless of what mech its mounted on. WoT had a differnt gun for virtually every tank. You couldn't compair one to the other well because they all had differnt stats.

As long as MWO keeps Real Money consumables down to nothing or to something that doesn't affect the outcome of the game all should be fine. Gold Rounds, Gold fire extinguishers, etc.. These are the features that corrupted WoT and made it PTW and should be the primary lesson to learn from that game.

You have to allow PGI to sell premium mechs. There just isn't enough money in subscription only income. But that dosen't mean a premium mech will be an advantage on the battle field only in the cbill or xp generation.

[Mara Kaid]

Is there a real issue that we have to support developers to make a piece of software we can enjoy? Clearly we know the line and if it's crossed then we just play another game. However, I'm for supporting the game a lot. If it means the developers are going to be paid more so they can code more then I'm up for it.

Really irks me that people don't want to pay developers for code, but they want it "free." Course that's what most people do.

Premium tanks don't hurt the game, they just make it so you can jump into matches with your friends. If your skill isn't enough then you'll die just as fast as another. Especially against experienced players.

Edited by Mara Kaid, 19 June 2012 - 07:57 AM.

[ForceUser]

http://tvtropes.org/...legedlyFreeGame
http://tvtropes.org/...ourWayToVictory

Gold ammo is pay to win.

[Fugu]

If one doesn't want a game to be P2W money can still be spent on things. On two things specifically:

1. Cosmetic things such as skins.
2. For saving time. Getting the same things one could get without paying anything, just faster or instantly.

So, basically like Tribes: Ascend is doing it.

[Crankey]

Morang, on 16 June 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Never ever was upset about any premiums in WoT.

But WoT premiums are not better than their non-premium counterparts. I'd prefer riding my non-premium German tier 8 heavy Tiger II to my premium German tier 8 heavy Lowe anytime (and it's better to see underarmored Lowe in my sights, I can just shoot square in the hull front and not aim in lower front plate because upper glacis is impenetrable).

AGREED in BIG letters

In WOT there are 3 ways to earn extra credits,

1) Be REALLY good in your tanks and generally earn more credits and xp as a result of another mega successful battle.

2) Pay a monthly premium for extra Xp & Creds per match.

3) Buy a premium tank that earns you extra credits per match. (My bad xtra Xp comment removed was incorrect)

Or hey if you have enough funds (& fair play to you) and you are good as well as owning a premium vehicle and account then whoopie doo you get all three.


The intent of the premium tanks in WOT is not to have a better tank (And believe me as Morang points out, they aren't by tier better than researched vehicles and also only come with a single set loadout) They just earn extra creds and xp per match.

Just about the only 'premium' items I dislike is gold ammo and consumables which Cannot be bought for standard in game credits and definitely give the wallet warrior a big advantage against someone using standard bought ammo & consumables.

My personal preference would be that you cannot buy a game advantage that you can't also grind for. That way end matches are 'fair' in quality of equipment be them mechs equipment, ammo etc. It will just probably take the grinding player longer to achieve but eventually he will be up there with the richest 'wallet warriors' on a fair and level playing field

Edited by Crankey, 19 June 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[Fluffy Kitten]

the premium tanks in WoT do not make you extra EXP, i dont know where you got that from.
they do have a credit multiplyer only.

they are not better than their same tier counterparts.

one thing i do notice is how much people rage about them being better, but here is the plain truth.
good players will get a premium tank to support ther tier 10 tanks.
good players play a few matched in them.
good players are well, good.
so a bad player or an unskilled player runs into them and gets killed, but will almost always blame the the tank, not their lack of skill.


if the premium tanks were pay to win, then EVERYONE would have a 50% or MORE victory rate in them.
but most premium tanks don not have a 50% rate, in fact quite the opposite.


in regards to gold shells and consumables,
the oponents of said gear will say there are a huge advantage.
check the stats there too.
most gold consumabels and shells have at most a 20% increase in attibutes, majority have about 12% or so.
that is not huge by any means.
also, it is attribute buff, NOT a skill buff.
you can have a tank loaded with gold, and still loose every game if your a bad player.


most players i have played with who rage about gold ruiining the gaem were highly intelligent "GEEKS" who are quite brilliant, and have much of the game mathamatically figured out.
they think they are great players, and just cant wrap theri head around the fact that another player just may be better than them, and when they get their ***** kicked, they instantly rage about it being gold. because nobody can possibly be better than them.

it was very very unsatasfying to hear them rage over the speakers at every third or fourth game.
i eventually just stopped playing with them.

[haseeb]

Well the Thing is WOT is rusian Game and They dont Think your way they are bussiness orented guys. they dont bother the community anymore bacause they already have enough guys on board that they can keep it going for a very long time.hope this game turns out different . i dont say WOT sucks it is brilliant game after so long but the game is restricted by their higher managment.

[haseeb]

****if the premium tanks were pay to win, then EVERYONE would have a 50% or MORE victory rate in them.
but most premium tanks don not have a 50% rate, in fact quite the opposite.****

LOLZ i have 59% winrate on Premiure tank although its about tactics used according to teams u get

[DoubleEL]

I've played WoT since the open bata (over 9k battles so far) and, yes, the there are op premiums in game...but the most OP prems in the game are the tier 5s heavies. They utterly outclass the non-prem T5 heavies. Add to that the fact that the Type-59 had no place in the game and that the thing should be pulled and the owners refunded their gold. All that being said the biggest issue wit hthe premiums is people bought the tanks but you can't but skill. It's been my experience that the team with the most Wallet Warriors is more likely to lose. And that is frustrating for players that know what the freak they are doing. On top of this is the flawed MM. Now the devs claim it isn't but reality begs to differ.

Someone mentioned how they, in a Panther defeated a type-59. That's not a measure of the seperate tanks by a commentary on player skill. And a lot of -59 owners still lack skill (I'm betting their average age is around 12)

Since there are no tiers in MWO there shouldn't be the MM issues WoT has. And it looks like premiums will be basically the same as the non-prems.

Oh, one last comment...a lot of people in WoT have premium accounts (me included) which I'm willing to bet generate more income that premium sales do.

[blkhrt11214]

Well they just made a boat load of ca$h from the founders packs so maybe they wont.... maybe...

[FlakAttack]

I don't know why everyone is getting caught up on premium tanks honestly. WoT's matchmaking, artillery mechanics, and gold shells/consumables seem to me like they'd be bigger issues. That said, matchmaking as it happens in WoT won't really apply to MWO due to a lack of levels or tiers. Artillery, in the form of LRMs, doesn't seem to be nearly as OP (while still remaining important and effective), and there doesn't seem to be any mechs/weapons/equipment that only money can buy. So... if things stay this way, I will support the game.

[Loki Farseer]

Seriously...

WoT Prems are too Powerful (LOL)... The Gold Shells are I WIN buttons (mmm)... The Matchmaker screwed me again... Meh

TBH if you have skill and are good you can mitigate all that crap in WoT people complain about. So they have gold shells.. use cover, use your teammates as cover, use the enemy as cover (my favorite), run circles around them... whatever. Arty got you down.. do some homework and know where the arty shadows are on each map and if your still getting hit in those areas...arty has repositioned SO MOVE...

Premiums in WoT... FFS the ONLY Prem anyone should whine about would be the Type-59 and TBH it has so many weak spots it's pathetic... but again you'd actually have to have skill and half a brain cell to use those weaknesses.


All that leads up to:

NONE OF THIS MATTERS IN MWO... NONE.

Why you ask? Because I can kick your Atlas's A$$ in a Jenner... You heard me right, I CAN KICK YOUR ATLAS'S A$$ IN A JENNER.

How? Cause those Med Lasers on the Jenner hurt as much mounted on the Jenner as on any other Mech be it 20 Tons or 100 Tons.

This game does NOT have the inherent problems of WoT and the diff Guns, Pens etc. If you stuff a poor player in that Atlas and me in a Jenner I will run circles around him, dodge, weave, use cover and blow him to pieces.

Skill is what will make you great in MWO, and I for one look forward to it.

[Lokust]

Gold ammo rarely gets used in any quantity in WoT outside of clan wars battles - where you fight to win gold income. It's just not worth it generally.

[Noth]

Fluffy Kitten, on 19 June 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

the big problem in WoT was it was tough to learn how to play. people wanted to be instantly good, or good in a few games. so alllllll the whining about MM, pay to win, premium tanks, etc, boils down to whiners who could not figure out how to play the game. they got onthe forums and whined and complained. WoT payerbase is great, and growing. wot makes money wot keeps new content coming wot is NOT pay to win. period

Gold ammo is the difference between being able to pen and not being able to pen thus is pay to win (this also hampers certain factions tanks such as the US TD in WW2 were given top priority for hvap and often ran with those as standard, thus are not historicallt accurate in game).

[RainbowToh]

DoubleEL, on 22 June 2012 - 09:00 AM, said:

I've played WoT since the open bata (over 9k battles so far) and, yes, the there are op premiums in game...but the most OP prems in the game are the tier 5s heavies. They utterly outclass the non-prem T5 heavies. Add to that the fact that the Type-59 had no place in the game and that the thing should be pulled and the owners refunded their gold. All that being said the biggest issue wit hthe premiums is people bought the tanks but you can't but skill. It's been my experience that the team with the most Wallet Warriors is more likely to lose. And that is frustrating for players that know what the freak they are doing. On top of this is the flawed MM. Now the devs claim it isn't but reality begs to differ.

Someone mentioned how they, in a Panther defeated a type-59. That's not a measure of the seperate tanks by a commentary on player skill. And a lot of -59 owners still lack skill (I'm betting their average age is around 12)

Since there are no tiers in MWO there shouldn't be the MM issues WoT has. And it looks like premiums will be basically the same as the non-prems.

Oh, one last comment...a lot of people in WoT have premium accounts (me included) which I'm willing to bet generate more income that premium sales do.

Can I ask which Tier5 premiums that you think is OP?

MM can be tweaked further, esp preventing lower tiers from finding themselves in matches that is 2-3 tiers too high.