247 replies to this topic

[Durant Carlyle]

I don't agree. I'm one of the people who left and came back.

I wasn't happy with the way the game was going, so I took a few months off. I played maybe 10 matches during the entire 4+ months I was gone, just stopping by on some of the patch days. I even deleted all of my in-game friend list (which was at the limit of 250 at the time).

They don't even have to be a fan of BattleTech/MechWarrior specifically to come back. They just have to be a fan of big stompy robots in general.

There are more people who leave games (not just this one) and come back than you think. They go do something else for a while and come back. It's a product of our current society's ADHD -- F2P games are constantly evolving, and people leave and come back whenever they want because it's FREE. No one is lost forever.

[Diego Angelus]

Newbies get killed by 4 mechbay limit.

[Moonschwine]

Blurry, on 19 November 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

Players still player and the game goes on. But leaving makes people bitter -> bad PR and a negative back swell. If you dont have to deal with it you dont do it.

If they find a more enjoyable game are the coming back? nope - you keep them here playing and paying or comp them if required. In the long run you win handsomely.

If you dont - you have 0 playing your game

Pretty much true. IIRC there is a business statistic that for every bad experience one customer has they will on average tell 10 people about it. If people are enjoying the game, they won't leave in the first place unless they have a good reason to.

The thing is I've never seen one concise thread that explains why people leave. I myself went on hiatus for a while and will probably do so in the future, but I hate to be lumped into a statistic saying i'm a leaver "just because". I don't know, maybe its the lifers feeling remorse or something.

Edited by Moonschwine, 19 November 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[Diego Angelus]

Moonschwine, on 19 November 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Pretty much true. IIRC there is a business statistic that for every bad experience one customer has they will on average tell 10 people about it. If people are enjoying the game, they won't leave in the first place unless they have a good reason to.

The thing is I've never seen one concise thread that explains why people leave. I myself went on hiatus for a while and will probably do so in the future, but I hate to be lumped into a statistic saying i'm a leaver "just because". I don't know, maybe its the lifers feeling remorse or something.

Its very simple why people leave. First mistake PGI did was unprepared and early launch of game and with that they killed all excuses they have now game is in half finished state with lots of bugs and broken micro transaction model that just doesn't let new players enjoy game until they pay up. Lack of content just adds oil to the fire and with no light at end of tunnel people have no real reason to continue to play because game changed so little in past year so there is not indication that it will change any time soon. Some may return if things start to look better until that I really can't say I see this game succeed if things keep going at this pace and with this kind micro transaction. And if they want to keep this micro they better get that UI 2.0 and CW asap.

And only reason we are still here and take all this {Scrap} is because we love BT universe and we don't have other choice.

Edited by Diego Angelus, 20 November 2013 - 02:32 AM.

[Ecto Cooler]

Diego Angelus, on 20 November 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Lack of content just adds oil to the fire and with no light at end of tunnel people have no real reason to continue to play because game changed so little in past year so there is not indication that it will change any time soon. Some may return if things start to look better until that I really can't say I see this game succeed if things keep going at this pace and with this kind micro transaction. And if they want to keep this micro they better get that UI 2.0 and CW asap.

And only reason we are still here and take all this {Scrap} is because we love BT universe and we don't have other choice.

You haven't even been playing for a month...

[Denolven]

Moonschwine, on 19 November 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

The thing is I've never seen one concise thread that explains why people leave.

I actually made a thread about exactly that, but it got thrown into the offtopic forum after a few hours, where it basically disappeared into nothingness.

From my experience with software development, game design and people, it's a miracle that this game is still alive - most likely due to the hardcore fans that refuse to let this game die, after we had nothing similar for like a decade. It's incredible. Props to you guys.

In a nutshell, I think people are leaving for very simple reasons:

1st barrier: being unable to play the game

Spoiler

The game has been available for quite some time, and we still see tons of disconnects. My friends never cursed about it more in any game than in MWO. And it's not only being unable to actually start a game, it's also things like getting kicked from the server just because they add a sale to the shop. No warning, no ingame info, no "you may finish, but not start a new one", nothing. Just a brutal punch in the face in the middle of battle. For a sale. In the shop. Or the tutorial? People want to run around and do stuff, but the tutorial keeps throwing fullscreen messages into their face and force-pausing the game in the middle of action, again and again.

Everytime a player is not allowed to play the game, the frustration level raises a big fat chunk. I know that on a technical level this is hell for the developers, but it's nevertheless the one most important thing: never prevent people from using the thing you want them to use!

2nd barrier: heavy bumps in the use flow

Spoiler

The player wants to do stuff. Don't break that. I didn't meet a single MWO player who did not have trouble to actually operate the game. It is easy to say "well off course, you are doing it wrong. Look you have to do this and that, in this order, at that time". But if 90% of the users clearly have trouble using your product, then it's time to face reality: your product design sucks!
They are making progress with things like arm lock and 3rd person view for the newbies, and UI 2.0 will likely increase the usability even more. But it still sucks. No information on what does what, buttons are in weird places and have weird colors, what little stuff is already there is hidden while useless stuff is allower the place, some people still have missing textures, and newbies aren't even allowed to play the "build your own mech" game. People are technically able to play the game, but there is so much headwind that they get the feeling that the game actually discourages them to play. Frustration level raises.

These two barriers are currently the reason why the game is a niche product, in my opinion. The thing is, they are not optional, not a "would be cool if we had this". They are in fact mandatory to have a working game. Because if you don't, even the people who WANT to play are faced by a wall of hindrances, resulting in this game being work, instead of enjoyment.
Normally when I look at games I rant about consistency and expectations/standards once in a while, and maybe features, but this game hasn't even made it far enough to waste my thoughts on that. The two above mentioned barriers are in the way.

All that, and I'm still like "ohmygodstompyrobotsandlasersIneedthis!". Did I have good times while playing? Certainly yes. Did I have WAY more headache than I should have when trying to play? Oh hell yes! Would I recommend the current game to friends? No, not until I am sure they would enjoy it. Currently it's more pain than pleasure and you have to be a robot nerd to even make it a somewhat decent experience. It's worth a look, but I don't tell them "you have to play this, it's great!", simply because it's a lie and I don't lie to my friends.

This franchise has so much potential (everyone wants robots and lasers!) that it makes me sad to see how much PGI struggles to get it done.

Spoiler

I even thought about working for them, until I realized that they are probably doing it in C++ (correct me if I'm wrong), which I hate. Why oh why do I have to care about the damn memory allocationmyself?
However, the idea is not off the table yet, as my main abilities are design and communication anyway.

Edited by Denolven, 20 November 2013 - 06:15 AM.

[DaZur]

Denolven, on 20 November 2013 - 06:08 AM, said:

Sounds like you've dabbled in the industry a bit, as have I (Contracted 3D artist)..

Your points are sound and valid, but one thing few people take into account and I'm sure you'll be able to appreciate it, is what influence did/does IPG have in a lot of MW:Os growing pains?

One unknown we can never have knowledge of is what kind of development and profit milestones did IGP placed on MW:O...

You know as well as I do, that most any developer, given the opportunity will work their code over and only release it when its considered internally as stable. They're like foodies... No one gets to taste the soup until it's done cooking.... More often than not, much to our dissatisfaction, publishers... particularly F2P publishers, want to get their monetary vehicle in front of potential buyers as soon as possible. Obviously this results in buggy code and dissatisfied customers.
Sadly, I think IGP leveraged an over-aggressive rollout timetable that IPG had no option but contractually placate...

As I see it, IGP insisted on getting the least viable product in front of consumers as quickly as possible to get the profit vehicle moving. This is evidenced by the basic (and buggy) FPS'esk mech-on-mech combat rolled out to closed-beta.

Okay... now they have a product that paying customers have grander expectations for that for all intent and purpose is barely above alpha code. So instead of dedicated development of MW:O, PGI is splitting their resources in supporting a half-arse product, struggling vainly to placate a (rightly so) impatient and paying player base while at the same time trying to move the code forward...

Like a impatient restaurant owner, IGP fed MW:O to the public raw... Because they opened the pay window, they were forced to support a half-baked product that took way too much time and resources to make edible and as a result, the rest of menu suffered gravely.

Now we have a three course meal where the side dishes have hit the table and are getting cold because the flipping main course is still on the stove-top.

All that said, I don't know who's more culpable... IGP for opening that pay window waaaaaay too soon or PGI for being over optimistic with their ability to cook a meal, manage a kitchen and placate a bunch of snooty food critics....

Edited by DaZur, 20 November 2013 - 07:35 AM.

[Blurry]

Ecto Cooler, on 20 November 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

You haven't even been playing for a month...

you are right I have been playing just over a month. I dumped what 80 bucks in the game and walked way.
I am the exact person they want to find out why I left.
I was the hyped up noobie ready and willing. Plunked down some payola and went at it. My conclusions are based on my experience and not only that but that of a paying customer in a free to play game.

Retention long term requires content and meaningful lasting content.

But alas I am just another drop in the big f2p bucket who walked away and they seem to think that that bucket is endless. It is with one exception - the paying players in a game you dont let walk away but they do it anyway and I dont understand why.

Edited by Blurry, 20 November 2013 - 07:28 AM.

[Lord de Seis]

I have nearly 40 mechs but I find myself consistently sticking to my hero or founders mechs because you actually make something without having premium time active. It is one of the most discouraging things about the current state of the game, I can think of tons of different customizations on Smurfy's but I never actually try them out because of the sheer time needed get the cbills to simply customize a mech to bring it to a level where it can be viable in a match.

I understand where PGI is coming from, that they don't want the economy to be so easy but the grind has been ridiculous since 12vs12 was implemented.

But hey they can change Artemis around because that was a issue everyone was really concerned about and it was really affecting the game right.......

Edited by Lord de Seis, 20 November 2013 - 10:49 AM.

[Denolven]

DaZur, on 20 November 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Indeed. Nothing more I can add.

I'm aware of most of the background stuff. I just don't like talking about it, because I didn't figure out what to make of it yet. It's one of the weirder parts of humans. Maybe give me another decade

[Sandpit]

Considering the number of new players that I see post here daily, I'd say no

[MerryIguana]

Ecto Cooler, on 20 November 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

You haven't even been playing for a month...

Ahem..

Ecto Cooler
Member Since 27 Sep 2013

Edited by MerryIguana, 20 November 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Sandpit]

MerryIguana, on 20 November 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Ahem..

Ecto Cooler
Member Since 27 Sep 2013

rofl

[DaZur]

Sandpit, on 20 November 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Considering the number of new players that I see post here daily, I'd say no

Point taken...

That said, "new players" and "new player retention" are two completely separate metrics.

[Sandpit]

DaZur, on 20 November 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

Point taken...

That said, "new players" and "new player retention" are two completely separate metrics.

Now that I can agree with but we don't have any data on that one other than anecdotal "Well my opinion based on what I've seen". Don't get me wrong, I think the new user experience leaves a LOT to be desired but that has nothing to do with the economy

[Ecto Cooler]

Diego Angelus, on 20 November 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Lack of content just adds oil to the fire and with no light at end of tunnel people have no real reason to continue to play because game changed so little in past year so there is not indication that it will change any time soon. Some may return if things start to look better until that I really can't say I see this game succeed if things keep going at this pace and with this kind micro transaction. And if they want to keep this micro they better get that UI 2.0 and CW asap.

And only reason we are still here and take all this {Scrap} is because we love BT universe and we don't have other choice.

Ecto Cooler, on 20 November 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

You haven't even been playing for a month...

Blurry, on 20 November 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

you are right I have been playing just over a month. I dumped what 80 bucks in the game and walked way.

The comment wasn't directed at you, it was at Diego. Do you need attention or something?

MerryIguana, on 20 November 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Ahem..

Ecto Cooler
Member Since 27 Sep 2013

Yeah, I'm a new player too, that was my point.

Diego was saying how there is no content and the game hasn't changed over the past year, with various reasons why he and others "put up" with PGI, lumping himself in with the grumpy veteran crowd that keep insisting this game is dying. I was correcting him saying how he hasn't even played for a month, so he has zero ground to complain about content or the past year of development.

[Lord de Seis]

Sandpit, on 20 November 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Now that I can agree with but we don't have any data on that one other than anecdotal "Well my opinion based on what I've seen". Don't get me wrong, I think the new user experience leaves a LOT to be desired but that has nothing to do with the economy

The Beta used to tell you how many users were online at any given moment, it was consistently around 1500-1600. I am really curious what those numbers would be like day.

[Xtrekker]

Ecto Cooler, on 20 November 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Diego was saying how there is no content and the game hasn't changed over the past year, with various reasons why he and others "put up" with PGI, lumping himself in with the grumpy veteran crowd that keep insisting this game is dying. I was correcting him saying how he hasn't even played for a month, so he has zero ground to complain about content or the past year of development.

Haha, I'm a grumpy veteran. Get off my tarmac you young whippersnapper!

Edited by Xtrekker, 20 November 2013 - 02:20 PM.

[Sandpit]

Ecto Cooler, on 20 November 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

The comment wasn't directed at you, it was at Diego. Do you need attention or something?



Yeah, I'm a new player too, that was my point.

Diego was saying how there is no content and the game hasn't changed over the past year, with various reasons why he and others "put up" with PGI, lumping himself in with the grumpy veteran crowd that keep insisting this game is dying. I was correcting him saying how he hasn't even played for a month, so he has zero ground to complain about content or the past year of development.

(insert witty "i'm a founder" line here)

I don't think it was so much to attack as much as it seems lately we have a lot of new players (which is a good thing) that seem to think it's not ok for those of us that have stuck around for nearly two years to have different opinions on things BECAUSE we've been around so long.

[Bullseye69]

I have bought both the founder pack and the overlord pack along with the heavy metal and sarah mech myself, yes there might be value in premium time and premium mech but and it a big but they would have seen more mc being sold if they would not have adjust the cbills earning down so much. The question everyone should ask themselves is this what do you do when you have a extra cbills lying around, when you were earning 2 million c bills a night that 14 million cbills in a week then you more likely to purchase that victor and give it a go now what do you have to do when all your mech bay are full you have to buy mc to buy new mech bays. That was a given that they would have been selling x amount mc a month as long as the cbills earning was enough so that the average player could aquire at least 7 million cbills a week. The other thing you do with cbills is to buy the module great but you still have to use GXP to get the module skill learned and a lot of people use the convert option to get the modules quicker and the GXP takes mc so peole would be dropping some money to replenish the mc used. Another way people would be willing to buy mc would be cheaper option on the mech colors if it was only a buck to camo your mech a lot more people might be doing that but since the camo color are not a buck a piece think someone stated that they had figure it was 3 to 5 bucks per mech a lot of people don't bother are wait for sales to do it.


The point I making is this they can make money by charging less since the volume will increase on the purchases if they don't make the remaining players leave.

My mother sales it best why should she buy a captain john derst bread for $2.99 from Kroger when she can get it at food depot for $1.79.


Rant ends.