247 replies to this topic

[Diego Angelus]

Ecto Cooler, on 20 November 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

The comment wasn't directed at you, it was at Diego. Do you need attention or something?



Yeah, I'm a new player too, that was my point.

Diego was saying how there is no content and the game hasn't changed over the past year, with various reasons why he and others "put up" with PGI, lumping himself in with the grumpy veteran crowd that keep insisting this game is dying. I was correcting him saying how he hasn't even played for a month, so he has zero ground to complain about content or the past year of development.

Well I Play for that time but was monitoring games progress since before closed beta hit (I was even in closed beta), but i I decided to wait for launch and what i got is more like beta launch then a full game. So i have pretty clear picture on progress of this game and what I experienced while playing in this small time confirmed my thoughts from just observing.

[Hostile Takeover]

Hey guys, new MWO player here. I came to the forums looking for info on C-Bill acquisition. I found the discussion here and would like to weigh in from a genuine first day (albeit six hours or so of play) perspective.

I like a lot of things about this game and was having a ball for a while. It seems a worthy successor to all the MW games I've loved, going back to the original Mechwarrior 2 and all the ones since then.

I played along with no real care for how many C-Bills I was making until I got tired of the free mechs. At that point I had around 4M and thought, "well, money seems to come at a reasonable rate so I will buy a medium mech and play that while I save for a heavy to play as my main." That plan worked great until I figured out that what made the C-Bill gain rate reasonable was the cadet bonus. Now, because I bought that first mech, I'm stuck with far less than I need to accomplish my goal and am suffering through the snails pace of non-premium, non-cadet gains.

Before I go too far, let me say that I understand the need for a cash shop in a "free" game. I know you can't make a game, host servers, and all the other nuts and bolts of an online game for free. I don't expect that. But I have to see the light at the end of the tunnel to want to spend money on a game.

However, it now feels to me like new players who don't want to put cash into the game are stuck being little more than meat shields in garbage mechs or back-door cap bots driving light mechs while the paying players get to have fun with whatever they want.

I don't want all the mechs open when I start the game. I like the progression that MW games have by starting you out in lights/mediums and building your way up through missions and salvage. But this isn't on the same level and I can see the writing on the wall now that if I want to drive a 70-80 ton mech (my preferred style) I am going to have to do approximately another 75 games to get there. At fifteen minutes apiece and 3-4 games a night on work nights and perhaps 8-10 on weekends, I'm looking at somewhere between two and three weeks of play. For my second mech. Which I will have to use stock for another week to pay for the alterations I will inevitably want to make, because that's the fun of Mechwarrior. I'm sorry, but that is too long to keep my interest.

It sounds like I'm going to be one of those people who leave and come back periodically hoping for a better game.

[Diego Angelus]

Hostile Takeover, on 20 November 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

Hey guys, new MWO player here. I came to the forums looking for info on C-Bill acquisition. I found the discussion here and would like to weigh in from a genuine first day (albeit six hours or so of play) perspective.

I like a lot of things about this game and was having a ball for a while. It seems a worthy successor to all the MW games I've loved, going back to the original Mechwarrior 2 and all the ones since then.

I played along with no real care for how many C-Bills I was making until I got tired of the free mechs. At that point I had around 4M and thought, "well, money seems to come at a reasonable rate so I will buy a medium mech and play that while I save for a heavy to play as my main." That plan worked great until I figured out that what made the C-Bill gain rate reasonable was the cadet bonus. Now, because I bought that first mech, I'm stuck with far less than I need to accomplish my goal and am suffering through the snails pace of non-premium, non-cadet gains.

Before I go too far, let me say that I understand the need for a cash shop in a "free" game. I know you can't make a game, host servers, and all the other nuts and bolts of an online game for free. I don't expect that. But I have to see the light at the end of the tunnel to want to spend money on a game.

However, it now feels to me like new players who don't want to put cash into the game are stuck being little more than meat shields in garbage mechs or back-door cap bots driving light mechs while the paying players get to have fun with whatever they want.

I don't want all the mechs open when I start the game. I like the progression that MW games have by starting you out in lights/mediums and building your way up through missions and salvage. But this isn't on the same level and I can see the writing on the wall now that if I want to drive a 70-80 ton mech (my preferred style) I am going to have to do approximately another 75 games to get there. At fifteen minutes apiece and 3-4 games a night on work nights and perhaps 8-10 on weekends, I'm looking at somewhere between two and three weeks of play. For my second mech. Which I will have to use stock for another week to pay for the alterations I will inevitably want to make, because that's the fun of Mechwarrior. I'm sorry, but that is too long to keep my interest.

It sounds like I'm going to be one of those people who leave and come back periodically hoping for a better game.

Only way to get mechs at decent rate is to buy premium time and premium mech oh and don't forget mech bays, but then again I wouldn't bother if I didn't have time to play that much because prices are insane.

[DaZur]

Hostile Takeover, on 20 November 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

Being a Founder I realize it sounds disingenuous but hang in there...

If you truly are having fun and enjoy the genre and you found the revenue pacing acceptable... invest in a hero mech. The hero 30% premium will bring you back in line and you'll have a mech that will allow you to play MW:O on your own terms.

Actually if you have means, I'd recommend getting the Guardian Phoenix package (at the least)... 3 primes with 30% premiums, 6 variants, mech bays, custom paint and skin & faction medallion and a month of premium time. It's a deal regardless how you look at it.

Investing in a game that by all accounts has patterned history of struggling to get things right can be nerve wracking... But if you really were having fun, it's worth the investment IMHO...

Edited by DaZur, 20 November 2013 - 10:12 PM.

[Sephlock]

@ TC: The upcoming artemis changes are a pretty clear move towards nickel and diming us even more, so don't expect relief on this front.

Honestly, although I really don't like it, I've seen enough posts from nerve-dead people who can keep grinding for months and months, who have ABSURD amounts of money, to realize that the amount of c-bills some of us have could potentially be problematic in the future (if nothing else, they're set to use powerful consumables as much as they want for months on end).

Therefore I'd suggest a compromise: Something like an extended Cadet Bonus.... or what amounts to mechwarrior subsidies that would boost their income until they reach some arbitrary milestone(s), to keep the noobs from leaving.

[Edustaja]

I really hope that PGI isn't punishing the new players in order to keep the long term players' money piles smaller.

Good Cbill sinks are needed for the end game and getting mechs shouldn't be like pulling teeth.

When most games have double income weekends the in-game money just keeps on coming (look at planetside atm.) The games also have variable sinks, eg. not everything is as expensive as the "end game stuff".

The lack of progression in the cbill model is one of the things that is holding back new players in MWO. The Cadet bonus should be longer and a more gradual drop in order to get people into their first few mechs fast and then make them "grind or pay" more when they've gotten fully invested in the game.

Maybe the CW will add progression to the finances

Sephlock, on 20 November 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

@ TC: The upcoming artemis changes are a pretty clear move towards nickel and diming us even more, so don't expect relief on this front.

Honestly, although I really don't like it, I've seen enough posts from nerve-dead people who can keep grinding for months and months, who have ABSURD amounts of money, to realize that the amount of c-bills some of us have could potentially be problematic in the future (if nothing else, they're set to use powerful consumables as much as they want for months on end).

Therefore I'd suggest a compromise: Something like an extended Cadet Bonus.... or what amounts to mechwarrior subsidies that would boost their income until they reach some arbitrary milestone(s), to keep the noobs from leaving.

I essentially wrote the same post while you posted yours

[Sephlock]

Honestly all of these problems can be solved pretty easily:

Just put up some Hero Urbanmechs for sale, at ... say... $4,000 each.

Make about five variants.

Take the huge windfall and use it to hire additional programmers to find a non-ghost-heat solution to thigh alpha strike damage, etc.

Problems, SOLVED!

[DaZur]

Edustaja, on 20 November 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

I really hope that PGI isn't punishing the new players in order to keep the long term players' money piles smaller.

Good Cbill sinks are needed for the end game and getting mechs shouldn't be like pulling teeth.

When most games have double income weekends the in-game money just keeps on coming (look at planetside atm.) The games also have variable sinks, eg. not everything is as expensive as the "end game stuff".

The lack of progression in the cbill model is one of the things that is holding back new players in MWO. The Cadet bonus should be longer and a more gradual drop in order to get people into their first few mechs fast and then make them "grind or pay" more when they've gotten fully invested in the game.

I advocated a "leasing program" for new players...

Let a new player pick their mech, allow essentially tier-3 customization and charge a per-use stipend for 14 days rental/lease, they return the mech or the player buys out the rest of the lease... which ever comes first.

This would get players into a mech they want, provide access to some of the fun of customizing, invoking a sense of "ownership"... and creating a minor money sink...

"Win-win".

[Xtrekker]

Some thoughts and ideas on ways to address cbill gain for new players...

After your cadet training, you could have some options:

Join a House. Joining a House could could offer reduced costs for certain mechs and equipment. Each house could also perhaps limit the tech available to you. Certain stock mechs would be available to you free of charge, just like the trial system. Bring back refit and rearm and discount it for that faction's common mechs. You receive a daily salary (days in which you participate, could be based on number of matches played), which is offset by a reduced match bonus.

Join the merc corps. All mechs are available to you, but at a higher cost. Refit and rearm is at a lower cost. Mercs receive higher salvage bonuses. No trial mechs are available for free use. If possible, I'd like to see a black market system that actually allows people to sell their mechs and equipment for market value to willing buyers. The black market system would have an initial fee to access it, but it would be reduced due to your association with the MRBC. You receive a reduced salary, but your match bonus is higher.

Be a lone wolf. All mechs are available to you, but at the highest cost. Refit and rearm is expensive. Salvage bonus is low to none (because you have no support structure to obtain it). You have access to the black market system, as long as you pay the full initial access fee. Assuming we ever get other game modes, a lone wolf could have exclusive access to Solaris or FFA style matches, which would award higher bonuses. You receive no salary, but receive the highest match bonuses.

Last idea...

I'd like to see a slider in your game options that goes from cbills to xp. You slide it toward what you feel you need the most. If you are just starting out and want to work on skills, you can sacrifice cash for the experience. If you no longer need experience and really need to boost reserves, sacrifice experience for more cash.

I'm sure all of this could be exploited somehow and there are plenty of holes in it, but it would be cool to add some variety to the style of play and give new players a track to start out.

Edited by Xtrekker, 20 November 2013 - 11:47 PM.

[Julian Tifflor]

Another problem might be...there is only the stick...no carrot at all. While other games often give you some things for free...MWO gives you nothing.

No free mech...no free camo...no free color...the max is some cockpit item oh yay glorious.

Why? too much greed? why only double XP weekends but no double CB?
I like the game...but when compared to other games you get nothing for free at all to make you feel kinda greatfull or get more motivated on spending money on MC or premium time.

No i dont expect free things all the time...but come on...new players only have one color to use? Give away the least played mech? one mech bay? why not? Why can other games do it but not pgi? Do they fear to lose some tiny bucks?

[Denolven]

Julian Tifflor, on 21 November 2013 - 01:22 AM, said:

No i dont expect free things all the time...but come on...new players only have one color to use? Give away the least played mech? one mech bay? why not? Why can other games do it but not pgi? Do they fear to lose some tiny bucks?

I suspect that such things actually mean big bucks to them, because from what I've seen in the world of software development and the things that PGI were doing during the last 12 months, the system they have right now has very low modularity. That means even small changes are a nightmare of work, because everything is entangled with everything. It's like you take out a table in one room of a house, and suddently in a room at the other end of the house a ceiling lamp falls down because they were connected over a dozen links, for a reason that nobody understands anymore.

EDIT: deleted random mumbling

Edited by Denolven, 21 November 2013 - 03:35 AM.

[Training Instructor]

Ecto Cooler, on 20 November 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

You haven't even been playing for a month...

And what is there for him to do besides buy mechs, grind xp/cbills, all while playing the same two game modes over and over again, with no bigger strategic goal?

Whether someone has been playing for a day, or since closed beta, there's only one thing to do in this game right now, kill mechs and buy new ones.

[Demos]

Sephlock, on 20 November 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

Therefore I'd suggest a compromise: Something like an extended Cadet Bonus.... or what amounts to mechwarrior subsidies that would boost their income until they reach some arbitrary milestone(s), to keep the noobs from leaving.

PGI should introduce a Cbill reward for the first win of a day (only once a day, not like the 2 XP bonus per mech).
Let's say 100kCB or even 250kCB.
The

Quote

nerve-dead people who can keep grinding for months and months

will see no big difference, but people with only a little time per day will see more progress.
And it will be an incentive to log-in and play more often...

[Primez]

Demos, on 21 November 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

PGI should introduce a Cbill reward for the first win of a day (only once a day, not like the 2 XP bonus per mech).
Let's say 100kCB or even 250kCB.
The

will see no big difference, but people with only a little time per day will see more progress.
And it will be an incentive to log-in and play more often...

I agree with this, it used to be mwo had a problem giving out exp but when they tweaked the rewards system they started giving out lots of exp and less cbills. Right now I don't think double exp is needed when the economy is hurting so much. If anything this would be an incentive for me to atleast play and win one match a day in my mechs and other people aswell.

[Training Instructor]

I've upgraded all my phoenix mechs with DHS, ES, etc, and bought several specialized xl engines just to try out various builds lately.

Still at 63 million cbills. PGI is failing the new players, but doing very little that effects me as a longer term player with an established stable of 51 mechs and a garage with at least one of every single commonly used engine for mechs between 30-100 tons. Whenever I buy a new chassis, it's pretty rare that I need to buy a new engine to make an optimized build, and that's a huge expense newer players have to go through.

[Diego Angelus]

Training Instructor, on 21 November 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

I've upgraded all my phoenix mechs with DHS, ES, etc, and bought several specialized xl engines just to try out various builds lately.

Still at 63 million cbills. PGI is failing the new players, but doing very little that effects me as a longer term player with an established stable of 51 mechs and a garage with at least one of every single commonly used engine for mechs between 30-100 tons. Whenever I buy a new chassis, it's pretty rare that I need to buy a new engine to make an optimized build, and that's a huge expense newer players have to go through.

Yeah its very hard for new players especially engine part i have one engine for 3 hunchback and one engine for my Blackjacks expect i need to buy another for 1X but that will have to wait since its very expensive and I need to get other mechs for drops. I have unlocked 3 modules but I'm yet to buy one prices of those are stupid they cost more then freaking mechs. Having to buy mechs with equipment is also dumb why do i have to buy mech that has XL that I won't use those bump prices for mechs more then double. Who is that reta** who comes up with those prices.

[St4LkeRxF]

If R&R was in game it would cost a lot to run mechs we run today because DHS, Endo, XL engine and loads of ammo are not cheap, so i can say i am happy with things they are.

For new players my advice would be to get Hunchback or Centurion they are good to grind cbills and will return fast what you spend to equip them.

Many new players want Atlas because it is big and scarry but that thing cost a lot to get 3 of them and master them, while Hunchback and Centurion are relatively cheap.Also they are not that hard to pilot as with them you can make few mistakes and stay alive.

[Pwnocchio]

I'm a founder but I stopped playing for over a year only to return after the 'C-Bill Nerf'.

It hasn't bothered me much, though I did have 60 days of Premium waiting for me and my C-Bill earning Founders Mech.

This game doesn't feel all that grindy to me.

[Diego Angelus]

Pwnocchio, on 21 November 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

I'm a founder but I stopped playing for over a year only to return after the 'C-Bill Nerf'.

It hasn't bothered me much, though I did have 60 days of Premium waiting for me and my C-Bill earning Founders Mech.

This game doesn't feel all that grindy to me.

Of course its not you even bought phoenix pack

[Pwnocchio]

Diego Angelus, on 21 November 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

Of course its not you even bought phoenix pack

Addendum: It also didn't seem grindy to me before I bought the Pheonix package.

My point of reference is the years I've played World of Tanks, which is much more grindy in some ways. For example, if you want to top tier tank in WoT you are going to be grinding for several months to get it. In the same time span I could trivially unlock the masters efficiency on any Assault Mech on MWO.