14 replies to this topic

[Sable Dove]

I can get why the Spider and Awesome were first, and an argument could be made for the Orion, but the Atlas as a first-round? Why did the Atlas get a pass before the Cicada and Dragon? Surely they needed it more then the Atlas.

And the Centurion as a second-pass? What's the rush? It doesn't need any significant changes. All they should be doing is splitting the pelvis. So why does the Catapult (and pretty much every other mech) have to wait for another patch (or more) so that the Centurion can get very minor update?

I can't speak to the Orion or Treb, since I don't pilot them, but Atlas should be near the end of the list in terms of priority, and the Centurion even further.

Dragon probably should have been in the first pass, and Catapult in the second. Bump the Centurion for a mech that doesn't already have great hitboxes, like the Raven (giant legs, weird rear-CT that's hittable from the front), or the Jenner (with it's giant CT and non-existant STs).


Basically, I don't understand why they're not prioritizing the mechs that need hitbox passes most. They did for some, but then they also included mechs that need updating the least with them.

[Coralld]

The reason for the Atlas is because a few patches back some how some way the Founders Atlas had its head hit box enlarged and people were really mad about that. So that's why I'm guessing they figured, 'well, we are already working on the head hit box on the Founders Atlas, might as well get the whole line out of the way.'

[FupDup]

Because reasons.

[Jman5]

The Centurion has the worst hitbox problem of any mech, but because it's a medium people give it a pass. When you knock the arms off a centurion it leaves behind these massive nubs that look like it's part of the shoulder. When you shoot the arm nubs, the shoulders only take 50% damage.

I'm not confident they are ever going to address this, but it is a major balance issue.

[FupDup]

Jman5, on 01 December 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

The Centurion has the worst hitbox problem of any mech, but because it's a medium people give it a pass. When you knock the arms off a centurion it leaves behind these massive nubs that look like it's part of the shoulder. When you shoot the arm nubs, the shoulders only take 50% damage.

I'm not confident they are ever going to address this, but it is a major balance issue.

The "nubs" effect is present on every single mech in the game. The difference with the Centurion is simply that the nubs are in a position that is more optimal for intercepting shots than most other mechs.

Edited by FupDup, 01 December 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

Could be people at PGI llike to run those mechs and wanted them fixed. Or it could be 'because'. Because the spider was most complained about. The atlas already needed adjusted and why not start somewhere? If it had been the Commando and Victor we'd be asking the same questions. Why those mechs?

My two bits on why orion and awesome were selected was because of internal metrics. PGI is tracking everything and I bet they have reports that tell them what location was damaged by what weapon and they say 'spikes' with those two mechs, or low as the case maybe with the spider.

[Sable Dove]

Jman5, on 01 December 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

The Centurion has the worst hitbox problem of any mech, but because it's a medium people give it a pass. When you knock the arms off a centurion it leaves behind these massive nubs that look like it's part of the shoulder. When you shoot the arm nubs, the shoulders only take 50% damage.

I'm not confident they are ever going to address this, but it is a major balance issue.

That's working as intended, and honestly, other mechs need to be brought up to the Centurion's level, in terms of hitboxes. Many mechs have virtually non-existent hitboxes for destroyed arms. Except the Commando, which appears to have actually-non-existent hitboxes.

Centurion is basically the poster child for how hitboxes should be laid out. And even with that advantage, it's still largely a brawler in a game where brawling almost never happens, dependent on SRMs, which have terrible hit registration.

[Jman5]

FupDup, on 01 December 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

The "nubs" effect is present on every single mech in the game. The difference with the Centurion is simply that the nubs are in a position that is more optimal for intercepting shots than most other mechs.

The damage transfer formula is the same as all the other mechs but the amount of arm debris left over is no where close to any other mech in the game. It's huge. Literally almost as big as the side torso itself. There is no other mech in the game with arm debris that's practically the size of the side torso. On top of that it looks like side torso.

Most mechs will have the arms almost completely detach. The Awesome's arms just slough right off exposing nearly the entire side torso.

The art on debris is inconsistent from mech to mech and it makes a big difference on how mechs are balanced.

Sable Dove, on 01 December 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

That's working as intended, and honestly, other mechs need to be brought up to the Centurion's level, in terms of hitboxes. Many mechs have virtually non-existent hitboxes for destroyed arms. Except the Commando, which appears to have actually-non-existent hitboxes.

Centurion is basically the poster child for how hitboxes should be laid out. And even with that advantage, it's still largely a brawler in a game where brawling almost never happens, dependent on SRMs, which have terrible hit registration.

It is not working as intended or there would be some semblance of balance between the mechs. This was an artwork design that just wasn't thought through. They have since been more consistent in this regard, but the early mechs are inconsistent.

I actually agree with you that it should be done more, but what I don't like is having it limited to a couple of random early mechs. I don't like the fact that the 50 ton centurion gets this special bonus, while his medium peers get shafted. If PGI isn't willing to buff every other mech, they need to bring the oddities back in line with the rest.

Edited by Jman5, 01 December 2013 - 08:53 PM.

[Deathlike]

Here's a hint, it has to do with $$$$$.

3 of 4 mechs that are getting a hitbox change have a hero mech.

Notice that the 3 of 4 of the previous mechs with "adjustments" have a hero mech (though, only 2 of them were through consistent whining).

Expect a Dragon hero sale in the near future though.

Also, Paul probably is "done balancing" stuff... as "revising" the Artemis c-bill sink is more important than making the Flamer, NARC, and LPL better.

[aniviron]

Jman5, on 01 December 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

The Centurion has the worst hitbox problem of any mech, but because it's a medium people give it a pass. When you knock the arms off a centurion it leaves behind these massive nubs that look like it's part of the shoulder. When you shoot the arm nubs, the shoulders only take 50% damage.

I'm not confident they are ever going to address this, but it is a major balance issue.

I was going to say things, but Sable said what I was going to, really. So here it is again, because it needs to be said again.

Sable Dove, on 01 December 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

That's working as intended, and honestly, other mechs need to be brought up to the Centurion's level, in terms of hitboxes. Many mechs have virtually non-existent hitboxes for destroyed arms. Except the Commando, which appears to have actually-non-existent hitboxes.

Centurion is basically the poster child for how hitboxes should be laid out. And even with that advantage, it's still largely a brawler in a game where brawling almost never happens, dependent on SRMs, which have terrible hit registration.

Give every mech Cent-style hitboxes. All of them. Broad side torsi, arms that cover the shoulder, narrow CTs, pelvis split between legs. This is the only way we are ever going to increase the time-to-kill without making the weapons feel bad. The only other options are making the weapons deal less damage, fire less often, or removing convergence, all of which make the guns less fun to shoot.

If you make the CT narrow like on the Cent and Stalker you have mechs that are like everyone is asking for, and behave more like in the lore and TT- huge machines that take forever to bring down, where you have to tear and rip components apart, arms, legs, guns, and armor being shorn off before the mech finally goes down. Right now it's far far too easy to hit the CT, so everything just gets cored right away unless the defending pilot is very good or very lucky.

[Tezcatli]

The Atlas is obvious. Too many lights could just camp right under it's *** and CT it.

And hell yes the Treb needs a hit box change. It's as tall, if not taller, then an Orion. But it's torso alone is as wide as the whole Orion, arms included.

Everyone has their opinion. PGI has theirs. As long as they actually get around to fixing hit-boxes all around. Then that's what really matters.

[Khobai]

Quote

And hell yes the Treb needs a hit box change. It's as tall, if not taller, then an Orion. But it's torso alone is as wide as the whole Orion, arms included.

Even if they redo the hitboxes it still wont change the fact the Treb is as tall as most assault mechs with half the armor.

[OneEyed Jack]

The Cent is quite possibly up because the complaints were mounting about people getting used to shooting out the groin, denying it the cockroach-like survivability Std engine Cent drivers had come to know and love.

Personally, though, I'm kinda expecting it to get adjusted to be more like other mechs, with smaller arm nubs and a wider CT/narrower STs, so they lose their vaunted survivability. It's just the kind of thing I can imagine PGI doing (hey, they made the Atlas STs bigger! ).

[TercieI]

If I was doing them in batches, I wouldn't want to start with all the "biggies." I'd want to space those out so each could get good attention and do a few small tweaks along with each. Easier for me to digest, easier for the community to digest.

I don't know why I feel benefit of the doubt is called for here, but I do.

[Deathlike]

Khobai, on 02 December 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

Even if they redo the hitboxes it still wont change the fact the Treb is as tall as most assault mechs with half the armor.

The sad thing is that they look a lot like Highlanders from a distance. Too bad they aren't.