41 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

mytilus edulis, on 09 December 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Is there ever a valid reason to use LPLs?

I use a pair of them, plus an ERPPC, just for kicks while mastering my Phoenix Battlemaster. So, if these weapons are as bad as people say they are, anyone who has been killed by me these last few days should be ashamed, really ashamed.

Edited by Mystere, 10 December 2013 - 09:31 AM.

[3endless8oogie]

Mystere, on 10 December 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

I use a pair of them, plus an ERPPC, just for kicks while mastering my Phoenix Battlemaster. So, if these weapons are as bad as people say they are, anyone who has been killed by me these last few days should be ashamed, really ashamed.

As long as your teammates keep shooting with their ac´s you can always get some kills...

[AC]

Pulse lasers need a rework from the ground up. Despite the visual, all they are is a shorter duration regular laser. We basically get the same mechanic twice for two different weapons groups. Pulse lasers need their own mechanic.....


My suggestion is that they are extremely fast firing regular lasers with a short (very short) beam durration. For example:

Large pulse lasers should fire every .5 seconds and do 3 damage per shot (beam duration of .1 seconds)
Medium pulse lasers should fire every .33 seconds and do 1.5 damage per shot (beam duration of .08 seconds)
Small pulse lasers should fire every .25 seconds and do .75 damage per shot (beam duration of .05 seconds)

The damage output will of course be changed until they are useful but not overpowered.

If you are going to call them "Pulse Lasers", for the love of Mechwarrior make them pulse!!!!

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Greyboots, on 10 December 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

So, let's say you group large lasers differently. Firing 2 large lasers and one ER Large laser suddenly becomes cooler than firing 3 large lasers.

Which doesn't make sense. You gain added range on one weapon while the same damage of 3 large lasers at 450m or less for a cooler overall performance. Same weight, same crits.

This sort of defies basic physics so doesn't "make sense" and is therefore immersion breaking. From a balance perspective? It doesn't make a lot of sense IMO.



Yes.

The Large Pulse Laser is NOT a large laser. It's the smallest PPC.

PPC: 7 tons, 3 Criticals, 2.5 DPS, 3.75 HPS, min range 90m, optimal range 540m.
LPL: 7 tons, 3 criticals, 2.75 DPS, 2.21 HPS, no min range, 300m optimal range.

Reduced range, slightly higher DPS, greatly reduced heat. Baby PPC with no min range pretty much.

It's superior to the PPC or ERPPC at ranges under 300m in all respects except pinpoint damage and can be combined with other PPCs without accruing ghost heat. Considered in this way it's actually not a bad option.

However, it's not worth the extra when stacked up against other Large Lasers. It's 2 tons heavier, it takes an extra critical, it's hotter over time due to the shorter firing cycle (although it can be fired at the same rate manually for higher DPS than the other large lasers), the range is poor and it accrues ghost heat with the others. It's just too much to pay for the reduced beam duration and higher damage.

It only stacks up poorly against the other Large Lasers.

So 2 PPCs and 2 large pulse lasers will give you good energy-only burst damage from 90-300m that only takes 4 hardpoints and doesn't accrue Ghost Heat. While it will give you less damage at longer ranges it won't leave you defenseless at ranges under 90m either.

Disclaimer: Honestly? I think this is broken as it's far too "neiche". It's simply 1 ton too heavy and should possibly be in it's own ghost heat group as well.

You mean like this?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...321a72266d42298
Not sure Joe would like it - no AC20

[Greyboots]

AC, on 10 December 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Pulse lasers need a rework from the ground up. Despite the visual, all they are is a shorter duration regular laser.

Well yes. Shorter range, extra weight, extra heat for shorter beam duration and increased damage per hit and faster fire rate.

Just like ER weapons are the same weapon with more range for extra heat. There's no extra mechanic involved.

Quote

We basically get the same mechanic twice for two different weapons groups. Pulse lasers need their own mechanic.....

Pulse Lasers are not a new weapon group. They are "lasers". Not to say they need or don't need a change, just pointing out that you are sort of going to have to justify that "different weapon group" thing if you are hoping to effect change.

[Greyboots]

Mystere, on 10 December 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

I use a pair of them, plus an ERPPC, just for kicks while mastering my Phoenix Battlemaster. So, if these weapons are as bad as people say they are, anyone who has been killed by me these last few days should be ashamed, really ashamed.

IMO they aren't "bad" weapons. I think it's worth saying that there's a difference between "bad" and "could use a little tweaking".

They don't fit the current meta but meta rarely mirrors the truth. Not to say they couldn't use a little love BUT you're right, they certainly aren't terrible and worthy of en entire redesign.

[Greyboots]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 10 December 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

You mean like this? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...321a72266d42298 Not sure Joe would like it - no AC20

Yup, pretty much exactly like that.

Like I said, the only reason I think it's broken is that it's too "neiche". If brawling ever comes back? This is going to be a very powerful setup.

[Warblood]

Quote

Is there ever a valid reason to use LPLs?

AWS-8Q - 2LL 2LPL 1PPC w/ AMS&BAP 300xl eng. 18DHS
[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e09f6bed15a69a0[/smurfy]

Edited by Warblood, 12 December 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Because The Maths are dumb and one of the most poorly designed, thought out, or implemented systems in any game ever.

mytilus edulis, on 09 December 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Is there ever a valid reason to use LPLs?

If you're in a league where PPCs aren't allowed and you have 30 seconds to setup. And.... well, that's about it.

Warblood, on 12 December 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

AWS-8Q - 2LL 2LPL 1PPC w/ AMS&BAP 300xl eng. 18DHS
[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e09f6bed15a69a0[/smurfy]

He was asking for valid reasons to run LPL, not horror shows. You know the 2 LL and 2 LPL share the same Ghost Heat pool, right?

EDIT: PS, no endo? Really?

Edited by Victor Morson, 12 December 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[Warblood]

Quote

You know the 2 LL and 2 LPL share the same Ghost Heat pool, right?

the LL r grp'd n LpL are on chin fire, I don't alpha unless its the first shot n I'm running cold, ill then pop a coolant n start my firing rotation.. I try to keep myself at 4-500m at all times when im fighting, its easier to get cover if someone gets wise about me or if I need a safe place to cool down . I like playing the mid. range laser support mech

Edited by Warblood, 12 December 2013 - 04:46 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Warblood, on 12 December 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

AWS-8Q - 2LL 2LPL 1PPC w/ AMS&BAP 300xl eng. 18DHS
[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e09f6bed15a69a0[/smurfy]

The 8Q, as it currently stands, is garbage (for me at least...and most likely for many others).

Why take that AWE-8Q when I can just take a Victor instead? For the fun of trying to cycle weapon groups to avoid a stupid, arbitrary ghost heat mechanism???

[Rhent]

"Because"

Because is the main reason for every decision about the game. Seriously, its a good thing the "Decider" at Piranha can't run for the Presidency. We'd have nuclear winter a week after that election.

[MustrumRidcully]

Rhent, on 12 December 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

"Because"

Because is the main reason for every decision about the game. Seriously, its a good thing the "Decider" at Piranha can't run for the Presidency. We'd have nuclear winter a week after that election.

Nah, ghost heat would prevent the winter.

[Karl Streiger]

MustrumRidcully, on 12 December 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

Nah, ghost heat would prevent the winter.

Because the Jump Shake - will drive the Nukes off target - and when hitting water they deal no damage?

[Quizzical Coconut]

Greyboots, on 10 December 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

The Large Pulse Laser is NOT a large laser. It's the smallest PPC.

...Except it's not a projectile, has duration, trades the one thing high tonnage energy weapons have in their favor (range)...

No, the LPL is much more like 2 medium lasers.

LPL: 2.75 dps, 300 range
2 ML: 2.5 dps, 270 range.

So it has 10% more dps and 11.11% more range, a virtually equal heat/damage ratio; all for the paltry price of 7 tons.

[TexAce]

Nryrony, on 10 December 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:

That would be effective on 0 mechs even without ghost heat yay.

My 3LL+2LPL Phract was a beast before ghostheat. Climbed up to top 20 in one tournament, with a 2.25 K/D

[AztecD]

Warblood, on 12 December 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

AWS-8Q - 2LL 2LPL 1PPC w/ AMS&BAP 300xl eng. 18DHS
[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e09f6bed15a69a0[/smurfy]

og god , why defame an 8Q with an XL Engine the thing is a barn with legs.

The problem with ghost heat is that double heatsinks just dont cut it at 1.4

[Sug]

LPL, reduce the cooldown to 2.5s and the duration to 0.5. Oh look, a short ranged high dps high heat weapon. fixed.

[Barantor]

I've been running this, because I can.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0a03528ab1a6af9

I've only overheated twice, and that is without eliting it yet and because I knew I could kill what I shot at with an alpha (with no enemy retaliation).

LPL aren't superb, but with a small tweak they could be great.

[Profiteer]

Damage: (10.6) increase to 11.
Heat: (8.5) reduce to 8.

You now have a nice medium to brawling range weapon.