8 replies to this topic

[CaptianViolence]

e.g. 3 – LRM-20s
Inner Sphere Tech:
Heat: 6
Damage: 1.1 /missile
Min Range: 180m
Max Range: 1000m
Tons: 10
Crit(Slots): 5

Clan Tech:
Heat: 6
Damage: 1.1 /missile
Min Range: 0m
Max Range: 1000m
Tons: 5
Crit(Slots): 4

The fact that the Clan version of LRM-20s have no minimum range is a huge problem. What you effectively now have is a Streak SRM-20 available to you if we cut minimum range to 0. The fact that this weapon weighs half as much and takes up 1 less slot makes this a significantly over powered system.
The following will probably be applied to this weapon system:

Base heat increase to [7]
Minimum range stays at 180m but LRMs can be fired. The damage ramps from 0 to 1.1 in an exponential curve. i.e. Damage is minimal in the [0]-[100]m range and increases to full damage between [101] and [180]m ranges.
Possible adjustment to [7] tons.

Now the weapon system still keeps it “no-minimum” range property and it still keeps a weight reduction and generates a little more heat. Again, this will translate into better piloting skills, fire timing and heat management to take full advantage of the Clan LRM-20.



That being said, when dealing with core values like tonnage or crits, we risk the chance of breaking a standard build in a future Clan BattleMech in terms of its weight capacity or space capacity. This is why this third area of balancing new mechanics takes the longest time and will have to be revisited now and again.
************************************************************************************************************************
In stead of screwing around with the weapons base stats like this and attempting to add a dmg curve why not not just make the weapon dumb-fire under 180m.

so from 0-180m the missles do not track, tracking only starts at 180m. this keeps the no min. and stops the weapon from being the streak 20 with simple change and no changeing of stock clan design

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd call that dumb-fire, where LRMs cannot lock on within that specific range.

setting lock-on to be beyond 180 M or even 270 M could work.



I'd also like to look at the possibility of more of a "ripple" fire style with missiles in general.

Currently all missiles fire at once, it would be interesting to have them quickly fire in a stream of missiles (for example, sorta how missiles fly out of a single narc tube, but faster).

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Dumb-fire cLRMs would be like giving them SRM10s when too close, which is almost as bad as SSRM10s would be.

I'd rather see the following:

1 - Decrease max range to 820m to compensate for the lack of hard minimum range.

2 - Flatten the flight trajectory, making indirect fire harder to do.

3 - Have the cLRMs arm in sequence over the course of the 180m. Keep damage per missile the same, but have it start with only, say, 10% of the missiles armed at launch and the others arming as the missiles approach 180m. You could even reduce the arming range to 100m (10% armed per 10m). The point would be to let the cLRMs still do damage inside whatever minimum gets applied, but have said damage be reduced without changing the damage per missile.

[Escef]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 15 December 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

3 - Have the cLRMs arm in sequence over the course of the 180m. Keep damage per missile the same, but have it start with only, say, 10% of the missiles armed at launch and the others arming as the missiles approach 180m. You could even reduce the arming range to 100m (10% armed per 10m). The point would be to let the cLRMs still do damage inside whatever minimum gets applied, but have said damage be reduced without changing the damage per missile.

This is not significantly different from what they've already said they'd be doing. You're just using a different route to get to the same result. However, reduced damage sounds a lot better to me than playing the missile lottery, and is likely far easier to implement.

[Stardancer01]

Clan LRM should arm at 90m with machine gun damage under that range.
What should keep Clan ssrm & lrm players at bay is that Clan pilots should not share targeting information with each other. So all Clan pilots should have to find track and maintain their own targets.

If a Clan weapon system is fitted to and modified to work with an Inner Sphere Mech than it should cost 1 ton less than the IS version but reload/recharge at 200% longer, to show the incompatibility of power and control interfaces and the extra stuff need to make it fit and work on a IS battle mach.

Clan weaponry in general should take longer to recharge/reload than IS equivalent, to show that a Clan pilot does not miss or require a second shot. 150% longer when fitted to a clan mech.

[Dreden Aelnir]

I know this is me just beating the proverbial dead horse but...

BV...
How many man hours would PGI save trying to program/figure out these balance issues when the solution is just staring them in the face? Nope, got to reinvent the wheel!

Inner Sphere LRM-20 = 181/23 BV
Clan LRM-20 = 220/27 BV

Since this is the "Clan balance" example used by the devs:
Inner Sphere ERLL = 163 BV
Clan ERLL = 248 BV

Problem solved, not balance programming, no endless design meetings, no sleepless nights trying to figure out how to incorporate clantech without "breaking the game". Seriously just adopt this and a ****-ton of your design/balance issues go away. Certainly not a panacea but still...

Dreden Aelnir
Ebonheart Dragoons

[Firemage]

Dreden Aelnir, on 16 December 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

I know this is me just beating the proverbial dead horse but...

BV...
How many man hours would PGI save trying to program/figure out these balance issues when the solution is just staring them in the face?  Nope, got to reinvent the wheel!

Inner Sphere LRM-20 = 181/23 BV
Clan LRM-20 = 220/27 BV

Since this is the "Clan balance" example used by the devs:
Inner Sphere ERLL = 163 BV
Clan ERLL = 248 BV

Problem solved, not balance programming, no endless design meetings, no sleepless nights trying to figure out how to incorporate clantech without "breaking the game".  Seriously just adopt this and a ****-ton of your design/balance issues go away.  Certainly not a panacea but still...

Dreden Aelnir
Ebonheart Dragoons

More and more i'm prone to agree that BV balancing is a far better idea than tonnage balancing, Even more so as you have mechs that are the same weight but might have more "meta" hard point layouts, with BV they could adjust the value of said mechs based on load out.

[Funkin Disher]

Increase lock on time, decrease reload time, missiles fire in a stream instead of a volley.

[xhrit]

THIS is how you balance Clan LRMs no minimum range : roboteching missile swarms.