184 replies to this topic

[AaronWolf]

Buckminster, on 17 January 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

Ahh, but all the water boiled out. What was left behind was a thick sludge - an unknown element that we've dubbed "Dewmium". All we can gather is that it has a very high melting point, and is likely radioactive.

Sounds like Hero-juice! Drink it! Drink it! Tell me what super power you get!

[Spurowny]

Buckminster, on 17 January 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

Ahh, but all the water boiled out. What was left behind was a thick sludge - an unknown element that we've dubbed "Dewmium". All we can gather is that it has a very high melting point, and is likely radioactive.

just add yellow 5
luv me some Mtn Dew

edit: as to why I'm raining on your dewminum parade.. the thread title is "Not fun".

Edited by Spurowny, 17 January 2014 - 07:03 AM.

[Buckminster]

Aw man, someone's ruining my fun with "facts" and "science".

[IraqiWalker]

Hahahaha, this thread and threads like it are why I love the forums.

We got mechs, Science, Mt. Dew, Dewminum, and parades getting rained on. I love it.

[990Dreams]

Welcome to K-Town?

[Alaskan Nobody]

DavidHurricane, on 17 January 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

Welcome to K-Town?

Surprisingly enough.... Not Yet!

[wanderer]

AaronWolf, on 16 January 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

Like a bug that spontaneous causes your gastrointestinal system to explode in a fiery fury of flatulence.

Kinda doubt that would occur from a digital game.

More likely the rabid mixing of cheetos and mt.dew.

Sugarfree Haribo gummy bears are the minions of the devil, which bring suffering and misery to any GI tract they are foolishly welcomed to. That is all.

[Gwydion Ward]

The Harvester, on 09 January 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

However, to give credit where it's due, I'm really impressed with the look and feel of the game; the developers did a great job creating an authentic "feel" of the BT universe in the game, and the mechs and backgrounds look great. Being an old-school gamer (cut my gaming teeth on an Atari 2600 if that tells you anything), it's tough on the ego to admit when you are terrible, but the players have sure shown me where I am lacking skills, no doubt... lol.

The game does look good.. and it even looks as if its set up to be a great game, with how well they are trying ot follow the old TT info and such.

But, there is one single flaw with MWO.. and if your a old TT fan, your prolly running into the same frustration i do, which keeps me from being able to play MWO for more than 30-40 mins at a time.

Every weapon except for the LRM/SRM's are 100% accurate. Wherever you point, that is exactly were the weapon-fire goes. This dosnt happen in TT, and even in MW3 there was 'some' variance to your weapons.

What this means, is that everyone knows that if you kill the CT (front or rear) the entire mech dies. So that is the 1 and ONLY thing any ever shoots at. There have been instances were ive had 6+ enemy mechs shooting at me. and the ONLY thing on my entire mech to even go past YELLOW on the armor, is the CT. 6+ mechs, from 6+ different angles. yet the ONLY thing on me that droped, was the CT.

Basicaly, if your trying to be 'skillfull', and shooting at specific points on a enemy mech, like the 'ears' on a Catapault, or the Shoulder of a Hunchback. You WILL die before they do, because the one and only thing that other player is shooting at on 'your' mech, is your CT. So even if you do manage to disable part of their mech, They have 100% killed yours.

There really is no 'skill' in MWO right now. Each mech as 10 hitboxes on them, Left and right arms/legs (4), Front and back Center, and left/right Torso's (6). But the only two ever shot at, are the Front and Back Center Torso. Those other 8 hitboxes are pretty much useless, and do more harm to the person targeting them because they are there, than they do any good, as again, the person 'trying' to use skill in this game, WILL die to the other who is simply focusing on their CT and landing every shot because there is no variance to the weapons.

If you can make yourself 'stop' trying to target arms, legs, and 'ears'.. And follow along with the rest of the lemmings and aim for only the CT on every mech you see, you'll start to down more mech's than you are at the moment.

Even if that 'does' remove alot of the fun from the game in doing.

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 17 January 2014 - 05:10 PM.

[Sen]

Quote

Basicaly, if your trying to be 'skillfull', and shooting at specific points on a enemy mech, like the 'ears' on a Catapault, or the Shoulder of a Hunchback. You WILL die before they do, because the one and only thing that other player is shooting at on 'your' mech, is your CT. So even if you do manage to disable part of their mech, They have 100% killed yours.

Ok, I gotta ask. . . what were you doing out in the open without either enough firepower to disable weapons or enough maneuverability to avoid your target's fire straight to your CT? Were you using the terrain to your advantage? Were you torso twisting to soak damage? Were you being shot by multiple enemy mechs?

BASICALLY skill starts with situational awareness, location awareness, and an astute assessment of your enemy's weaknesses vs your strengths. Only after you obtain this leverage should targeting even come into play.

Like the old adage says: "measure twice, cut once"

or in the words of Tony Stark:

"They say the best weapon is one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I PREFER the weapon you only have to fire ONCE"

Edited by Sen, 17 January 2014 - 05:56 PM.

[Name140704]

Hexenhammer, on 09 January 2014 - 08:04 PM, said:

Now thats an idea.

A newbie only bracket. That new players start out in but experinced players can join in as well. But how to protect new players from customized mechs? Stockbuilds!

A number of players have asked for a unmodified queue and this might be a way of killing two birds with one stone.

A stock only bracket would be so awesome. I asked for this some time ago, but haven't heard since.

[z00med]

And these fantastic, easy-to-adapt, good for Newbies AND Pros, ideas will now rot here, on page 9 of one of the countless trollrants (though that troll turned out to be quite a nice person, from what I got ), slowly sinking in its virtual Nirvana.

A pity, really.

[Buckminster]

Rhapsody Repine, on 17 January 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

The game does look good.. and it even looks as if its set up to be a great game, with how well they are trying ot follow the old TT info and such.

But, there is one single flaw with MWO.. and if your a old TT fan, your prolly running into the same frustration i do, which keeps me from being able to play MWO for more than 30-40 mins at a time.

Every weapon except for the LRM/SRM's are 100% accurate. Wherever you point, that is exactly were the weapon-fire goes. This dosnt happen in TT, and even in MW3 there was 'some' variance to your weapons.

What this means, is that everyone knows that if you kill the CT (front or rear) the entire mech dies. So that is the 1 and ONLY thing any ever shoots at. There have been instances were ive had 6+ enemy mechs shooting at me. and the ONLY thing on my entire mech to even go past YELLOW on the armor, is the CT. 6+ mechs, from 6+ different angles. yet the ONLY thing on me that droped, was the CT.

Basicaly, if your trying to be 'skillfull', and shooting at specific points on a enemy mech, like the 'ears' on a Catapault, or the Shoulder of a Hunchback. You WILL die before they do, because the one and only thing that other player is shooting at on 'your' mech, is your CT. So even if you do manage to disable part of their mech, They have 100% killed yours.

There really is no 'skill' in MWO right now. Each mech as 10 hitboxes on them, Left and right arms/legs (4), Front and back Center, and left/right Torso's (6). But the only two ever shot at, are the Front and Back Center Torso. Those other 8 hitboxes are pretty much useless, and do more harm to the person targeting them because they are there, than they do any good, as again, the person 'trying' to use skill in this game, WILL die to the other who is simply focusing on their CT and landing every shot because there is no variance to the weapons.

If you can make yourself 'stop' trying to target arms, legs, and 'ears'.. And follow along with the rest of the lemmings and aim for only the CT on every mech you see, you'll start to down more mech's than you are at the moment.

Even if that 'does' remove alot of the fun from the game in doing.

I wouldn't say there's "no skill". Being able to aim on the move, keep a laser on target, knowing how to torso twist to avoid damage and so on. It all requires skill.

Although I do know what you mean. Part of me remembered the old random hits from the "to hit" tables, and imagined a BT game where you'd lock on to a target, and the mechs targeting system would handle the aiming, albeit imperfectly, and that would result in your less "aimed" shots. The ideas of perfect convergence, where all of the weapons fired focus in on a single point just seems wrong.

But I've talked myself into it - the dice rolls are representative of the difficulty of trying to move and shoot. The fact that some people are better at placing shots on target is representative of a mechwarrior that happens to have a high gunnery skill. And eventually, I started to get over my "faithful TT representation", and realized that TT games have to do a lot of assuming and approximating to streamline the rules into a playable game.

Although I do wish they'd get rid of the convergence. Pinpoint convergence is the biggest problem with the game.

[Gwydion Ward]

Sen, on 17 January 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

Ok, I gotta ask. . . what were you doing out in the open without either enough firepower to disable weapons or enough maneuverability to avoid your target's fire straight to your CT? Were you using the terrain to your advantage? Were you torso twisting to soak damage? Were you being shot by multiple enemy mechs?

BASICALLY skill starts with situational awareness, location awareness, and an astute assessment of your enemy's weaknesses vs your strengths. Only after you obtain this leverage should targeting even come into play.

Like the old adage says: "measure twice, cut once"

or in the words of Tony Stark:

"They say the best weapon is one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I PREFER the weapon you only have to fire ONCE"

*sighs* i hate it when people bring up the "torso twist you noob!"

Point of fact: Torso Twisting does absolutely 0 good if the other guy simply waits for you to turn back around to fire again. Non, at all, in any shape or form. So quit throwing it around as if its the 'counter' to CT Coring, Its Not.

As for being out in the 'open' Yes, that one time i was up against 6+ people i was separated from everyone else. BUT, that does NOT TAKE AWAY from the fact that with 6+ people shooting at me, the ONLY thing they ALL were shooting at, Was the CT. 6+ people.. and ALL of them firing at the exact same point. What does that tell you about the Game?.. When fully 1/2 of a 12 man team ALL aim for the exact same spot on a MOVING target?

As for useing terrain, and picking my targets and the like. Yes, i do all of those things, i ALWAYS do all of those things.

But None of it changes the fact that EVERY person i attack ALWAYS aims for ONLY the CT when they fire back.

Quad AC2 spamming Jaggers from 900m away, Dual AC10 Stalkers from 100m away, ERPPC Awsom's from 600-900m away.. Spiders from 50m away..

ALL aim for 1 and only 1 spot. The CT, each and every time.

Ive seen countless enemies and friendlies walk up next to a enemy, or get within firering range of a enemy mech.. and NOT fire 1 single weapon, untill they get a shot on the CT of the other mech. Time and Time again. Then as soon as they dont hae a shot on the CT they simply wait (again.. an example of Torso Twisting doing 0 good at all)., Once they can see the CT again, Thats when they fire again.

Its a undeniable fact of the Game. CT coring = dead mech. Asside from the Head, it is the 1 and only spot were destroying 1 single component = dead mech. So.. Since ALL of our weapons, excluding the missles, hit 'exactly' were we aim. That is were everyone aims. Why take the tim eto destroy 'both' legs to kill a enemy mech, when destroying 1 other section kills it? Why destroy the arm THEN work on the CT.. when you can skip the arm and simply kill the CT?

THAT is the one and only 'tactic' in the game. Shoot the CT.

The 100% accuracy of the weapons + the CT coring is what makes this game so much an 'arcade' game, rather than a Mechwarrior Sim game. They could put 50 hitboxes on the Mechs.. and it wouldnt change a thing if they kept the 100% accuracy + CT = dead mech in.

Its the sad, simple, truth about MWO.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Rhapsody Repine, on 17 January 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

Point of fact: Torso Twisting does absolutely 0 good if the other guy simply waits for you to turn back around to fire again. Non, at all, in any shape or form. So quit throwing it around as if its the 'counter' to CT Coring, Its Not.

It does actually do quite a bit - but not as much as it's reputation would have you believe.
If they wait then you are slowing their damage rates.
If they do not - then they are potentially wasting shots.
It DOES do - just isn't a cure-all

[Gwydion Ward]

Buckminster, on 17 January 2014 - 07:44 PM, said:

I wouldn't say there's "no skill". Being able to aim on the move, keep a laser on target, knowing how to torso twist to avoid damage and so on. It all requires skill.

Although I do know what you mean. Part of me remembered the old random hits from the "to hit" tables, and imagined a BT game where you'd lock on to a target, and the mechs targeting system would handle the aiming, albeit imperfectly, and that would result in your less "aimed" shots. The ideas of perfect convergence, where all of the weapons fired focus in on a single point just seems wrong.

But I've talked myself into it - the dice rolls are representative of the difficulty of trying to move and shoot. The fact that some people are better at placing shots on target is representative of a mechwarrior that happens to have a high gunnery skill. And eventually, I started to get over my "faithful TT representation", and realized that TT games have to do a lot of assuming and approximating to streamline the rules into a playable game.

Although I do wish they'd get rid of the convergence. Pinpoint convergence is the biggest problem with the game.

the dice-rolls were not simply a 'representation' of the pilots skill, but also of the machine itself.

I'll ask anyone here who has any type of scoped weapon in their homes, or is able to go to a shooting range and use one, to pick it up.. hold it up.. then look threw the scope at any target they find.

Then start moving around while trying to hold that target in the x-hairs.

THAT movement + the futuristic Gyro's and such that would be in the arms/body of the Mech's combined with pilot skill is what the dice-rolls were sapose to represent.

PGI took the 'mecanical' varience out of things by making the weapons fire 'exactly' to the dead center of both the circle (for arm weapons) and x-hair (for torso weapons). But, they mistakenly figured that 'human' accuracy would counter those exact, 100% accurate weapons so that they wouldnt 'need' that mechanical varience.

And it dosnt.

Shar Wolf, on 17 January 2014 - 08:46 PM, said:

It does actually do quite a bit - but not as much as it's reputation would have you believe.
If they wait then you are slowing their damage rates.
If they do not - then they are potentially wasting shots.
It DOES do - just isn't a cure-all

If they wait, their slowing the damage done to other parts of your mech, rather than the CT which is what their trying to destroy while ignoring everything else .

If they dont, then their hitting your CT like the want,, then 'waisting' damage on other parts of your mech their dont care about, and raging in their chair because its actually gonna take effort on their part to kill the CT and that their 'perfect CT Core' kill has been ruined by 1 single yellow mark on their targeting computer redout.

Edited by Rhapsody Repine, 17 January 2014 - 08:51 PM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

ah yes the torso twist defense. im still gonna shoot your mech in the CT no matter which way you turn because, depending on your mech, im gotta still hit a part that juts out, the bulge between your torso and legs that doesn't turn, or the bulge on the back if you turn too far.

[War Beast]

JC Daxion, on 15 January 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

Technically the game is really still in beta. If playing a game in this state is not for you, By all means take a step back.

In todays mmo gaming environment, open beta is considered "live" by just about any player (and honestly the studios) out there. The developers are already taking in real money sales for a product that is now open to all players. The "labeling game" allows them to be less accountable because they can say its still technically beta. But as soon as you open the doors to everyone and let them open their wallets, its considered live.

And the official "live launch" of the this game brought in basically no new features or changes at all. It was just another day of what was essentially the same product since it went open beta. Minor tweaks and fixes, but tons of new mechs you could spend real money on. That was the state of the game for 1.5 years.

In recent dev postings they have stated that nothing significant (not even balance changes) have occurred over the last year because they couldnt get the new UI2.0 working properly. It has apparently been the hang up for everything of real substance for the game for the last year. They stated this. Basically admitting the game has been in limbo for a year as they tried to produce the new UI. We still dont get UI2.0 until next month. And then after thats finally here they arent quoting any major fixes like matchmaker and weapon balancing until april or later after that.

Thats a LONG f'ing time for basically "not much".

As for taking a step back thats my intent. I'm hoping by summer it has seen major improvements. But if you take a step back and look at it, thats means the current playerbase and new players have to continue to slog through a very crappy experience for another 6 months from now. That puts it at about 10 months after the "officail live launch", and way past 1.5 years after open beta.

[Buckminster]

Rhapsody Repine, on 17 January 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

the dice-rolls were not simply a 'representation' of the pilots skill, but also of the machine itself.

I'll ask anyone here who has any type of scoped weapon in their homes, or is able to go to a shooting range and use one, to pick it up.. hold it up.. then look threw the scope at any target they find.

Then start moving around while trying to hold that target in the x-hairs.

THAT movement + the futuristic Gyro's and such that would be in the arms/body of the Mech's combined with pilot skill is what the dice-rolls were sapose to represent.

PGI took the 'mecanical' varience out of things by making the weapons fire 'exactly' to the dead center of both the circle (for arm weapons) and x-hair (for torso weapons). But, they mistakenly figured that 'human' accuracy would counter those exact, 100% accurate weapons so that they wouldnt 'need' that mechanical varience.

But - piloting a mech isn't like walking around with a rifle. I've played paintball - I know how hard it is to accurately shoot on the move. But I'm also enough of a military dork to have watched documentaries on the Abrams, and know that it has an incredibly sophisticated firing system that allows it to shoot on the move with frightening accuracy, at distances far greater than 1000 meters.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the pinpoint convergence - and it was even worse during the old 6 PPC days - but I've kinda come to terms with the fact that it is what it is.

[Gwydion Ward]

Buckminster, on 18 January 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

But - piloting a mech isn't like walking around with a rifle. I've played paintball - I know how hard it is to accurately shoot on the move. But I'm also enough of a military dork to have watched documentaries on the Abrams, and know that it has an incredibly sophisticated firing system that allows it to shoot on the move with frightening accuracy, at distances far greater than 1000 meters.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the pinpoint convergence - and it was even worse during the old 6 PPC days - but I've kinda come to terms with the fact that it is what it is.

There's a big difference between moving a 800lb barrel with a gyro attached to it to keep it level... than there is in moving a 20 ton arm

[Marvyra]

You need to have a lot of patience with a game like this. You won't know or get everything done with 2 days of playtime. Sometimes you will get utterly destroyed, that's just how these games work, you just need to keep trying, maybe try a different build or two. Even me who has been playing since Closed Beta get utterly destroyed sometimes but I still find MWO to be fun!

I also got two friends playing with me and I told them from the start that the beginning can be a bit rough but they stuck with it. They now have the mechs they want and it took less time for them than it did for me. They're having fun!

The exciting part about MWO is the whole strategy aspect, you can't just rush in thinking you'll win. (I'm looking at you Dragons.) You will NEED to somehow communicate and tell your team where the enemy is and hide out somewhere or flank them from the side.

So I suggest you give the game more time.

The more experience you get playing the game, the more fun it'll be!

Edited by Marvyra, 18 January 2014 - 02:03 PM.