184 replies to this topic

[BLOOD WOLF]

Shar Wolf, on 09 January 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

Finnish your 25 matches - then you can talk.

I say that for a couple reasons.

1) less than 25 matches played means you have not played enough (that is about 1 hour worth of play) to know jack-diddly about the real state of the game.

2) there is a specific area of the forum for feedback - it is called the Support & Feedback area - this is not it.

[redacted]


Have a nice day.

Edit:
Thank you miSs
I was out of line, but kept spacing the edit I meant to do.

I agree, If you havnt completed your first 25 matches then the problem is you lack experience. He makes a great point and for anybody to try to argue against that obviously has bias. whether the game has its issues is irrelevant, you can at least try to become adept at the game.

[DONTOR]

There are other new players here that had a good start and posted about it you should try and find those posts they had good examples of how to start playing this game the rght way. If you just jump into this game and think you wll have any success you are terribly mistaken.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

I've spent lots of time and lots of effort and have had lots of fun with this game, but this might be a bad time to try to get into it. There are balancing issues, there are meta issues, there are teamwork issues, there are fundamental flaws and lack of content.

IF you're not having fun now, you might be doing yourself a favor by dropping out for 3 or 6 months until some of the newer content comes out and then you can possibly dive in and get a great experience. Right now you're either a slow moving source of many explosions, or a fast moving target dodging many explosions, and any inbetween is really debatable.

Wether you win is a toss of the dice depending on if you're in a group with friends or not or if you've been teamed with people who will play together and try to win. A lot of times when playing pick up games, I'll drop and be the only other mech with kills, out of the whole team, and I'm in a Jenner, and we've been completely creamed 12 to 4 or something. So it doesn't even matter if you're a good pilot with a grasp of the gaming mechanics, if only you and a few others on your team are doing more than trying to raise c-bills for their next mech upgrade.

The game looks great, there is a ton of customization options so you can tool around and tweak your death machines from freak-builds to optimal destruction, and that's still fun. But once you burn through the core of the game, it's still mostly PVP tactical shooting, reload and repeat. Once you get good at killing there's not much more to do here, and there is a good argument that the killing part is too unbalanced in many instances, with a 6 laser light being as deadly as a 20AC Atlas in some cases. The core balance is still out of whack, and won't be fixed until there is more of a "game" framework to build around.

You can have fun with robot deathmatch, but the clock will run out and eventually you'll need more. So you might do better just waiting until that time.

[Mott]

Vets can harp all they want that new players who haven't played all their cbill/xp boost matches don't have a reason to complain (maybe it's true).

But that doesn't change the fact that there is a very major problem with new player disillusionment and people not enjoying the game early on. Entertainment is supposed to suck us in and make us want more.

MWO does the opposite - most people come here looking to rekindle past experiences with the BT/MW lore and community developed through table games, books, the cartoon series and other video games - and they get none of that from the current MWO. There's no MWO-run community warfare or leagues.

Next they're hoping for a great game that provides hours of fun... but instead get a game that absolutely punishes newbies for at least 50 matches... and more like 500 if we're totally honest.

Yes, the rewards ARE there - down the road - in the improved skills, and friends made, etc... but none of that is apparent to anyone who just downloaded it.

So (too?) many vets here wear the fact they've grinded through tough times like a badge of honour. And in many ways it is... but why in Thor's name would anyone WANT/support barriers to entry? We all love this property and want to see it live long and develop well... why encourage the chasing away of new players? The more who stick with it, the more PGI has to work with both in terms of our dollars spent, but also in negotiating power when it comes to getting funding partners and license holders to work with them.

I'm a marketer, and pretty damned good or I wouldn't be able to exist as one, and this developing & marketing team need MAJOR AID. When i first broke into the industry the rule of thumb was that for every upset client who let you know they were upset, you had already lost 16 silent sufferers.
In the last few years since the web has exploded with infinite choices for product and service suppliers... it's believed that ratio has ballooned to 1 complainer for every 80 (EIGHTY!) who never let you know they won't support you again.

The other side of the spectrum is 6 happy silent fans/supporters for every 1 that lets you know.

To put that in perspective... since i first visited these forums on SUNDAY, I have seen 4 posts from noobs who like the game and are happy with it and appreciate the support from vets (this is including my own post). Conversely, i have seen 13 upset and disgruntled noob posters who all complain about the same components.

Do the math (and assuming those marketing ratios are correct) you'll see that means there's only 24 happy players sticking around compared to the 1040 (ONE THOUSAND FORTY!!) unhappy players ditching the game after just a few hours.

Edited by Mott, 10 January 2014 - 12:21 PM.

[mogs01gt]

As new play I understand completely with other newbie's concerns. HOWEVER, once you learn the meta and maps, you start to understand which mechs work the best for you and then you can match your build types to the meta. Though the biggest down side is only having enough C-bills to buy a Medium mech which is horrible to use currently unless you are a season pilot. If you do get a medium go Cent or Treb

As an example, I went Hunchie 4j as my first mech, horrible decision so I tried to go with a 4sp. Another bad decisions since brawling is not designed for new players and obviously medium mechs are sub par currently. Now that I used real money to buy a Orion,Im ******* pissed at myself for not getting the Protector, didnt know Heroes gave 30% cbills, Im realy enjoying the game. Though now this account is all ****** up because I wasnt knowledgable with my C-bill usage or Hero mechs..

[Void Angel]

Mott, you're cherry picking your data from incomplete sources - do you have any actual evidence that "new player disillusionment is a problem," or are you just making a subjective value judgement based on totally inadequate information (i.e. the forums, not to mention your unscientific perceptions thereof) off the top of your head?

[Silent]

Shar Wolf, on 09 January 2014 - 06:16 PM, said:

Finnish your 25 matches - then you can talk.

I say that for a couple reasons.

1) less than 25 matches played means you have not played enough (that is about 1 hour worth of play) to know jack-diddly about the real state of the game.

2) there is a specific area of the forum for feedback - it is called the Support & Feedback area - this is not it.

[redacted]


Have a nice day.

Edit:
Thank you miSs
I was out of line, but kept spacing the edit I meant to do.

Shar Wolf for top community helper.

Give this man a medal wowee. You all could learn a thing or two from this guy, yes sir.

Edited by Silent, 10 January 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[Osric Lancaster]

The Harvester, on 09 January 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

It's impossible to keep a reticule on target for any length of time, certainly not long enough to get a meaningful shot off.

It does bug me that there's no way to turn the heading of the 'Mech without also changing the facing. I normally adjust by aiming a bit in front of where I want to shoot and then letting loose as I walk into the correct firing position. Still, an on/off or held toggle for fully independent torso and leg motion would be a nice feature to help people move and shoot. (Seriously, P.G.I. . . Please?)

[Mott]

Void Angel, on 10 January 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Mott, you're cherry picking your data from incomplete sources

No, I'm not.

As I explained quite clearly, i'm applying a generally accepted industry rule to a situation, using the exact number of pro/con posts I've seen in my short time on these forums, using the only sample population that makes sense - MWO players who express an opinion.

Sure it's a small sample size - i never said it wasn't. And maybe after 3 or 4 or 6 months it'll even out and I'll see 50% positive responses and 50% negative responses... but that'll still be only hundreds of happy players compared to tens of thousands of unhappy players.

It makes zero business sense.

[AaronWolf]

Silent, on 10 January 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

Shar Wolf for top community helper.

Give this man a medal wowee. You all could learn a thing or two from this guy, yes sir.

Don't know about you guy's, but I don't see the point in pointing fingers and being sarcastic anymore...

...I do see a point in posting pictures for my responses over typing anything out anymore!

[BLOOD WOLF]

I think some of you guys forget that we were all new players and how many of us sucked right out the gate but still hung in there. i never played this game to win, i love mech warrior and that was enough for me. I didnt get into groups or learn the builds when i first started off and i still dont use builds and i do fine. I think someone needs to start a topic called first time experiences where players can tell stories about there first few hours. I know when i came in i kept dying for at least 10 matches but then i went to the training ground learned my mechs arm movement, my basic movement. Weapon ranges, the amount of damage i could do, i covered my basics. then gradually i got better, it wasn't an overnight of a week progress but you will get better. Most new guys just ask what is the best build? first you gotta learn how to best use a mech before you can run.

[BLOOD WOLF]

I also know that, for me being a mechwarrior fan that piloting a mech didn't seem like a hard concept but for a first timer it doesn't have to be either. Just put in the time and effort, train with somebody, Go to the clan pages and house forums and ask for some help, you dont have to join anything but ask. dont keep posting because you need actually ingame exp. There are plenty of players willing to help. I Don't care if you do 1000 damage a match remember we were all new once.

Silent, on 10 January 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

Shar Wolf for top community helper.

Give this man a medal wowee. You all could learn a thing or two from this guy, yes sir.

I definitely agree, glad to see someone going the extra mile to help someone.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Mott, on 10 January 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

Vets can harp all they want that new players who haven't played all their cbill/xp boost matches don't have a reason to complain (maybe it's true).

Harp? Maybe? First off, the only thing we have in common with harping is repetition and that's because the newbs who come here to complain don't read the existing threads.

Second, it is true. You play a FPS for 3 hours and think you not only know enough to give actual feedback but should be winning? Yea right. The only thing they can give quality feedback on is maybe the learning curve or initial learning process. Yet that doesn't even scratch the surface of what the game is like once you've learned the ropes.

Yet we have these self-appointed gaming gurus coming here to tell PGI how to do their jobs.

Mott, on 10 January 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

In the last few years since the web has exploded with infinite choices for product and service suppliers... it's believed that ratio has ballooned to 1 complainer for every 80 (EIGHTY!) who never let you know they won't support you again.

The other side of the spectrum is 6 happy silent fans/supporters for every 1 that lets you know.

To put that in perspective... since i first visited these forums on SUNDAY, I have seen 4 posts from noobs who like the game and are happy with it and appreciate the support from vets (this is including my own post). Conversely, i have seen 13 upset and disgruntled noob posters who all complain about the same components.

Do the math (and assuming those marketing ratios are correct) you'll see that means there's only 24 happy players sticking around compared to the 1040 (ONE THOUSAND FORTY!!) unhappy players ditching the game after just a few hours.

Edited the above for space's sake. The point is those are averages using generic data. No one would use those numbers to tweak their system and you know it. They would dig a bit deeper to narrow the range down for their product's target demographic. The older the crowd, the larger the number who never say anything online, and if you don't have a mailing address or phone number prominent you may never get any feedback. Yet the younger crowd will take to FB, Twitter etc.

So the point is, only PGI know what the retention rates look like. They've said the new tutorial did wonders, as in order of magnitude improvement in retention.

Oh and they just negotiated an extension on the licensing from MS, so it's doubtful the numbers suck too badly or MS would've pulled the plug to give to someone else.

Osric Lancaster, on 10 January 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

It does bug me that there's no way to turn the heading of the 'Mech without also changing the facing. I normally adjust by aiming a bit in front of where I want to shoot and then letting loose as I walk into the correct firing position. Still, an on/off or held toggle for fully independent torso and leg motion would be a nice feature to help people move and shoot. (Seriously, P.G.I. . . Please?)

Umm torso twist? IE turn to look left while still walking forward......


Or am I reading you wrong....

[Nick Makiaveli]

BLOOD WOLF, on 10 January 2014 - 01:39 PM, said:

I definitely agree, glad to see someone going the extra mile to help someone.

Read some of the other posts, Shar is actually helpful most of the time. I know I've jumped people for trolling when it turns out they weren't.

Add in the douchebags that roll into every thread and c/p their little rants (my fav was one {Dezgra} who only read the title, assumed it was a bitchfest and said I agree OP, ***** whine cry when the OP was actually praising PGI.) and yea we sometimes get a bit testy when it looks like a alt account posted simply to troll. Hell, I even had someone admit in a thread he was trolling. Yet he wants to be taken seriously.

Or to put it another way, if you aren't in the trenches helping the newbs, maybe you should not talk about those of us who are helping.

[Osric Lancaster]

Nick Makiaveli, on 10 January 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Umm torso twist? IE turn to look left while still walking forward......
Or am I reading you wrong....

You are reading me wrong, but I aim to elucidate!
1 - Your heading is the way your legs pointing. Your lower torso.
2 - Your facing is the way your guns are pointing. Your upper torso.
I want to change my heading without changing my facing. I want to turn my 'Mech to dodge or maneuver without dragging my aim point along with it. You'd still suffer some motion jogging and your torso twist speed limit might come into play, but you could aim while turning. So the opposite of what you said.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 10 January 2014 - 02:00 PM.

[Void Angel]

Mott, on 10 January 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

No, I'm not.

As I explained quite clearly, i'm applying a generally accepted industry rule to a situation, using the exact number of pro/con posts I've seen in my short time on these forums, using the only sample population that makes sense - MWO players who express an opinion.

Sure it's a small sample size - i never said it wasn't. And maybe after 3 or 4 or 6 months it'll even out and I'll see 50% positive responses and 50% negative responses... but that'll still be only hundreds of happy players compared to tens of thousands of unhappy players.

It makes zero business sense.

Your knowledge of statistical polling is failing you. These forums, in total, are not a scientific sample. Applying extremely generalized "marketing industry" rules-of-thumb doesn't give you the mileage you're going for - particularly since you've been on the forums for a whopping six days now. You're also ignoring (i.e. cherry-picking) people who have already explained that there's been a rash of people posting "newbie" accounts in order to deliberately contribute to the disgruntlement of new players. I've seen reports like the one guy who dropped with a "new" account, complained about some change he didn't get/like, and started plastering his team with weapons fire until they put him down.

You can make grandiose proclamations about "industry standards," all you like, but until you actually parse all the data you've been given, you're just whistling in the wind.

Edit: PS: You're not fooling anyone by claiming to have joined the forums this week, by the way. We can see your posting history and join date.

Edited by Void Angel, 10 January 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

The Harvester, on 09 January 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

Dear Site / Game Owners,

I'm a BT gamer from the hex board days with a goodly amount of MW3 stuck in, and I just have to say... After two days of playing this online game, while it looks fabulous, you must have to play this for months to develop any kind of ability to do anything useful in the game. EIther that, or the stuff you can buy absolutely dominates the default mechs that are offered.

Any time I've gotten into a skirmish with another mech, I get the fire blasted out of me every.... single... time. It's impossible to keep a reticle on target for any length of time, certainly not long enough to get a meaningful shot off. It's enough that the game after two days is not fun at all now that the novelty of it has worn off.

Two days in and your complaining it takes to long to be relevant. Crazy talk imo. Any game worth playing should definitely have a long learning curve and an equally long time to acquire the mechs/items to be considered end game relevant. Since you have been in the BT/MW universe for what seems like a long time (I could be wrong ofc) I would expect you should know and appreciate the progression from new to end game relevant. And to be honost this game in comparison to say WoT is far easier to acquire end game content, hell just put in some MC and you can be item relevant (maybe not skill though ) in your first hour, so your complaint relating to time to be relevant falls on deaf ears imo.

And for the second paragraph I have to disagree with it all. I have no reticule issues nor do any that I know and play with that have spent the time to learn it and adjust to it. Not sure how it is your having a problem with the reticule unless it is in understanding the torso/arm reticules and their convergence time (which can be improved w/the xp pilot/mech skills). In which case I return to my first paragraph and learning curves. There are a great many pilots willing to assist new players with these issues both here and on TS servers (comstar & ngng in particular). I would recommend this route before up and quitting because it is 'hard' to learn.

Quitting out so early and for these reasons you have listed is leading me to believe you want some EZMode game where you can have and learn everything in 2 days. That is just silly, you have not given it a legitimate shot nor enough time to even learn anything that would help you to improve. It is this kind of mentality that is going to ruin gaming.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 10 January 2014 - 03:00 PM.

[Void Angel]

To be fair, the learning curve for this game is reported to be very high - I don't personally relate, because it was just a matter of adapting other Mechwarrior games to this one's controls and weapons. Still, some people find the whole thing VERY counter-intuitive - it's something PGI knows about and wants to fix. It's just that they have to get so many other systems online that are literally a year behind some earlier projections first.

My difficulty with the OP is that he's not interested in finding out what he was doing wrong, or asking for help - he seems to have logged onto the forums just to hurl a few parting insults at the game, have a good scream at anyone who yelled back, and then never come back again. It's not a very good coping strategy.

[Mott]

Void Angel, on 10 January 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

the OP is that he's not interested in finding out what he was doing wrong, or asking for help - he seems to have logged onto the forums just to hurl a few parting insults at the game, have a good scream at anyone who yelled back, and then never come back again. It's not a very good coping strategy.

And yet it's an approach that MANY are taking; he is not an anomaly. Which should lead anyone to realize that there is a pretty serious underlying issue.

You repeatedly saying there isn't an issue, doesn't change the fact that there is. The proof is in the fact that many come here to share their displeasure. Your claim that those people don't exist is instantly debunked the second anyone reads through any thread, anywhere in these forums.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Mott, on 10 January 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

And yet it's an approach that MANY are taking; he is not an anomaly. Which should lead anyone to realize that there is a pretty serious underlying issue.

You repeatedly saying there isn't an issue, doesn't change the fact that there is. The proof is in the fact that many come here to share their displeasure. Your claim that those people don't exist is instantly debunked the second anyone reads through any thread, anywhere in these forums.

Except do we want the game dumbed down to the level of those who think 2 days is too much work to be a master of the game and have all options opened up to them?

I don't see game like that holding on to a demographic older than 6 or 7.


*edit* grammerz and such.

Edited by Nick Makiaveli, 10 January 2014 - 03:07 PM.