Jump to content

New To Brawling, Need A Mech


162 replies to this topic

#1 AJDux

    Member

  • PipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:35 PM

Mkay, so I love my Dragons, I think im pretty deadly in them, multiple AC2's at range with speed just suits me, my stats list 400+ matches in Dragons, but its far higher as I was playing from early Beta.
Almost finished pimping out my last Dragon, so Im looking for my next chassis, and my natural inclination is a Jager, but it kind of seems like a similar role, AC heavy support..... The trouble is I always ending up filling this role in most games, fast and pack a punch, but I dont like getting shot back, I mean WTF is this a fair fight??

So I figure its time to try something different and face my fear of brawling...... Ive wasted far too many C-bills in the past switching chassis, so Id like a little expert advise please :-)

Id count myself as good shot, but not such a great pilot, so probably avoiding JJ's and need something fairly manouverable etc.
Probably not looking to XL, I figure with low XP in this role Ill need all the help I can to stay alive?
I like my AC's :-) so probably something that can fit an AC20


Im put off the Atlas as I know whenever I see one, I have an overwhelming desire to tear its smug face off...... Kind of think id be primary a lot......

Im guessing options are Hunchie, Victor, maybe Centurion? I bought a Phract ages ago, and just plain didnt get on with it, found I died very quickly (probably my piloting....)

Aaaaand discuss :-)

#2 CyborgDragon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 356 posts
  • LocationRight behind you o.o

Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:47 PM

If you want a heavy with an ac20, I'd say go with the Orion. It can be set up pretty much the same as an Atlas, but can move faster and doesnt get focused down as much. Because the ac20 is in the side torso you can't mount an XL engine, but the stock STD 300 engine will get you to 64kph.

If you prefer the fast hit-and-run tactics then a Hunchback may be better for you, just make sure to protect that hunch at all cost.

EDIT: Also Shadowhawks make good brawlers and harassers with a high-mounted ballistic hardpoint, and are tougher than they look (and have jumpjets if you want them).

Edited by CyborgDragon, 21 January 2014 - 09:49 PM.


#3 zagibu

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,253 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:25 AM

Brawling needs good piloting. I suggest you choose a mech that allows to fill other roles, so that if you decide brawling isn't for you after all, you can switch loadout and do something else with it. The Victor could do this.

#4 PhoenixFire55

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 5,725 posts
  • LocationSt.Petersburg / Outreach

Posted 22 January 2014 - 02:34 AM

I'd say Centurion is a very good mech to learn brawling. Unless you go for CN9-D with a huge engine, you'll be fairly slow, but Centurions are remarkably resilient. You'll learn to torso-twist to protect your vital torsoes using arms as shields as well as general brawler piloting. The classic 3-SRM-6s, 2-MLs CN9-A never gets old.

#5 AJDux

    Member

  • PipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:59 AM

Id totally overlooked the shadowhawk. But now uve mentioned it looks like my kinda mech..... Thankyou for suggestions guys :-)

#6 The Unknown Pilot

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 140 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationBehind you

Posted 22 January 2014 - 04:37 AM

Thunderbolts, Cataphracts, and Highlanders make good brawlers, but I'll always be a Victor pilot with that AC/20 for a good brawl!

#7 Troutmonkey

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Moderate Giver
  • Moderate Giver
  • 3,776 posts
  • LocationAdelaide, Australia

Posted 22 January 2014 - 04:55 AM

Shadowhawks are really good and varied mechs that can be put to work doing almost anything with the right build. SRMs and LB10X are good weapons for them. You probably want to run somewhere between 280XL and 300XL to get the most out of them.

#8 Steinar Bergstol

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Urban Commando
  • Urban Commando
  • 1,622 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 22 January 2014 - 05:18 AM

I'm having a surprising amount of fun in my Shadowhawk with an AC/20 in the shoulder and a single medium laser in the right arm. Having gotten used to running mechs with more weapons than they know what to do with (Stalkers, Thunderbolts) I never expected to like a Hawk with only two guns as much as I do.

#9 Tahribator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 1,565 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 05:29 AM

TL;DR: Shadowhawks(especially 2D2) and Victors(9S-9K) are great starters. The Shadowhawk has a very narrow profile, cramming a lot of armor into a tight space, making you quite tanky. The Victor has big arms blocking a lot of damage, excellent torso twist speeds and generally great mobility for an assault. Both mechs need to be XL'd for best results though.

You said you don't want JJ's though, I find that a bit odd. Brawling requires you to be very mobile, you don't want to sit there and tank like Atlases do. You want to move, twist, jump and make it really hard for your enemy to reach your weak hitbox. JJ'ing also mitigates incoming damage to your legs, giving you a huge armor buffer. Not to mention it lets you **** if the situation changes(enemy backup arrives). When you get the hang of JJ brawling, you'll be extremely tough to kill.

I suggest staying away from other mediums, they kind of took the backseat when Shadowhawk released. They're still good, but you'll need a lot of experience to use them effectively. Zombie Cents can be devastating, but you'll need to read the battlefield well to know when to go in with your zombie.

You really want STD engine mechs? Your other options are Orions, which are godly brawlers but require a lot of getting used to because of their weird hitboxes and little mobility. Cataphracts are quite squishy because of their wide profile and are best used as a support mech. I wouldn't call Jagers brawlers, slapping an AC40 or double gauss doesn't suddenly make you a good brawler or a player. Thunderbolts are good and tanky, but being energy heavy and big; require very good trigger discipline and positioning. Brawler Assaults(except Victor) might be too slow for you to be a good learning platform for now.

Also, learn to let go of your PPC/Ballistics. SRM's and ML's are the bread and butter of brawlers, SRM's giving the big punch and ML's providing consistent fire. Only use big ballistics, starting with AC10 in your brawlers. As don't require you to stare at your target until they die.

There are also guides and builds for brawlers in my blog. I'm a dedicated brawler! :D

#10 TyrEol

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 76 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 22 January 2014 - 05:50 AM

Yes jump jets are a huge advantage when brawling, you can get in and out of combat fast, spread damage over areas of all areas of your mech, turn tightly, throw up clouds of dust and generally out manoeuvre other brawlers who don't have them.

The victors as already mentioned are nice, cataphracts although you say you're not keen I find to be good for this see the 3D with it's jump jets, I really like brawling in my Thunderbolt 9SE (no ACs though).

I don't own an Orion so I can't speak for them. Shadowhawks can be nice too, but I still play mine more as hit and run rather than staying engaged for longer. Probably this will change with weight limits.

#11 MasonDune

    Member

  • Pip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 16 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:46 AM

I know you dont like the CTF mechs but they are excellent brawlers. While many dont consider a Jager a brawler you can put 2 LB 10X AC in the them and get an extra 2 tons of ammo and then add in several SRM launchers. I would go with an XL engine to maximize armor and gain speed. I ran standard at first but moving slow in a brawler is bad news. With the above Jager build you can Alpha strike with out over heating and one shot a mech in the back or open up most cherry mechs in the front. If you stagger fire you will stay in combat longer since your not producing the heat levels you would using lasers. you will still put on medium lasers since ammo can and will run out. AMS is a must. Since you will spend a good deal of time out of ECM once you start combat you dont want to get lit up before you even have a chance.

#12 TygerLily

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The People's Hero
  • The People
  • 2,150 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:57 AM

I think Shadowhawks would be good for you. Only 5 tons lighter than the Dragon. Very maneuverable and good harpoints.

For brawling they are all good but, I have the 5M setup as:
AC20, two SRM4s, two medium lasers. Standard engine.

For direct fire, the Shadowhawk 2H:
Two AC2s, one AC 5, and a medium pulse.
Alternatively, three AC2s, three SRM2s, and a medium laser. XL or standard...

For kicks, 2D2:
LBX, four SSRM2s, and two medium pulse laser. XL engine.

Edited by TygerLily, 22 January 2014 - 09:58 AM.


#13 pbiggz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 4,682 posts
  • LocationOutreach

Posted 22 January 2014 - 10:26 AM

I am a long time brawler. here is what you need to know.

Brawlers take damage. Everything about the mech you take should be robust and based around soaking up damage so that you do not lose important components (such as weapons) before you take off your target's. Generally, brawlers take arrays of medium lasers, AC 20s, and artemis SRM 6s

Brawlers do the twist. I'll use orions as examples. The typical ON1-K brawler has 2-4 medium lasers (arm mounted), an Ac20 and 2 arty SRM 6s in the torsos. When piloting, you must practice and master DEFENSIVE TORSO TWIST. Treat your arms as expendable. A good brawler often will lose his arms. Expect them to fall off at some point. Use them as shields, and your torso weapons dont take damage. Then once they're gone, use your torsos as shields. The key is defending your center torso from damage. This is what make brawlers even remotely survivable, as their pinpoint alpha doesnt always compete with snipers.

Brawlers never go alone. Positioning is everything, and you at the very least want sniper cover fire. In a perfect world, you should be running with another brawler, with support from strikers AND snipers. Brawlers are meant to be the heart of the team. Heavy hitters that draw enemy fire, soak some damage (dont mistake brawling for tanking) but deal far more damage back while the team operates around them. Keep in mind that in the open you are toast, as your weapons are all short ranged, and if you are caught alone, your weaknesses are far easier to exploit.

My suggestion for mechs is the Atlas As7-DDC, as it is in the purest sense, the best brawler you can get. Use at least a standard 340 engine, put 2 medium lasers on the arms, 3 arty srm 6s, and an AC 20 on the torso, and torso twist aggressively.

If you would rather use a heavy mech, use an Orion On1-K with at least a standard 300, between 2 and 4 medium lasers, an AC20 and 2 Arty SRM 6s. It's an excellent brawler, but keep in mind it wont stand up to an atlas brawler without support and fancy footwork.

Keep in mind that srms are not reliably registering hits right now, so brawlers are hurting quite a bit because of that.

Brawlers NEVER TAKE XL engines. The drop in survivability makes them not worth it, despite the speed advantage you think you might have. Put in the biggest standard engine you can. (For an atlas, at least 340, for an orion, never drop below 300).

Mediums often fight at close range, but they are not "brawlers" in the pure sense. Alot of medium piloting centers around damage evasion, so it's not quite the same.

Never brawl in a jagermech or a cataphract. Jagermechs put too much firepower in their arms, which are also too small to effectively be used as shields. Cataphracts are a little better now that they have had their hitboxes updated, but nevertheless, they have the profile of a barn and their arms dont do much to protect them.

Edited by pbiggz, 22 January 2014 - 10:30 AM.


#14 MasonDune

    Member

  • Pip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 16 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 12:52 PM

View Postpbiggz, on 22 January 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

I am a long time brawler. here is what you need to know.

Brawlers take damage. Everything about the mech you take should be robust and based around soaking up damage so that you do not lose important components (such as weapons) before you take off your target's. Generally, brawlers take arrays of medium lasers, AC 20s, and artemis SRM 6s

Brawlers do the twist. I'll use orions as examples. The typical ON1-K brawler has 2-4 medium lasers (arm mounted), an Ac20 and 2 arty SRM 6s in the torsos. When piloting, you must practice and master DEFENSIVE TORSO TWIST. Treat your arms as expendable. A good brawler often will lose his arms. Expect them to fall off at some point. Use them as shields, and your torso weapons dont take damage. Then once they're gone, use your torsos as shields. The key is defending your center torso from damage. This is what make brawlers even remotely survivable, as their pinpoint alpha doesnt always compete with snipers.

Brawlers never go alone. Positioning is everything, and you at the very least want sniper cover fire. In a perfect world, you should be running with another brawler, with support from strikers AND snipers. Brawlers are meant to be the heart of the team. Heavy hitters that draw enemy fire, soak some damage (dont mistake brawling for tanking) but deal far more damage back while the team operates around them. Keep in mind that in the open you are toast, as your weapons are all short ranged, and if you are caught alone, your weaknesses are far easier to exploit.

My suggestion for mechs is the Atlas As7-DDC, as it is in the purest sense, the best brawler you can get. Use at least a standard 340 engine, put 2 medium lasers on the arms, 3 arty srm 6s, and an AC 20 on the torso, and torso twist aggressively.

If you would rather use a heavy mech, use an Orion On1-K with at least a standard 300, between 2 and 4 medium lasers, an AC20 and 2 Arty SRM 6s. It's an excellent brawler, but keep in mind it wont stand up to an atlas brawler without support and fancy footwork.

Keep in mind that srms are not reliably registering hits right now, so brawlers are hurting quite a bit because of that.

Brawlers NEVER TAKE XL engines. The drop in survivability makes them not worth it, despite the speed advantage you think you might have. Put in the biggest standard engine you can. (For an atlas, at least 340, for an orion, never drop below 300).

Mediums often fight at close range, but they are not "brawlers" in the pure sense. Alot of medium piloting centers around damage evasion, so it's not quite the same.

Never brawl in a jagermech or a cataphract. Jagermechs put too much firepower in their arms, which are also too small to effectively be used as shields. Cataphracts are a little better now that they have had their hitboxes updated, but nevertheless, they have the profile of a barn and their arms dont do much to protect them.


While I love the Atlas D-DC for brawling he does state he dosn't care for the atlas. I will say the Cataphract is my favorite brawler from the point that it has the speed and torso mounted ballistics and can be changed to ranged. Since he does not Like the Cataphrat I changed this to Jager for him for a couple of reasons. It gets the maneuverability of a medium mech with better armor. It can still mount an AC20 or run with a pair of LB 10X ac and mount SRM (an advantage the CTF does not have). It still has room for medium lasers. I will submit that the Orian is an excellent brawler but a lighter mech can compete int the same category. Jager is known as a glass cannon because they pull all of the armor off of it to fit the extra weapons. If you reduce the number of ballistic weapons you can maximize the armor. It would probably be better listed as a hybrid brawler/hit and run mech. It has enough to take few hits but fast enough to hide away. It can be refitted to work as a sniper as well.

Besides he loves AC/20. Might as well stick 2 on the Jager and have fun as the clean up mech from time to time.

Edited by MasonDune, 22 January 2014 - 12:53 PM.


#15 muskrat

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 234 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:14 PM

Salute
I prefer the Orion's ( I have 4) I run
Standard 300
2 large laser
Ac20
2 streak
ams
Bap

Only the O-K does not use the streak, I sub 2 med lasers (no bap)
fun, would be a lot more if I weren't such a terrible pilot.
at my age reflex's just aren't what they used to be

Muskrat

#16 Tahuti

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 58 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:37 PM

@AJDux

Tahuti started his ballistic adventure like you - on Dragons. Never in for the real brawl, always on the flanks.

Recently Tahuti learned brawling on the HBK4H. It's great for the brawler newbie. Cheap, STD engine, great hitboxes and survivability. Tahuti's K/D on this mech is the best he had 3.24 after 120 matches. Give it a try! You should have enough experience after the DRG to fully use the HBK.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4907a7c7160204d

#17 Tahribator

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 1,565 posts

Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:43 AM

Does Tahuti know you can do the same thing on a Shadowhawk with better hitboxes, more armor and jumpjets?

#18 Aluminumfoiled

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 189 posts
  • LocationErehwon

Posted 24 January 2014 - 04:04 AM

Shadowhawks, Phracts and Victors all mentioned are good mechs. If the high expense would not drive you off I would suggest the Victors. All around fast durable fun but the cost to buy and equip is high. You really need a XL350 or 360 (XL safe) to make them sing and when you do it is glorious.

You can put a big engine in phracts too but they are less XL friendly. With you having more experience give the Phracts another shot maybe. Cost wise the Shadowhawks are #1. Victors have real good hardpoints and you can mount anything, even LRMs (not LRM Mechs really).

#19 XX Sulla XX

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,094 posts

Posted 25 January 2014 - 02:56 AM

"Brawlers NEVER TAKE XL engines." This is very wrong for Victors. Victors with a 360xl or larger engine and elited speed and full jump jets work better with XL engines. But you do have to be good at using jump jets and twisting your torso and be able to keep moving and hit as you move. With the XL you cant just stand in front of people and let them concentrate on one site torso.

#20 DonGardenio

    Member

  • PipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • 92 posts

Posted 25 January 2014 - 05:42 PM

Just to add, Victors are absolutely gimped from a side torso loss anyway. Might as well take that XL-Engine, speed and firepower.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users