61 replies to this topic

[AlmightyAeng]

BillHones, on 06 February 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

everyone is still talking if's, but's, and assumptions, that this and only this is the only role you can have. I also didn't feel the need to point out that engaging another mech has to be in your favor. apparently I do. engaging another mech has to be in your favor.

to all of you that think they you are supposed to shoot the big guys first, what happens when I shoot you? now you have no lights. I can now do what you set out to do, to your team.

No, everyone is not talking "if's." They're telling you that your #1 Rule is wrong.

If you're getting easily taken out by assaults while piloting a light then you're either incredibly unlucky or just not a very good light pilot.

I'm assuming that by 'in your favor' you mean 'when you have the advantage.' Guess what...you have the advantage when fighting the big, slow-moving targets. You do NOT have an advantage when fighting lights.

So...without using any "if's" for you...allow me to state it simply:

As a light mech is it NOT your job to duel other light mechs!

Edit: And now I feel dirty and I'm looking over my shoulder for Roadbeer because you've been so dense that I descended into hyperbole to try to get a point across. Sigh. This thread is dead to me.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 07 February 2014 - 06:27 AM.

[Wispsy]

stjobe, on 06 February 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

Thankfully, since few or none of those are even present in MWO.

Who says there is no psychological warfare

On a more serious note...why would I bother wasting my time chasing some stupid hard to hit light through my team which is probably going to one-hit them soon anyway when I could be leading half the enemies on a merry chase around a hill making sure they accomplish nothing or finishing off hurt but lethal mechs that have retreated from the front line.

[Denolven]

Well, to be fair here, Lights SHOULD also kill other Lights if they have the ability to do that quickly. Both the Oxide and the Commando 2D, and maybe Jenner D and Raven 3L if they have nothing better to do, are so effective against other Lights that it would be a waste not killing them.

It all depends on the capability of the actual light mech you are piloting. If you have lots of Streaks, kill the lights then do you normal work. If you have no Streaks, the time is better spent near the enemy team.
Also, just because it is a medium's job to handle the squirrels, doesn't mean there is one in your team doing it. The game is still mostly heavies/assaults, accompanied by a few squirrels. Plus even if there is a medium, doesn't mean he can or is willing to handle lights. So it's always situational in random games.

[Xoxim SC]

As someone who is exclusively a medium pilot, I wait in the back for lights for come in and pick them apart. A lights job should be to attempt to distract people either by capping the base, or just being a general pain in the ass from a distance away from the rest of their team to create some sort of attention divide. Aside from that, only fools run off and chase after other lights, and generally are the first to die.

Edited by Todd Lightbringer, 07 February 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[The Schwartz]

Yeah, the fact that "role of lights" is even being used is funny. There are many varients of all classes of mechs that are better suited for taking on other mechs from other classes. I'll try to explain this carefully.
Shadowhawk and Kintaro vs lights is more effective than Blackjack vs lights.
This same principle goes to the lights, heavies, and assualts. Not every assualt is a tank, not every heavy is close range support, not every medium is good vs lights, not every light is good vs assualts or vs other lights.

Take the trial spider 5k for instance, completely horrible vs other lights but, completely awesome at exploiting missing armor and disarming assualts/heavies/some mediums.

It's really the role the player is choosing to play and using the according mech for it not the other way around. This is why there's no "primary combat role" in terms of targeted units because it depends what the mech itself is best suited to. Not all lights are equal in terms of what they can or cannot engage.

You typically wouldn't use an oxide vs an atlas or a spider vs a jenner.

[sneeking]

agressive sneeky unpredictable ( could be on top of a mountain adv zoom erll one moment and down in the battle humping a knee with four mg's rattling away )

schizophrenic spider pilot thats me

if you see me minding my own bizz pluggin away on some distant target with erll and catch me standing still a moment too long then a warning, blow an arm off with an alpha and my full attention will be yours. I will be there in seconds and I will be all over you so close ima look like a pixilated mess

[Khan Hallis]

Seems the only one that has made posts demonstrating they DON'T understand the role of light 'mechs is the OP. Everyone else seems to understand it, even the other Assault/Heavy pilots that have posted.

[sneeking]

spider on spider tangles seem to go on for ever, I can kill a atlas faster than another spider and do it with much less keyboard mashing.

its clear what a spider is ment to do ( make a right pain in the butt of itself for extended periods untill somewhere someone far far away smashes a keyboard ) lol

Edited by sneeking, 07 February 2014 - 10:34 PM.

[Zeede]

The OP also seems to missed the important fact that not all Lights are good Light hunters, just like not all Lights are scouts.

[xMintaka]

I'd say that any light that's not mounting streaks or SPulses should try and avoid light vs light combat as much as possible. Even if you come out on top you will sustain heavy damage unless the opposing pilot is a total scrub.

As such, it's probably best that you try and Rear CT/ST core the enemy heavies and assaults. Returning to defend your own heavies and assaults should it become necessary.

I believe mediums such as the SHD, GRF and KTO are far better at running interference against enemy lights than a light itself. Obviously this doesn't include specialised mechs <40 tonnes like the Oxide and COM-2D. Those two are probably better off providing ECM cover (in the case of the COM) until the enemy lights come sniffing or generally hanging around the slow movers on your team, waiting to shred any enemy fast movers that come towards you.

[Darian DelFord]

ROFL this topic was funny. The lights primary combat role is NOT to hunt other lights. The lights primary combat role is probably the most complext of any other weight class. If we limit ourseleves to staying behind and protecting the slow arse assaults we are wasted. Light pilots have to be extremely flexible and understand the battle conditions. I do not care how good a light pilot you are. If you do a light on light fight you are coming out of it with critical damage most of the time. I personally avoid light on light action unless I have no choice.

I pilot a Jenner most of the time and I will say to you what I say to everyone else. A Jenner is a Light mech NOT a scout mech. A Jenner's power is strategic Hit and Run. If our back lines are being harrassed by lights yes I will attempt to chase them off as the enemy light is distracted. If the back lines are safe I will go and harrass the other team.

IMHO the light pilot has to be the most flexible on the battlefield and honestly has to understand how the battle is going. Lights are in the best position to change most engagements.

[PACoFist]

Lights job is to be as annoying as possible. Sneak behind the enemy and shoot them in the back. If they ignore you keep shooting. If they turn around run away and come back later. Set them under pressure don´t let them feel save.
If you get an enraged assault mech with 60 kph to chase behind your 150 kph light mech, you have done your job.

[Mondos]

Why is everyone painting Lights as one group, play to each ones strength.
The COM-2D is a great escort mech, keeping your lance under ECM protection, ECM countering to give locks and scaring off other lights with triple streaks. What it doesn't have is the speed of a Jenner or the armour of an Ember or Raven.

[Bront]

Lights have several roles:

1) Scouting - This is not always forward scouting, but simply letting other mechs know what's going on on the field. A light mech can give information to an assault that it is protecting so it doesn't have to bother doing things like turning or deviating from it's course unless there's some need, and it lets the heavier mechs react better to better intelligence.

2) Flanking - Light Mechs can flank very well. While best not done alone, a large group of lights or lights and faster mediums/heavies can flank an opponent effectively.

3) Distraction - Getting the other team to "Squirrel chase" is an effective tactic. In the chaos of combat, it can be hard to tell where the light mech weapons fire is coming from vs the heavy mech fire. Using these to your advantage can turn the tide of a battle.

4) Carrion Picking - Nearly dead mechs are fodder for lights, and it's a great way to pick up kills while helping your team by removing potential targets that folks can spread damage to, or mechs that can run away and cap later. Remember, this is a team game, so it's not kill stealing, and it lets your heavy firepower mechs concentrate on taking down real threats vs sticks with 2 legs.

5) Light protection - Larger mechs sometimes can't handle lights. Having a defensive light around isn't a bad idea. Particularly for added protection like ECM, an extra AMS, and the ability to make lights think twice about bothering an assault.

6) Base capture and defense - The speed of lights lets them excel at this, but it should rarely be their primary function.

7) Small Sniper - Some light mechs can fill the sniper role effectively. Small profile, ECM, and ERLLs or ERPPCs can be deadly. Not every light can fill this role however.

Now, keep in mind, most light mechs can fill more than one of these roles at a time. (And I include the Cicada in this, it's effectively a light for it's role on the battlefield) But most mechs can't fill all of them, and many of these are not solely in the realm of lights. (For example, several mediums can fill some of these roles, and in some cases, fast assaults or heavies). Simply expecting every light to drop what they're doing and defend base is silly, particularly when some are not well equipped to do it, and often it's not just a few lights on base.

I've lost a game where I, as a jenner, held off 3 mechs on our base for a few minutes, all the while screaming for backup, and only 1 other light came. Beyond that, sometimes you might not have any lights left on your team, so simply saying "the lights will get it" is a great way to lose.

There's no reason your Victor, Shadowhawk, Cataphrat, or even Atlas can't come back to base to help on occasion, nor is there a reason you shouldn't occasionally cap (in conquest or in Assault). When you don't get back to base in time, it's a team failure, not a failure of your lights.

[Mycrus]

1453 R, on 06 February 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

I own thirty-six 'Mechs, if we're counting effectiveness by total time played/money spent. I've got you by five even discounting the two extra levels of Phoenix 'Mech I've got. But that's a dung argument, so let's leave it there, hmm?

i need help counting how many mechs i have

[Magna Canus]

In a way most of the people here are right in a specific context. Lights have more roles than the rest of the weight classes;

1) Harrasment
2) Capping (points & bases)
3) Scouting / Spotting
4) RTB defense
5) Ant-light defense
6) Wolf-pack Assault-grinder

Any of these can be invaluable or a waste of time in certain circumstances.

Should streak boats and mediums protect the assaults from lights? Yes, if there are any there. If not then that is a job for lights. No use in harassing the enemy when your own team is being harrased. If their lights are "better" or they have more then your heavies and assults might just get the pointy end of the wolf-pack stick.

Should your raven 3L be off sniping with 2xLLs? Sure, if he is not needed more by the group for ECM cover (team play > individual snipe fun). If you have a DDC on the team then ECM cover exists and you can go snipe. Or protect your 2xGaul Ilya on the sidelines from discovery for that extra effective cross-fire.

Like I said, situational. The mark of a good light pilot is not only to know that he may have a ton of roles to fill but also to know which to fill under the current circumstances.

[Dawnstealer]

Yeah - I use my 116kph Streaker Wolverine to hunt Lights, not my Lights.

Lights are best used as harassers and to get inexperienced players to "chase the squirrel." In non-skirmish games, they should be capping, finding the main enemy column, picking off lone Heavies and Assaults (even one Light can do this effectively). I tend to agree with the other posters: if you're hanging with the main group and moving at their glacial pace, you're missing the true advantage of a Light.

[oldradagast]

I'm only starting to get into light mechs, but it seems that their role changes more than any other class. They have the speed to react to issues - base caps, getting caps in Conquest, etc. They also can use that speed to change the battlefield: sniping enemy teams, tagging the base to get some of the enemy to wander back to it, etc.

In my limited combat experience - which is mostly lights with few Streaks - light on light battles take time and in the end, one team is only down a light mech. If, instead, I can use that time to carve off half an Atlas or kill a Jager, it's been better spent.

That being said, while I don't agree that a light mech's primary role is to keep other lights off the assaults, it is a role nonetheless. As a light mech, you have speed. If you seen an ally in trouble and there's something you can do about it, you should probably help. Sometimes, just tangling with a light that's harassing one of your assault mechs is enough to get the enemy to flee, and that's a victory of sorts, IMHO.

[John Mechlane]

The first advice I can give is to play in a group. We usually play a light lance, and we're gotten pretty efficient at it. About 70% of the time our lance is the main damage dealer.

Here's our game plan:

Skirmish: Try to get behind the enemy, find the stragglers who got left behind. Usually LRM boats (love the new trial stalkers...killing those is like playing easy mode) If we manage to find some lone wolfs, usually others start coming back to help. We stay until we can eat 'em up OR retreat back some more behind enemy lines, and pick off the mechs that come to follow us. If it's too many to handle, the we get out, try to relocate to the other flank, and kill/harrass the enemies there. All this is good, since we usually got quite a few enemy mechs distracted, so the fight on the main line should be ballanced, or tipped in our favor. The rest is up to the PUGs. When we cleaned out the back, we go and support our team. The worst thing that can happen, is that our other two lances get wiped out, while we're having fun in the back....but like i said, that's up to the pugs. If they decide to push too early, or simply can't play, we're doomed anyway.

Assault: almost the same tactics that we use in skirmish, with the advantage of going for the cap if needed. If you do this one of two thing can happen:
-The enemies start pouring back to defend, giving a chance for our team to push and crush. We get the hell out of dodge, but by that time the base has lost a lot of points, so even though we're not there, the enemy will probably post 1 or 2 guards at the base, making the job of our big guys on the front easier. Especially since we're now heading there to help them.

-The enemies start to push on our base. This happens if they're closer to our base, or they're idiots, and ignore the cap. In this case we have to go back, and start harassing them/picking them off OR stay there and do a full cap - we only do this if our team is losing by 4-5 kills. I don't think it's fun to stand on a base and cap it, but it's still better than losing right? Of course you have to deal with the negative comments

These assault/skirmish tactics work on most maps. There are some exceptions though. The best example would be HPG manifold. That maps is just too small to flank them/get behind them most of the time (It can be done, just not as easy as on other maps)


Conquest: This game mode differs in a lot. Our primary task is to cap points. We move together as lights. If we get overrun, we get outta there, and find a different point. On the way we engage targets of opportunity, but try to stay focused on capping. This is true for the first half of the game. On the second half things might change depending on how we stand with points and kills. We might continue capping, or we could just go hunt the enemies. We could even split up to cover more points. Sometimes you don't need to cap, just neutralize.
Conquest is always more fun than the other modes, because you never know whats gonna happen.

I found these tactics to work, of course there are many situations that require the lance to improvise, and execute on the fly. Fast and synchronized. The more you play together, the natural it comes:


I can't really give you advice when playing alone, your chances of survival are a lot smaller of you follow the above tactics. You will be much less of a damage dealer, and a lot more of a harasser, supporter. It's not worth to go head to head against another light (except if you can see that he's not that good of a pilot) Instead try to lure enemies back to your team. Make sure that they can handle it, if they are already getting hit by enemy fire, try to lure enemies away instead. The more experienced the pilot, the less you can lure them. (but keep in mind that everyone can go berserk...even i find myself going after one annoying mech, and kill him, or die trying. sh*t happens )

General tasks:
UAV - if the enemy is moving together in a tight formation, just run into the middle of if, and drop a UAV. Good for XPing, and even better to relay info.
Arty/Airstrike - You have the speed to get to a place where they don't expect you. Get behind them, with a nice view, wait for them to tighten up and drop it...take your time.
Spotting/taging - a light (preferably with ecm) behind enemy lines can be very very annoying.you can be far away to spot, or go a little closer to tag.



Some people said that lights should hunt down enemy lights, and defend our tema against them. That's just not true. We have mediums for that task, armed with streaks and a lot of lasers. Yes, you're gonna run into lights if you follow the tactics described above. And most of the times you're gonna have to finish them off. This takes time (it usually takes as long as taking down an atlas), Engage if you have to, but don't follow him back to his team, you're gonna get shredded) You should always be aggressive, keep pressure on the enemy, but do it smart.



Really liked this, because it's true most of the time :

Ghost Badger, on 06 February 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

OP...no...think of it this way. 80% of the time, skill being equal...

Light = Rock
Medium = Paper
Heavy/assault = scissors

You don't bring a rock to beat a rock. You bring paper. Then you take the rock and bash the scissors in the ass repeatedly.

Edited by JaniTheWeedman, 20 February 2014 - 08:15 AM.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

1453 R, on 06 February 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

Light 'Mechs, instead, will support from the rear - the enemy's rear, that is. And by support I mean nightmarishly violate, and by the enemy's rear I mean up the enemy's rear. With my fist. With lasers on the end of it.

You mean like this?



lol, dual fist action!