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Dont Get Too Comfy Ladies...


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#1 Merlin Kerensky

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 05:33 AM

its only a matter of time til you have to pick which side of the wolves youre on... :)

always bet on black...

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#2 Craig Steele

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 05:40 AM

View PostMerlin Kerensky, on 17 February 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

its only a matter of time til you have to pick which side of the wolves youre on... ;)

always bet on black...

Posted Image


These are the guys who lost the Refusal War and ran away right?

Instead of fighting it out to the end, they took off (alledgedly 'ordered') and left the remenants of the touman to face the Jade Falcons? Chose not to join the comrades in a desperate fight for the future of the Clan and withdrew from the field to beg for refuge with a freebirths 'daddy'?

The ones who believe 'might is right' as long as you're winning, if you're losing might is "maybe, coulda, shoulda"?

Quiaff?

:)

#3 Merlin Kerensky

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 06:02 AM

The Refusal War of 3057 began when Clan Jade Falcon fought Clan Wolf in a Trial of Refusal to determine if they should break the Truce of Tukayyid and renew the Clans' offensives against the Inner Sphere, which the Warden-dominated Wolves opposed.

Without Khan Phelan and WX, there would be no Arc Royal Defense Cordon with the Kell Hounds, sacrifices are made for the greater good..

And the IlKhan gave us his final words, Charging us to protect those with whom we found refuge in our time of need. In this, our final duty, we shall not fail.
-The Remembrance (Clan Wolf in Exile) Passage 411, Verse 16, Lines 1-4
:)

#4 Craig Steele

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 06:10 AM

View PostMerlin Kerensky, on 17 February 2014 - 06:02 AM, said:

The Refusal War of 3057 began when Clan Jade Falcon fought Clan Wolf in a Trial of Refusal to determine if they should break the Truce of Tukayyid and renew the Clans' offensives against the Inner Sphere, which the Warden-dominated Wolves opposed.

Without Khan Phelan and WX, there would be no Arc Royal Defense Cordon with the Kell Hounds, sacrifices are made for the greater good..

And the IlKhan gave us his final words, Charging us to protect those with whom we found refuge in our time of need. In this, our final duty, we shall not fail.
-The Remembrance (Clan Wolf in Exile) Passage 411, Verse 16, Lines 1-4
:)


So yes, thats the guys.

The ones that left their touman fighting for their lives to prove the Warden way was right and instead of returning to the battle to prove to all in the Clan way of 'might is right', they took off.

They couldn't prove their way was right through feat of arms, so the left the Clans. If you can't beat em, run like hell is their motto I guess. Whats that in Latin I wonder?

So now their in the Innersphere clinging to the glories of their betters claiming to be in Exile, bit like the Dark Caste really? They feel like they are Exiles of the Clans too don't they?

#5 Merlin Kerensky

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 06:22 AM

not exactly,
exiled are the ones who held off and drove back the Jade falcons by themselves with Clan Wolf still worrying about the truce.. instead of sitting idle letting the grand council squander the time arguing amongst themselves... thus saving and preserving the codex per kerenskys wishes..

while they have a bond to the clans, the kell hounds and the ARDC is where their loyalties lie.. had they not been honorable in their decision, the remerger into clan wolf eventually would never have happen, altho some say clan wolf wanting them back was selfishly to re-assimilate the codex not by bloodright right, but by treaty..

politics lead to the war of attrition..

Edited by Merlin Kerensky, 17 February 2014 - 06:26 AM.


#6 Craig Steele

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 06:42 AM

View PostMerlin Kerensky, on 17 February 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

not exactly,
exiled are the ones who held off and drove back the Jade falcons by themselves with Clan Wolf still worrying about the truce.. instead of sitting idle letting the grand council squander the time arguing amongst themselves... thus saving and preserving the codex per kerenskys wishes..

while they have a bond to the clans, the kell hounds and the ARDC is where their loyalties lie.. had they not been honorable in their decision, the remerger into clan wolf eventually would never have happen, altho some say clan wolf wanting them back was selfishly to re-assimilate the codex not by bloodright right, but by treaty..

politics lead to the war of attrition..


LOL, nice save, but I'm not buying just yet :)

I still think when Phelan had the chance to prove the Warden cause with a quick jump to Ulric's side and duke it out Clan style, he turned the other way cause he was 'ordered' to.

What was winning worth. Jade Falcon is embarressed, probably ejected from IS by the resurging Fed Com, Wolf maybe ejected, couldn't hold off the Steel Vipers and Ghost Bears I suspect, Diamond Sharks too.

Wolves go back to Clan space (which was fine by them as they didn't invade for the resopurces / world, only as they were Kerensky's nominal Clan) and Ulric has the votes to be Il Khan.

Calls it quits on the Invasion, sends out peace feelers (read, offers Hegira). Tells the IS he has 10 more Clans champing at the bit to come forward and if they want keep fighting to protect any Clan holdings in IS.

Warden reigns supreme.

But when it was all there for the taking, Phelan headed the other way........

#7 CyclonerM

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 06:22 AM

Ulric Kerensky was aware that even if they managed to defeat the Falcons, another Crusader Clan would have challenged them. In such a scenario, the already weakened Wolves may have been defeated by mere numbers.

Thus, he decided to send the Crusader elements of Clan Wolf fighting against the Crusader Jade Falcons (to further weak the Crusaders' cause) and then preserve the Warden part of Clan Wolf sending them in the Inner Sphere.

But the exiled Wolves were NOT sitting idle. They were rebuilding their strenght to accomplish their mission: defend the Inner Sphere, specificly the ARDC worlds and the Steiner border with the Jade Falcons' OZ, from the renewed invasion that would happen eventually.

Preserving the true core of the Wolves so they will rebuild and further the Warden cause instead of sending them to die in a hopeless series of Trials of Annihilation.

Not counting that the Falcons used treachery and disregard for Clan trying to Absorb the Wolves.
And killing Khan Urlic Kerensky in an coward ambush when a duel was declared.

#8 Craig Steele

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 06:51 AM

View PostCyclonerM, on 21 February 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

Ulric Kerensky was aware that even if they managed to defeat the Falcons, another Crusader Clan would have challenged them. In such a scenario, the already weakened Wolves may have been defeated by mere numbers.

Thus, he decided to send the Crusader elements of Clan Wolf fighting against the Crusader Jade Falcons (to further weak the Crusaders' cause) and then preserve the Warden part of Clan Wolf sending them in the Inner Sphere.

But the exiled Wolves were NOT sitting idle. They were rebuilding their strenght to accomplish their mission: defend the Inner Sphere, specificly the ARDC worlds and the Steiner border with the Jade Falcons' OZ, from the renewed invasion that would happen eventually.

Preserving the true core of the Wolves so they will rebuild and further the Warden cause instead of sending them to die in a hopeless series of Trials of Annihilation.

Not counting that the Falcons used treachery and disregard for Clan trying to Absorb the Wolves.
And killing Khan Urlic Kerensky in an coward ambush when a duel was declared.


LOL.

But it still comes down to Ulric lost the 'might is right' equation and gave up. He fought on the basis he was right, but when he started loosing he gave it away.

And you forget, Ulric as Il Khan was charged with executing the Council's wishes, not his personal agenda. And the Council was Crusader. So in all honesty Ulric has been a traitor to the Clans for some time prior to the refusal war.

Nothing wrong with Wolf being absorbed by Jade Falcon, that's the clan way. Wolf could have contested it, of wait. They already were and loosing. Given they were traitors to the Clans, they probably got off lightly, should have been annihilated had the other Khans known.

So ummm, not strong enough to even maintain their Clan as independant let alone charge into the Inner Sphere.

The 'Exiled' Wolves as you call them are not Clan. They can do what they like but they have already abandoned the Clan way when they fled the field of battle.

Whats left is no better than Dark Caste bandits. Win or loose, they are irrelevant now. Barring some Clan being desperate enough to claim them as Isorla, they have already chosen the path and abandoned Kerensky's vision. That they are so weak they need the protection of birth parents and the Lyran forces speaks volumes as to their strength.

#9 Baron Cunedda Kell

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 08:38 AM

Priceless...the warden/crusader debate still rages on, after all these years...my heart leaps with joy. :)

#10 CyclonerM

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 08:44 AM

View PostCraig Steele, on 21 February 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:


LOL.

But it still comes down to Ulric lost the 'might is right' equation and gave up. He fought on the basis he was right, but when he started loosing he gave it away.

And you forget, Ulric as Il Khan was charged with executing the Council's wishes, not his personal agenda. And the Council was Crusader. So in all honesty Ulric has been a traitor to the Clans for some time prior to the refusal war.

Nothing wrong with Wolf being absorbed by Jade Falcon, that's the clan way. Wolf could have contested it, of wait. They already were and loosing. Given they were traitors to the Clans, they probably got off lightly, should have been annihilated had the other Khans known.


So ummm, not strong enough to even maintain their Clan as independant let alone charge into the Inner Sphere.

The 'Exiled' Wolves as you call them are not Clan. They can do what they like but they have already abandoned the Clan way when they fled the field of battle.

Whats left is no better than Dark Caste bandits. Win or loose, they are irrelevant now. Barring some Clan being desperate enough to claim them as Isorla, they have already chosen the path and abandoned Kerensky's vision. That they are so weak they need the protection of birth parents and the Lyran forces speaks volumes as to their strength.


Their strenght is reduced because the Wardens were not the majority anymore.. The new warriors forgot the true dream of Kerensky and followed the Crusaders' dreams of glory.

Ulric did not give it away. If we just had to defeat the Falcons, we could have done it. Instead, he saw how many envyious Clans were ready to absorb us and wanted to preserve the Wolves and their mission.

He was not a traitor: he understood how the invasion was wrong, and how it could have meant the corruption of the Clans and, if nothing else, their defeat. The Crusaders blindly invaded and got defeated at the hand of inferior Inner Sphere forces. If might makes right, how could you say the Khan of the Clan which conquered far more worlds than any other and was the only victorious on Tukayyid was wrong?

The Wolves had bid their strenght in a Trial of Refusal and the Falcons illegally changed it to a Trial of Absorption. Of course, you know how much have the Jade Wolves lived. Ulric Kerensky himself was killed by treachery.

And after all, the Falcons were so badly hurt that they needed a desperate strike in the Lyran alliance to avoid to be Absorbed themselves by another Clan, and were stopped by Lyran forces and forced to jump back (though Vlad Ward helped with his threats to Khan Marthe Pryde).

We see many Inner Sphere warriors and even mercenaries are worth of respect. Thus, we settled in the ARDC to defend the Inner Sphere, our home.

View PostBaron Cunedda Kell, on 21 February 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Priceless...the warden/crusader debate still rages on, after all these years...my heart leaps with joy. :)


You have a good reason to be joyful. You may be interested in this thread i started.. http://mwomercs.com/...en-or-crusader/ :D

#11 Craig Steele

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 07:07 PM

View PostCyclonerM, on 21 February 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:


Their strenght is reduced because the Wardens were not the majority anymore.. The new warriors forgot the true dream of Kerensky and followed the Crusaders' dreams of glory.

Ulric did not give it away. If we just had to defeat the Falcons, we could have done it. Instead, he saw how many envyious Clans were ready to absorb us and wanted to preserve the Wolves and their mission.

He was not a traitor: he understood how the invasion was wrong, and how it could have meant the corruption of the Clans and, if nothing else, their defeat. The Crusaders blindly invaded and got defeated at the hand of inferior Inner Sphere forces. If might makes right, how could you say the Khan of the Clan which conquered far more worlds than any other and was the only victorious on Tukayyid was wrong?

The Wolves had bid their strenght in a Trial of Refusal and the Falcons illegally changed it to a Trial of Absorption. Of course, you know how much have the Jade Wolves lived. Ulric Kerensky himself was killed by treachery.

And after all, the Falcons were so badly hurt that they needed a desperate strike in the Lyran alliance to avoid to be Absorbed themselves by another Clan, and were stopped by Lyran forces and forced to jump back (though Vlad Ward helped with his threats to Khan Marthe Pryde).

We see many Inner Sphere warriors and even mercenaries are worth of respect. Thus, we settled in the ARDC to defend the Inner Sphere, our home.



You have a good reason to be joyful. You may be interested in this thread i started.. http://mwomercs.com/...en-or-crusader/ :D


Their strength was reduced because it had no basis, it is the pipe dream of those too weak to take what is rightfully theirs by the strength that is Clan. The wardens desire for glory unearned in combat, pffffttttt.

Ulric did give it away, he only had to beat the Falcons, it was a trial. Had he done so the other clans would have pause to reconsider their stance given the Wolves had proven in combat their view were valid.

That they did not demonstrates to all that the warden view is weak. It has no basis in the Clan. Even when Ulric had the chance of proving it in combat, he ordered Phelan and other home assets to abandon the Clans because he saw no chance of his fireside daydream coming to reality unless he could back it up in combat, which he could not do.

Far to many soft tummies in the Wolves, they had grown lazy and are not worthy of the honour of being a Clan.

Nothing the Falcons did was not without the sanction of the Grand Council, nothing illegal at all. Ulric was not killed by treachary. He bid the Wolf Touman, Falcon bid their touman. He should not have been surprised that the Falcon touman included a small number of artillery mechs, Wolves have long been proponents of the same. Artillery was bid and accepted. It is a sign of his weakness that he allowed himself to be taken by surprise.

The only treachery Ulric encountered was in his heart when he betrayed the wished of the Grand Council to execute the invasion of the Inner Sphere in his own manner. He sought not the glorius conquest of the barbarians, but rather his own version. The bidding of Tukayyid for which he was rightly charged is only the least of crimes. A thousand deaths would be insufficient for his manipulation of the Grand Councils orders.

You see weakness in the Falcons attacking, more proof of your fireside daydreams being preferred to the glory of combat. Your recollection of the battle of Coventary is somewhat deluded. The Falcons destroyed all those they found and took the planet. When the Inner Sphere sent reinforcements the Falcons granted them safcon in the Clan way. When they met with the leaders of the force and were offered Hegira, an honour extended in the Clan fashion.

Given the Falcons had already won, there was no value in defeating them again while the traitous remenants of Clan Wolf implied they had strength to attack. The Falcons knew enough that they had achieved their goal and returned to won possession. They had not attempted to seize the planet, they had attempted to blood their warriors.

That you find something to admire in the mercenary dezgra of the Inner Sphere says volumes about how far you have fallen from the Clan ways. Best you stay in the Inner Sphere and share their fate. The Falcons will come for you soon enough.

:P

#12 GalaxyBluestar

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 07:30 PM

View PostBaron Cunedda Kell, on 21 February 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Priceless...the warden/crusader debate still rages on, after all these years...my heart leaps with joy. :P


for 1000+ years from now at least :D

#13 Samaritan

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:18 PM

Hon. Mechwarriors;

Regardless of which side you choose Clan Wolf mechwarriors make excellant bondsmen. The Hell's Horses toumane VI Gallaxy stands ready to welcome you as depicted here.


Posted Image

Timber Wolf pilots preferred... :P

Respectfully

Samaritan

#14 SaltBeef

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:59 PM

Cool colors but not a sweet as the Smoke Jaguar colors. I feel the Jags got the sore end of the stick in Battletech. Sure they were arrogant , overbearing, ruthless, but they believed in their cause more than any other clan. They believed in it so much that they put thier full hand out in the invasion giving 110%. Leaving thier homeworlds defended by thier older warriors , (which would have been harder to destroy as they were seasoned vets even if in 2C tech levels ). If the other clan had participated with that level of fortitude the invasion would have been swift and complete. But NOOooooOOO!, They had to leave assets behind to protect themselves from one anothers greedy trials of possession instead of working as a team under thier ILkhan to take terra and remake the Starleague. They suffered the same fate of thier inner sphere counterparts. The clans could not breed the brotherhood mankind so badly needed in thier sibko's.

#15 M4NTiC0R3X

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 05:32 AM

I am really enjoying reading both sides of the argument, it's like I'm in the grand council and Jade Falcon v Clan Wolf in Exile battle.

(Wardens FTW)

#16 Gyrok

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:14 PM

You know, you say the Falcons won...but let's recount the series of events without the slant of the post trial of absorption view point:

Vlad Ward and Marialle Radick launched the investigation against Ulric Kerensky. Those names ring a bell, quiaff?

The undoing of the Wardens was at the hands of the children who were not chastised and disciplined as they should have been for reaching after a cookie too quickly.

The charges against him were just a ploy, the Grand Council approved the battle, and the Clans that lost at Tukayyid lost to over confidence and under bidding forces. These were mistakes that Ulric warned against, though the Clansmen wanted to outdo each other, and they highly underestimated ComStar's forces and skill.

Ulric basically told Vlad Ward and the others how the ordeal was going to be up front when they leveled the charges against him. He picked apart all the accusations and showed them where they were logically impossible, all this before he outright dismissed the charges which is a right of the ilKhan.

Then, the loremaster called the BS charges about trying to destroy genetic heritage in a round about way. After the very narrow guilty verdict, the Trial of Refusal (nay Trial of Annihilation) that would become the Great Refusal War went underway.

Now, the beauty of Ulric's vision by sending the Wardens to exile was to annihilate crusader Falcons by making Crusader wolves fight them.

This is where the master strategist has outplayed the Crusaders at their own game. The wardens were sent to exile to reform and mend old wounds and rebuild strength. All the while, the crusader wolves would fight the crusader falcons, thereby directly weakening the 2 strongest crusader warrior castes to nearly annihilation in the process. Which would hold off the entire invasion a great deal longer than politics ever would. Game. Set. Match.

If we were playing chess, this would be the King sacrificing the Queen for checkmate.

Let us not forget, the Falcons completely disbanded the following units because the losses suffered put them beyond reforming:

Omicron Galaxy:
4th Striker
4th Talon
4th Provisional
14th Regulars
17th Regulars

Vau Galaxy:
4th Velites
89th Striker
94th Striker
Peregrine Eyrie
Peregrine Solahma

That is 2 entire galaxies alone, much less the other units that were completely ripped to pieces.

On Twycross, Natasha Kerensky killed many, many Jade Falcons before they were able to take her down, the Jade Falcons may have won, but the cost of winning was so great they ultimately lost.

Strategy > Might.

Edited by Gyrok, 22 February 2014 - 03:30 PM.


#17 Craig Steele

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 06:19 PM

View PostGyrok, on 22 February 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

You know, you say the Falcons won...but let's recount the series of events without the slant of the post trial of absorption view point:

Vlad Ward and Marialle Radick launched the investigation against Ulric Kerensky. Those names ring a bell, quiaff?

The undoing of the Wardens was at the hands of the children who were not chastised and disciplined as they should have been for reaching after a cookie too quickly.

The charges against him were just a ploy, the Grand Council approved the battle, and the Clans that lost at Tukayyid lost to over confidence and under bidding forces. These were mistakes that Ulric warned against, though the Clansmen wanted to outdo each other, and they highly underestimated ComStar's forces and skill.

Ulric basically told Vlad Ward and the others how the ordeal was going to be up front when they leveled the charges against him. He picked apart all the accusations and showed them where they were logically impossible, all this before he outright dismissed the charges which is a right of the ilKhan.

Then, the loremaster called the BS charges about trying to destroy genetic heritage in a round about way. After the very narrow guilty verdict, the Trial of Refusal (nay Trial of Annihilation) that would become the Great Refusal War went underway.

Now, the beauty of Ulric's vision by sending the Wardens to exile was to annihilate crusader Falcons by making Crusader wolves fight them.

This is where the master strategist has outplayed the Crusaders at their own game. The wardens were sent to exile to reform and mend old wounds and rebuild strength. All the while, the crusader wolves would fight the crusader falcons, thereby directly weakening the 2 strongest crusader warrior castes to nearly annihilation in the process. Which would hold off the entire invasion a great deal longer than politics ever would. Game. Set. Match.

If we were playing chess, this would be the King sacrificing the Queen for checkmate.

Let us not forget, the Falcons completely disbanded the following units because the losses suffered put them beyond reforming:

Omicron Galaxy:
4th Striker
4th Talon
4th Provisional
14th Regulars
17th Regulars

Vau Galaxy:
4th Velites
89th Striker
94th Striker
Peregrine Eyrie
Peregrine Solahma

That is 2 entire galaxies alone, much less the other units that were completely ripped to pieces.

On Twycross, Natasha Kerensky killed many, many Jade Falcons before they were able to take her down, the Jade Falcons may have won, but the cost of winning was so great they ultimately lost.

Strategy > Might.


The source of the charges came from within the Wolf Clan true, not all it's members are as cowardly and decietful and Ulric and Vlad has proven himself in combat many times since. He is a warrior to be respected for pursuing the truth that is the glory of the Clans within the ranks of Clan Wolf even when persecuted by his self annointed 'senior officers'

The undoing of the Wardens is not in the hands of children, it is in the rotteness of it's core. A weakness proven in the field during the Refusal wars.

But it was Ulric who negotiated the proxy bid, and commanded the Clans to accept. Well the Clans should have approached the field in confidence their Il Khan had negotiated and bid on favourable terms, yet Ulric conceded many advantages to the defenders and under played these concessions to the other Clans.

You say the Grand Council is suceptable to ploys? That the assembled Khans incapable of judging fairly the charges brought before it. They found no ploy, they found the charges proven and Ulric requested a trial of refusal as is his right. He sought to prove in combat the Warden method had a place in our culture. He failed, and hence he was wrong. You walk a dangerous line here my friend when you imply the Grand Council is incompetent. Refresh yourself with Sarah McEvedy and the fate of the Not Named.

Of course he dismissed the charges brought against him, he had no wish to answer them. He had already abused the power entrusted unto him as Il Khan, why would he stop?

As for master strategist, hardly. Two Clans fought, much as Clans have fought for 250 years. The supposed weakness he sought to create was clearly not evident in Jade Falcon 12 months later at Coventry, although I will concede that Clan Wolf has made no offensive move in the years since so perhaps the Wolf Clan is weaker than Vlad espouses. Were there casualities, of course. We do not shy away from the cost of demonstrating our strength. Clan Wolf's casualities were far higher, their touman was larger and they lost. The lost because they were weak and their cause invalid.

The Wardens were sent into the Inner Sphere only when Ulric realised that his Clan was lost. He finally came to understand that the Wardens could not prevail because of their weakness and so in a vain attempt to ensure his own legacy he ordered those few remainders of Clan Wolf to abandon the Clans. Not to exile, exile is the self annointed name those pathetic remenants bestowed upon themselves. Amongst the Clans we know them for what they are, traitors and dezgra, Abjured. They fled the field to save their lives and a way of life proven weak through combat. Well they may hide and recover their strength, so they should. They will need it.

You say Ulric sought to disuade further invasion of the Inner Sphere by weakening a Crusader Clan, I say false. All Clans were bound to the Truce of Tukayyid the traitor Ulric forced upon them, no invasion of the Inner Sphere would have proceeded until it expired. He fought for his own life and his Wardens views, and he lost.

As for Natasha, none would say she was not a competent warrior. But at her ultimate test, when her fundamental belief's of her Warden view were tested, she failed.

Might is greater than Strategy, this is the way of the Clans. To debate otherwise is to demonstrate how far you fallen from Kerensky's vision.

EDIT: Forgot to add smily face ;)

Edited by Craig Steele, 22 February 2014 - 06:44 PM.


#18 Uncle Totty

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:29 PM

View PostCraig Steele, on 22 February 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:


The source of the charges came from within the Wolf Clan true, not all it's members are as cowardly and decietful and Ulric and Vlad has proven himself in combat many times since. He is a warrior to be respected for pursuing the truth that is the glory of the Clans within the ranks of Clan Wolf even when persecuted by his self annointed 'senior officers'

The undoing of the Wardens is not in the hands of children, it is in the rotteness of it's core. A weakness proven in the field during the Refusal wars.

But it was Ulric who negotiated the proxy bid, and commanded the Clans to accept. Well the Clans should have approached the field in confidence their Il Khan had negotiated and bid on favourable terms, yet Ulric conceded many advantages to the defenders and under played these concessions to the other Clans.

You say the Grand Council is suceptable to ploys? That the assembled Khans incapable of judging fairly the charges brought before it. They found no ploy, they found the charges proven and Ulric requested a trial of refusal as is his right. He sought to prove in combat the Warden method had a place in our culture. He failed, and hence he was wrong. You walk a dangerous line here my friend when you imply the Grand Council is incompetent. Refresh yourself with Sarah McEvedy and the fate of the Not Named.

Of course he dismissed the charges brought against him, he had no wish to answer them. He had already abused the power entrusted unto him as Il Khan, why would he stop?

As for master strategist, hardly. Two Clans fought, much as Clans have fought for 250 years. The supposed weakness he sought to create was clearly not evident in Jade Falcon 12 months later at Coventry, although I will concede that Clan Wolf has made no offensive move in the years since so perhaps the Wolf Clan is weaker than Vlad espouses. Were there casualities, of course. We do not shy away from the cost of demonstrating our strength. Clan Wolf's casualities were far higher, their touman was larger and they lost. The lost because they were weak and their cause invalid.

The Wardens were sent into the Inner Sphere only when Ulric realised that his Clan was lost. He finally came to understand that the Wardens could not prevail because of their weakness and so in a vain attempt to ensure his own legacy he ordered those few remainders of Clan Wolf to abandon the Clans. Not to exile, exile is the self annointed name those pathetic remenants bestowed upon themselves. Amongst the Clans we know them for what they are, traitors and dezgra, Abjured. They fled the field to save their lives and a way of life proven weak through combat. Well they may hide and recover their strength, so they should. They will need it.

You say Ulric sought to disuade further invasion of the Inner Sphere by weakening a Crusader Clan, I say false. All Clans were bound to the Truce of Tukayyid the traitor Ulric forced upon them, no invasion of the Inner Sphere would have proceeded until it expired. He fought for his own life and his Wardens views, and he lost.

As for Natasha, none would say she was not a competent warrior. But at her ultimate test, when her fundamental belief's of her Warden view were tested, she failed.

Might is greater than Strategy, this is the way of the Clans. To debate otherwise is to demonstrate how far you fallen from Kerensky's vision.

EDIT: Forgot to add smily face ;)

I find it really funny, all your boasting on how weak we are. With all the "facts" you bring, you ALWAYS overlook one simple one.

We are still here, and your Clan has done nothing to change that. :D

#19 Craig Steele

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:52 PM

View PostNathan K, on 22 February 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

I find it really funny, all your boasting on how weak we are. With all the "facts" you bring, you ALWAYS overlook one simple one.

We are still here, and your Clan has done nothing to change that. :D



I boast not at all, merely relate the facts.

You're only there because you ran, but yes. Anyone can survive a battle by running from it, if they run fast enough.

But the OP laid claim to being the true inheritors of Clan Wolf, I say that the Great Founder would be embarressed to have his name associated with this "Wolf In Exile".

These self labelled Wolves make pretenses at conducting themselves as Clans but when tested, fail. Possessing Omnimechs does not make a Clan.

Led by a freebirth, hiding behind the skirts of his freebirth parents, shielded by barbarian armies, dreaming of glories lost on the field of battle.

This is not the vision of Kerensky.

;)

Edited by Craig Steele, 22 February 2014 - 10:53 PM.


#20 CyclonerM

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 04:14 AM

After i mistakenly lost my whole new post, i was not much willing to write another one, but i will, because i see you speak so high of the Falcons' martial strenght but you sound more interested in wars of words like us ;)

First, the Trial of Annihilation was illegal. It was a Trial of Refusal. The envious Falcons even tried to absorb the Wolves but you know how long have the Jade Wolves lived.

Their whole "victory", a pyrrhic victory as Gyrok pointed out, was illegal. You claim to be the most honorable Clan. You even claim to be true followers of the Clan way.. But Khan Chistu must not be a Jade Falcon then: he ambushed Ulric Kerensky after a honorable duel had been proclaimed, designating his and his honor guard 'Mechs for hidden LRM Stars instead of facing him in single combat. I say he was a coward!

The events tell us the Crusader Khans were blinded by their presumed superiority. They ignored the IlKhan's advices, each one eager bid low to not allow the Wolves to join the battle in time and share the glory of the victory, and later claimed Ulric Kerensky was plotting against them, while during the invasion, until Tukayyid and even later, the Crusaders did their best to plot against him, envious of the Wolves' success.

False accusations led to the Refusal War eventually.

Back to Chistu's treacherous murder.. Shall i remind you of what happened to Clan Widowmaker when a similar action happened and resulted with the death of Nicholas Kerensky? :D

Now i go so far as saying that your accusations of weakness and cowardly are false, just as false as the accusations made by the Crusader Khans :D

Edited by CyclonerM, 23 February 2014 - 04:15 AM.






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