44 replies to this topic

[ShinVector]

IraqiWalker, on 27 February 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

Honestly, you want to deal with lights, get SSRMs, with artemis (weightless upgrade), and BAP. Find them, lock on them, and annihilate them. Also, get your hands on ER modules for SSRMs, if you have the space for them.

I think you missed a few critical points in the history lesson.
1. The introduction of HSR that help level the playing field across the board.
2. The were and issue of borked SSRM/SRM/LRM splash damage. A single SRM6 could kill a trial commando. (PGI thought it is working as intended at the time. DOH !!!)

[IraqiWalker]

ShinVector, on 02 March 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

I think you missed a few critical points in the history lesson.
1. The introduction of HSR that help level the playing field across the board.
2. The were and issue of borked SSRM/SRM/LRM splash damage. A single SRM6 could kill a trial commando. (PGI thought it is working as intended at the time. DOH !!!)

You are correct. I forgot about eh splash damage cataclysm where a single salvo of SRM6s could deal over 50 damage

[Akerlof]

I've seen a lot of lights, but I've also seen a lot of really newby lights as well. Maybe it's just my Elo, but I'm seeing a lot more lights stopping and hosing down an assault mech with their MGs as soon as the armor on a location is stripped recently. A couple tips for dealing with lights:

1.) They're MUCH easier to hit when they're running in a straight line, especially when that line is straight towards you or away from you.

2.) When a light is circling another mech, they are going to be running straight at or away from you twice during their orbit. Save your shots for then and anticipate where they will be when they do face you. (That takes practice.)

3.) Lights cannot change their direction while jumping, just their facing. They might feel like a fighter jet when those 12 jump jets kick in, but they're much more vulnerable the longer they're in the air. This is a great time to shoot them in the legs with lasers.

4.) Shoot. The. Legs.

5.) Target the light to see where it's hit, and familiarize yourself with hitboxes. It's still probably better to aim for the legs of a Jenner or Spider with an open side torso and yellow legs, but if a Jenner's CT is open kill it.

6.) Back up when a light is circling you, it gives the light less time to shoot at your back as it circles and makes the circle more of an oval, giving you a better chance to shoot at it as it's moving almost directly at or away from you.
6a.) Try to fight them in the open. It gives them more room to maneuver, but they're going to be running circles around you regardless. More importantly, it gives you more room to maneuver making it much harder for them to concentrate their fire on one point of your mech. 6 medium lasers on your LT is nasty, 6 medium lasers across both arms, LT, CT, RT, the wall behind you, and maybe a leg isn't so bad.
6b.) I'm not sure that 6a. applies to slower heavies and assaults since I don't play those.

7.) Run for help. If lights are attacking you, the more friends you have shooting at them the more likely they are to get distracted or get dead before you die.

8.) Don't chase the squirrel!
8a.) Don't chase after a light that is running away unless you're in a light hunter.
8b.) If a light is attacking your group, don't close in on it and get in the way of your allies shots. It's not too hard to take more damage from your friends and prevent killing shots on the light by running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

9.) Unload everything you have, preferably on a leg, when a light gives you a clean shot. You might not be able to take out a fresh CT with one alpha, but you're decently likely to take out a leg, and you're certainly likely to make it much easier to kill on a followup laser sweep if you unload when the light stops or runs in a straight line.

10.) Prioritize targets. That Firestarter is annoying and will eventually kill you. But that AC 20 Hunchback or Blackjack or Shadowhawk will kill you Right The **** Now, but is easier to kill itself. Keep moving so you don't give the light a free kill, but kill or neuter the high alpha, less maneuverable mechs first.
10a.) Alternatively, move away from those high damage, low speed heavies and assaults to deal with the lights separately.

Edited by Akerlof, 05 March 2014 - 01:18 PM.

[PieRat]

As a light pilot... Best way to deal with a light....Streaks...

Mechs vulnerable to a good light... All.

That goes for any of the light chassis. Even the Locust on a rare occasion.

Edited by PieRat, 05 March 2014 - 01:46 PM.

[loopala]

Akerlof, on 05 March 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

4.) SHOOT! THE! LEGS!!!!

only thing i could find to fix should be shouted at every newbe in the best 120db drill sgt voice available

and on 6b with slow heavies and assaults some times it is best to get your back to a wall to protect your lower armor and force the light into your weapons arc.

also counter rotate once in awhile. so the light is running into your firing arc instead of out of it. quick jj turns into the lights circle will bring the light into your firing arc while taking you out of the lights arc. lights hate when you do this in a highlander with lbx10 and ssrms.

i almost for got about this enlightening video to help ppl to get the concept

Edited by loopala, 05 March 2014 - 11:11 PM.

[wintersborn]

For those of you that think a few streak boats can deal with a full Pre Made lance of twin AMS & 6 MLAS Embers you are very mistaken. 8 AMS will remove any missile threat and the focus fire of 24 MLAS Alpha's will take out anything that is stupid enough to get swarmed.

Even a 4 man of ECM mechs makes streak boats useless. Missiles, even Streaks have too many counters to fill the role of a true light killers.

The best thing I have seen are 2-3 Jags with 2 LBX-10's and 4 MG's each.

[Ismael]

Bulvar Jorgensson, on 26 February 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

I have noticed that Light mechs punch well above their weight class. This I know is due to the hit registration and all manner of other factors, however.........

Those firestarter mechs are making a complete mockery of the whole way PGI deliver on XP and C-bills.

This past 3 nights I have dropped, Light mechs make up the highest Damage and kill ratio, with Embers grabbing top spot.

Now I understand certain game mechanics have to be in place to allow for semi balanced (I was going to say balanced, then realised, that ain't ever gona happen.) game-play.

But come on.........

in fact the reason this post has gone up was the last drop i was in tonight, the opposition had 8 out of the 12 mechs being lights and the Roffel-stomped the team i was in which had 4 Assaults 5 heavies and 2 Mediums and 1 Light.

Guess I should really just buy some light mechs and join the Gravy train......

First: If you didnt play light, try it. It is funny and you will see it is not overpowered.
Second: It is funny to read, that people complaining in one thread about light mechs to be overpowered, and in other threads that the matchmaking is bad and they loose because of underweight and to many lights on their own side.

[IraqiWalker]

wintersborn, on 13 March 2014 - 11:08 PM, said:

For those of you that think a few streak boats can deal with a full Pre Made lance of twin AMS & 6 MLAS Embers you are very mistaken. 8 AMS will remove any missile threat and the focus fire of 24 MLAS Alpha's will take out anything that is stupid enough to get swarmed.

Even a 4 man of ECM mechs makes streak boats useless. Missiles, even Streaks have too many counters to fill the role of a true light killers.

The best thing I have seen are 2-3 Jags with 2 LBX-10's and 4 MG's each.

That's a very situational thing. Yes, a 4 man of 4 FS9-S is going to be tough to kill with streaks, however, streaks aren't the only weapon. That advice was for a solo player, one way to counter lights IS streaks.

Another is to stay with your team. If you wander off and get swarmed by lights, NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, will save you, you will die, and it's your own fault, not the light mechs being OP.

In addition your numbers are a bit off. Have you played those firestarters? Firing all 6 lasers in an alpha will put you well above 40% heat. Unless you use a small engine and pack lots of heat sinks, which makes you very slow and easily kill-able. They can't spam their alphas, not to mention that MLs are not a good focus fire weapon, simply because the beam lasts for way too long for the damage to be focused, instead of say SPLs.

Also, for the AMS systems to work together means that all 4 lights need to be within 120 meters of each other. Which again, reduces if not flat out cripples their advantage of speed and wolf packing, because they're all going in one direction together, and makes weapons like LB10X a real nightmare for them.

Yes, lights are difficult to deal with, if you don't know what to do. However, they are by no means as powerful as you make them seem to be. Boom Jagers are also quite effective against them. If you have a pilot that won't panic when a light starts spinning around them.

As for ECM lights, well, ECM only counters 2 weapons in the entire game, and ECM has way too many counters working against it as well. TAG, BAP, and ECCM. If your streak boat didn't have BAP in his mech, well, can you blame the lights for butchering him?

What we're trying to teach people here, is how to deal with light mechs. Which shows that a lot of people really need to play light mechs. That's the best way to learn how to counter them.

[Dawnstealer]

no one, on 26 February 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

If you haven't already then absolutely, buy a light 'Mech. They are, or can be, very fun. However, be prepared for them to not be the invincible atlas eaters you are expecting. A streak boat will ruin your day in a heartbeat. An invisible pebble will turn you from a 150 km/s bullet into the easiest, softest target on the field. Your legs will fall off of their own accord after you've run three laps around the map. Overheating will make your internal structure melt like butter left on Mercury.

Totally this. I primarily pilot Assaults, but I switch up to Lights (and am currently grinding my Firestarters...sorry if I killed you) because it teaches you some really important lessons about avoiding enemy fire and, most importantly, aiming.

Little guys don't have the heatsinks that big guys do, so you only get one or two of those 20+ damage strikes before your mech's red-lining. This means you either have to run around, avoid being killed, avoid shooting back, long enough to cool down to do it again; or you have to REALLY rein in your bloodlust.

You can't take a hit. Oh sure, if you're bouncing around like crazy and someone's using lasers, that damage will get spread all over the place. But if you bump into a guy with an AC20, Gauss, even a PPC or UAC5 and good aim, you'll go down real fast. Those legs, at full armor, have less than 40 points on them: every little bit counts because, while a Heavy, Assault, and even a Medium, can live without a leg, a Light is pretty much dead when its maneuverability is taken away.

That said, I was in a match last night where a spider overheated and then the player had video issues. Just standing there. I was 10m away, their CT was completely exposed and red. I hit them THREE TIMES with 4ML blasts (so 40 points of accurate damage) annnnnnd...nothing. It flashed the damage on the paper doll, but the Spider didn't go down.

I guess I'm saying "run Spiders" because they have some invulnerability shield in effect.

[wintersborn]

If you have a good Pre made running 4 of these FS9-S good luck to you with the whole LRM/Streak boat.

I have seen what they can do but I understand that you don't see this drop that often in pugs.

[CaptainDeez]

Dawnstealer, on 14 March 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

Totally this. I primarily pilot Assaults, but I switch up to Lights (and am currently grinding my Firestarters...sorry if I killed you) because it teaches you some really important lessons about avoiding enemy fire and, most importantly, aiming.

Little guys don't have the heatsinks that big guys do, so you only get one or two of those 20+ damage strikes before your mech's red-lining. This means you either have to run around, avoid being killed, avoid shooting back, long enough to cool down to do it again; or you have to REALLY rein in your bloodlust.

My fs9-H has 1.4+ cooling efficiency on it's two ERLLs. I can hit you with about 4-6 in a row depending on map, and I can plink you with one all day. :3 Toss 5 JJs on it and I'm good to snipe and climb mountains in my escape. I die last because I'm found last. My blood lust is free to frolic.


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...815fd359134d450

[loopala]

wintersborn, on 13 March 2014 - 11:08 PM, said:

For those of you that think a few streak boats can deal with a full Pre Made lance of twin AMS & 6 MLAS Embers you are very mistaken. 8 AMS will remove any missile threat and the focus fire of 24 MLAS Alpha's will take out anything that is stupid enough to get swarmed.

anytime you get a propose built premade the odds shift heavily against you. in those games you try to die well. once again all the more reason to stay close to the group.
there is no perfect 100% light killer out there. but the ones discussed here come close. at the moment the ssrm is effective against lights as is MGs and lbx and of course aiming and hitting the little buggers.

[Remarius]

wintersborn, on 14 March 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

If you have a good Pre made running 4 of these FS9-S good luck to you with the whole LRM/Streak boat.

I have seen what they can do but I understand that you don't see this drop that often in pugs.

And our 4 man heavy lance we were running earlier would wipe the floor with them as we don't rely on streaks and that build is slow so rather missing your point.....

Scissors, paper rock and all that....

Don't get me wrong I love the firestarter but any well organised lance following fire commands and with complimentary setups should win in sub 12 man play.

[CSHubert]

I think OP is saying that this happens:

Heavy meets light wolfpack, wolfpack wins.

Heavy meets light solo, light wins.

There is basically something wrong with this picture, because as I see it lights in wolfpack should win, but lights solo should be creamed in no time. But thats not happening. When I kill off lights Im running a YLW, Shadowhawk or even Hunchie. I can do that because the light is attenting my fellow heavies and realize to late that Im comming. Still Ive been chocked by catching an Ember overheating, a still target, taking more than a few ac20 shells to die. The point is this. It should not be that common that one light hunts heavies. Harrass, yes... But hunt, no !

[no one]

CSHubert, on 15 March 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Heavy meets light wolfpack, wolfpack wins.

Heavy meets light solo, light wins.

What's important though is -

Two lights meet two heavies; heavies win.

Why? Because orbiting, jinking and bouncing only really works if you've got an isolated target or tightly packed group at close range. If you're in a heavy, you can weather all the fire a light 'Mech can dish out long enough for a second heavy to take a step back, aim, and plaster the little sucker as it orbits toward them. You don't pick your own fleas. You let someone else do it for you while you pick theirs.

Edited by no one, 15 March 2014 - 02:48 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

no one, on 15 March 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

What's important though is -

Two lights meet two heavies; heavies win.

Why? Because orbiting, jinking and bouncing only really works if you've got an isolated target or tightly packed group at close range. If you're in a heavy, you can weather all the fire a light 'Mech can dish out long enough for a second heavy to take a step back, aim, and plaster the little sucker as it orbits toward them. You don't pick your own fleas. You let someone else do it for you while you pick theirs.

THAT, is a proper tactic when taking care of lights.

You always attack lights that are not paying attention to you or circling you, they are a much easier target.

On the other hand, if you are solo, and you don't use any tactic to take care of my mobility. I can kill you in a COM-2D with nothing but 1 ML.

CSHubert, on 15 March 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

It should not be that common that one light hunts heavies. Harrass, yes... But hunt, no !

If you have a light pilot with enough balls (or enough no brains), then you should see this happen. I have often charged and engaged bigger mechs than me. It surprises the hell out of the enemy team to see one light engage and attack an entire lance of heavies/assaults.

There is an actual shock factor sometimes when you see a small fast light just charge balls to the wall straight at you. Especially if you are dropping solo, and KNOW that no one can/ will support you. (Even if they do support you, if you are solo, you are rarely counting on your team covering you.)

wintersborn, on 14 March 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

If you have a good Pre made running 4 of these FS9-S good luck to you with the whole LRM/Streak boat.

I have seen what they can do but I understand that you don't see this drop that often in pugs.

That's a decent set up, but what you should fear, is this one. FS9-S 2xAMS

That set up can be more effective and faster.

[CSHubert]

no one, on 15 March 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

What's important though is -

Two lights meet two heavies; heavies win.

Why? Because orbiting, jinking and bouncing only really works if you've got an isolated target or tightly packed group at close range. If you're in a heavy, you can weather all the fire a light 'Mech can dish out long enough for a second heavy to take a step back, aim, and plaster the little sucker as it orbits toward them. You don't pick your own fleas. You let someone else do it for you while you pick theirs.

And here it comes... Playing PUGs, how often does one light find a lone heavy being ditched by hes lance because hes too slow ? I mean: You honestly demant the tactical sense to form groups and support each other?

[IraqiWalker]

CSHubert, on 15 March 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

how often does one light find a lone heavy being ditched by hes lance because hes too slow ?

Heavies, never. Assaults, more likely.

I have usually run into assaults (usually stalkers) alone, because their team just abandons them. My problem is that I still kill them, even though I am solo, not with a group. The sheer amount of experience I have allows me to do this. On the other hand, a new light player will probably get killed by that assault.

Also, I can usually tell if the enemy has a STD, or XL engine in them, which is another boon of playing this game for so long.

In a 1v1 situation, if the bigger mech doesn't neutralize the light mech's advantage of mobility, the light has a good shot of wrecking the bigger mech's face.

[ImperialKnight]

Embers are very powerful, if you know what you're doing. 4 MLas and 4 MGs are great for quickly legging mechs or destroying unarmored areas.

[IraqiWalker]

knightsljx, on 15 March 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Embers are very powerful, if you know what you're doing. 4 MLas and 4 MGs are great for quickly legging mechs or destroying unarmored areas.

They can work as a clean up mech with extreme success.

Since you're running a 4MG build, if you choose to play as a vulture, don't expect high damage numbers, but instead high kills. The improved crit on the MGs will make sure that you deal minimal damage for the kill.