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So Basicly, The Wolf Were The "smart Guy's"?


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#1 KuroNyra

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 01:42 PM

Hello guy's.
Since the clan's are coming. I am thinking about choosing an allegance to a clan when it will be possible.

I've read some articles about the clans. (Mechwarrior isn't wellknow in France. Never heard about it until Mechwarrior Online arrived.)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Wolf

Quote

Clan Wolf proved themselves expert warriors: they annihilated Clan Wolverine and absorbed Clan Widowmaker, long before their successes in the invasion of the Inner Sphere. They also created Elemental body armor, though it would take assistance from Clan Hell's Horses to perfect the Elemental phenotype and HarJel from the Diamond Sharks before Elemental suits reached their current form. They led the Warden Clans in the Grand Council and were the only Clan to oppose the Clan Invasion in 3050. Clan Wolf proposed sending a reconnaissance force to gather intelligence before the Invasion, a force that eventually became known as the Wolf's Dragoons, arguably the best mercenary unit in the Inner Sphere, and crucial in stopping the Clan's invasion.


That little part is interesting me. Was the Wolf's the only guy's thinking
<< hey, if we HAVE to invade them. Shouldn't we take a look before to see if the water isn't to hot? >>



Another thing that I like is that:

Quote

Society

Clan Wolf is also noted for their lack of formality (another thing that greatly annoys the Falcons :P). While they respect their traditions, they adapt to the situation, they make up their own mind, and don't rush in and think later - a trait that has proven valuable during their invasion of the Inner Sphere, where Clans found that technological edge and mastery of one on one combat is not always enough to guarantee a win.
The Clan Wolf emblem is a red wolf head on top of a red plaque, with six golden stars. The five stars symbolize the clans, and the sixth star symbolizes their founder, Kerensky



All of that make me thing that the Wolf look's like the smartest of the clan. Who don't just attack without adapting. And who are able to use there brain in order to win.
Correct?




(P.S: Duh I LOVE THE WOLF CLAN EMBLEM!)


So, am I correct or there is some little secret hidded?

#2 Gyrok

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:21 PM

There is no secret, Clan Wolf has always been one of the premier Clans, and Ulric Kerensky was arguably one of the greatest tactical and strategic minds the Clans ever had. He was consistently one move ahead of the rest of the group, until he did not expect the level of treachery that the green chickens (Jade Falcons) would stoop down to kill him in combat. That was the only real oversight in his plans, and it cost him the ultimate price.

(edited for clarity of intent)

Edited by Gyrok, 05 March 2014 - 03:25 PM.


#3 Poptimus Rhyme Wallace

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:24 PM

Well wolves are pretty much the apex predators of any region they inhabit, that and hey have a reputation for being cunning, so yeah, Clan Wolf can be perceived as smarter and better at adapting, though I admit to being biased being a Warrior of Clan Wolf myself...

#4 Craig Steele

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 03:27 PM

View PostKuroNyra, on 05 March 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

Hello guy's.
Since the clan's are coming. I am thinking about choosing an allegance to a clan when it will be possible.

I've read some articles about the clans. (Mechwarrior isn't wellknow in France. Never heard about it until Mechwarrior Online arrived.)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Wolf


That little part is interesting me. Was the Wolf's the only guy's thinking
<< hey, if we HAVE to invade them. Shouldn't we take a look before to see if the water isn't to hot? >>



Another thing that I like is that:



All of that make me thing that the Wolf look's like the smartest of the clan. Who don't just attack without adapting. And who are able to use there brain in order to win.
Correct?




(P.S: Duh I LOVE THE WOLF CLAN EMBLEM!)


So, am I correct or there is some little secret hidded?


Not really no. They're no "smarter" than any other Clan and all had a measure of success. For example, the strength of elemental armour designed by Clan Wolf was only unlocked when Clan Hells Horses designed Elemental Warrior genotypes (DNA). Until then it was an advancement of sorts, but not the package.

Clan Coyote designed Omni mechs, Diamond Shark Harjel, and so on and so on.

Clan Wolf proposed sending the Drogoon force for lots of reasons but it certainly because they were "thinking" about the Invasion, if anything it was because they wanted to stop it.

Clan Wolf is kind of the "hollywood good guy" of the Clans, he has a few emotional moments but he always gets the girl in the end and no one knows why, it's just the story we all love.

#5 CyclonerM

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 05:48 AM

"Here, with the Strana Mechty wolf,
we see what may be the epitome of a true warrior. Cunning matched with stealth, joined by a final terryfing attack. For this mighty creature, i name you. You are Clan Wolf."

Nicholas Kerensky, 2810

#6 Rouken

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 06:10 AM

Its a bit more complicated than that. Ulric's plan wasn't to send a recon team to scout the inner sphere it was to help prepare them for the invasion while sending information back to the clans that painted a picture of a strong inner sphere that would be difficult or impossible to invade.

If you read up on the warden and crusader political factions, and Ulric Kerensky's page on the wiki it becomes clear. Essential though crusaders want to invade the inner sphere and the wardens want to stop that invasion.

The Wolves fought just as hard (and smarter) against the inner sphere in the invasion but Ulric's goals were completely different from the other clans.

But yeah, Clan Wolf could easily fill the role of "the good guys" for the clans.

Edited by Rouken, 06 March 2014 - 06:21 AM.


#7 Geist Null

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 06:33 AM

if you like the symbol and clans in general, then go for it but like all clans, clan wolf changes with the timeline, so be sure to read the entire history on sarna. there are a lot of good leaders and bad decisions, faction splintering, and reformations in the history of each one.

Edited by Geist Null, 06 March 2014 - 06:34 AM.


#8 Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 07:13 AM

In short IN MY OPINION, Clan Wolf knew what it was doing and did a lot better in the Invasion because of it. Clan Wolf received the fewest casualties, captured the most planets, and then pretty much owned everyone else. The rest of the Crusaders were arrogant of the Inner Sphere's power and so they bid themselves to have low amounts of troops during their strikes. At first no world stood a chance but then as things progressed (and information on the clans became available) the Inner Sphere caught on and started gaining ground. Now the Clans dealt with this easily (well kind of easily), They had 11 other Clans at the ready, if they tried mobilizing them it could have changed the tides of the war, and then disposed of Zellbrigen, Honor, and trial stuff and that would easily ensure a good amount of victories and may have resulted in both sides calling stalemate after Tukayyid (or the Clans could have won Tukayyid and achieved their goal). But instead after the Crusaders started losing ground they literally took it out on Clan Wolf. When Tukayyid came they bidded their forces mind bogglingly low, and lost miserably.

Smoke Jaguar- Lost Alpha and Beta Galaxies to the Inner Sphere.

Jade Falcon- Lost Alpha Galaxy and 3/4 of Beta.

Diamond Shark- Repelled early in the Invasion and to my knowledge never took a world

Ghost Bears- Switched to become Wardens and then became an Inner Sphere/Clan Hybrid faction joining with the FRR.

Wolf- Wolf was best off. They lost least amount of troops, and took the most worlds, but when Ulric was assassinated they were taken by Vlad Ward which led to them splitting into 2 factions. Clan Wolf, and Clan Wolf in Exile. This meant that both Wolf factions had to rebuild to become what they were.

Nova Cats to my knowledge did not participate much in the Invasion. They took a few worlds (although they did make an attack on Luthien and failed just like SJ -who attacked Nova Cats afterwards because of the loss-).

All in all the Crusaders lost higher than any Warden: and in my opinion it was do to 2 facts-

They had a large ego which was used against them in their trials against the Inner Sphere and so they would bid forces low and get slaughtered.

And They were arrogant of the Inner Sphere's power.

Clan Wolf was not arrogant of the Inner Sphere as they listened to the Dragoons intensely and because of that were the best off.

This is all my opinion so feel free to dismiss it (also if I have any Lore errors let me know).

#9 Craig Steele

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:24 AM

View PostRouken, on 06 March 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

Its a bit more complicated than that. Ulric's plan wasn't to send a recon team to scout the inner sphere it was to help prepare them for the invasion while sending information back to the clans that painted a picture of a strong inner sphere that would be difficult or impossible to invade.

If you read up on the warden and crusader political factions, and Ulric Kerensky's page on the wiki it becomes clear. Essential though crusaders want to invade the inner sphere and the wardens want to stop that invasion.

The Wolves fought just as hard (and smarter) against the inner sphere in the invasion but Ulric's goals were completely different from the other clans.

But yeah, Clan Wolf could easily fill the role of "the good guys" for the clans.


Yes ofc it was more complicated, I could go on for hours :P

It wasn't Ulrics plan, it was Kerlins. But lets start at the beginning.

Many people think the Wardens desire is to protect the Inner Sphere from the Crusaders but this is simply untrue. All Clans (Warden and Crusader) believed it is their destiny to return the the inner sphere and restore the Star League, these are the words of Nicholas Kerensky.

Where they differ is the timing of the return.

The Wardens believe that the return should be when they are needed, some outside threat to humanity imperils the Inner Sphere for example. The Clans only purpose until then is to be the best warriors the galaxy has ever seen and be strong enough for any challenge. When they are required, they return and the Inner Sphere will (insert each Warden Clans definition here) and recognise them as the Il Clan, giving them authority over Terra / Hemogany.

Clan Steel Viper (long time Warden) is the one example of the Warden view which to them was "not to subjugate.......but to teach it's people better ways. Clan warriors would retake the Inner Sphere and form it's ruling class" pg 135 Warden Clans Field Manual. So we can see here this Warden Clan envisioned to conquer through military muscle "retake" the inner sphere, eliminate all nobility / democracy and install their Trueborn Warriors as Kings / Dukes etc "Clan Warriors ..... form its ruling class" to educate the masses "teach it's people" on Kerensky's vision, when they were called upon. This is virtually the Smoke Jaguar view of things except Smoke Jaguar was Crusader. Invading Clans Source book pg 51 reads "... to conquer every world inhabited by the evil descendants of the five Great houses (read ruling classes, Davion, Liao, Steiner, Kurita, Marik) so that true humanity - represented by the Clans (read Smoke Jaguar Trueborns, they despised freebirths in every way)... might live on in the worlds they desrve. This is basically the same Steel Viper view that after conquering the Great Houses, Clan Trueborns will rule in the place of IS rulers

The Crusaders believe that they must return soon and reinvent the Star League so that humanity can be defended before any threat develops. Like the Wardens they also have different views on how it will work (Jade Falcon is pure might is right conquest)

Each Clan has it's own slight mannersim on the interpretation, but Warden vs Crusader was largely an argument about the timing of the return, not the return itself.

Wolf Clan was a key Warden and in the late 2900's started to realise that popular opinion was moving to the Crusader camp. Life was hard in Clan space with low living standards and limited resources. The Inner Sphere became something of a Nirvana for the average clanner, a place where they could all have a better life. A lot of this was propaganda and politicing. The Wardens believed this was a fad, something that would pass and so they developed the Wolf Dragoons as a ploy to primarily, gain time for the current fad to pass.

The idea of Clan Wolf using 'spies' for recon work is competely against their culture. And the fact is Clan Wolf sought out help from Clan Goliath Scorpian to train the Dragoons as exactly that, spies. The 7th Kommando is the ultimate expression of that but all Dragoons got a taste of it.

As far as Clans go, they only need current tactical recon for the battle about to occur and strategic recon was something only a small number of Clans valued (Snow Raven and Diamond Shark being the two majors) Certainly strategic recon is not something Clan Wolf has been a user of in canon in any case so for them to recommend this option was a big step away from Clan Wolf values. It did serve some other minor purposes but the Dragoons was primarily (according to canon) a delaying tactic for the Crusader movement to die down.

But it didn't die down and in 3048 when the Outbound Light stumbled across Huntress (Smoke Jaguar Homeworld) things came to a head. The Crusdaers argued (basically, some generalisation here) that the jig was up, that the IS had found them and could come rolling in at any time to invade Clan space. This would be a disaster as it meant damage to factories and miliatry ability to all Clans that could not be used in the execution of their primary goal, to protect the inner sphere. Better the Crusaders argued that if they must fight IS forces, they do so on their ground. Sixteen of the Seventeen Clans agreed with this and voted for the Invasion of the IS. This number is important, as I will show in a moment.

Wolf Clan (now led by Ulric Kerensky) was the sole dissenter and issued a challenge which it lost. In Clan culture, this meant that not only was the Grand Council united on the subject, but it had been tested and proven in combat as well. Invasion of the Inner Sphere and the conquest of Terra was the Grand Councils order and all Clans were bound to this, whether by consent or by defeat. There is no basis in Clan Culture for this to be debated anymore, every true Clansman should culturally be accepting of the righteousness of the Invasion.

It's important to note here that the Grand Council is the final authority of all things Clan.

An Il Khan was elected (Leo Showers of Smoke Jaguar) and his task appointed by the Grand Council was to facilitate the proper conduct of the multi Clan force in the field (a General of Generals if you will) to achieve the Grand Councils desire, the conquest of Terra.

And this is where things get funky and confusing. Ulric basically comes out and says to select fellow Wolves that no matter what the Grand Council says or what the field of battle outcome was, we are going to save the Inner Sphere from the Crusaders. This is basically an act of betrayal against all the Clans (remember the unamious vote and lost trial), Ulric says nuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh. Before now no Clan wanted to 'save' the Inner Sphere form the Clans, all of them believed in Nicholas's word that return and dominance in military matters at least was a foregone conclusion. The only challenge was which Clan would be the Il Clan.

Later Leo dies and the Grand Council not realising the depths of Ulric's betrayal, elect him Il Khan (for a lot of reasons but primarily political) and give him the same task as Leo had, prosecute the war and take Terra, but Ulric has no intention of doing so. It is now that his betrayal extends even to his own Clan and he endorses and enables new Khans sympathetic to his cause, Natasha and Phelan who both have strong affection for the Inner Sphere. They earn their ranks through combat and that's all legit, but they were sponsored by Ulric as he knew he could rely upon them to take the Clan Wolf further away from the Clans. Crusader warriors are refused promotions or testing's, Wardens are sponsored. It's a job's for the boys mentality with Ulric pulling the strings.

There is even an example where in one of Nicholas Kerensky's favoured units (328th Assault Cluster) that a Ghost Bear isorla warden is transferred in as a Star Colonel just before the invasion, no Wolf warrior was allowed to even test for the position. That's not to say the GB guy was incompetent (he wasn't) but it is just one example of how far Ulric pushed to ensure the chain of command owed Ulric personally.

As Clan Wolf was the leading Warden Clan, many take up on it's changing stance as what the Warden view was all about. But the Ghost Bears, the Nova Cats and Snow Ravens are all examples of Warden Clans closer to the heart of the Warden movement. Each of those found paths to the Inner Sphere where they believed they would be stronger due to more resources, more populations etc and be ready for the time that humanity needs them. They don't shy away from a fight, but they are not spoiling for fights with other Clans (bar the normal sparring). They conserve their strength and wait for the call.

In many ways, Clan Wolf is about as far from Clan as you can be from 3048 through to 3058. The have omni mechs and elementals and thats about their only claim to Clan likeness. They lost on the field of battle twice when their claim was tested (Invasion Grievance trial and the Refusal war) but still don't accept might is right unless they win.

Although give him his credit, post 3058 Vlad is trying hard to bring Clan Wolf back as a powerhouse of Clan space with some success.

#10 KuroNyra

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:18 AM

I see, interesting.

Very interesting.
Eyuup, they definitly sound good to me.

(And beside, the wolf is one of my favorite animal so... :3 )

I think I'll join the Wolf clan when the time will come.

#11 Gyrok

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 12:51 PM

Consider the Delta Galaxy of the Wolf Clan: http://www.cwdg.us

#12 CyclonerM

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 01:19 PM

To be fair, consider also the Alpha Galaxy of Clan Wolf.

#13 Uncle Totty

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 08:55 PM

View PostCraig Steele, on 06 March 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:


Yes ofc it was more complicated, I could go on for hours ;)

It wasn't Ulrics plan, it was Kerlins. But lets start at the beginning.

Many people think the Wardens desire is to protect the Inner Sphere from the Crusaders but this is simply untrue. All Clans (Warden and Crusader) believed it is their destiny to return the the inner sphere and restore the Star League, these are the words of Nicholas Kerensky.

Where they differ is the timing of the return.

The Wardens believe that the return should be when they are needed, some outside threat to humanity imperils the Inner Sphere for example. The Clans only purpose until then is to be the best warriors the galaxy has ever seen and be strong enough for any challenge. When they are required, they return and the Inner Sphere will (insert each Warden Clans definition here) and recognise them as the Il Clan, giving them authority over Terra / Hemogany.

Clan Steel Viper (long time Warden) is the one example of the Warden view which to them was "not to subjugate.......but to teach it's people better ways. Clan warriors would retake the Inner Sphere and form it's ruling class" pg 135 Warden Clans Field Manual. So we can see here this Warden Clan envisioned to conquer through military muscle "retake" the inner sphere, eliminate all nobility / democracy and install their Trueborn Warriors as Kings / Dukes etc "Clan Warriors ..... form its ruling class" to educate the masses "teach it's people" on Kerensky's vision, when they were called upon. This is virtually the Smoke Jaguar view of things except Smoke Jaguar was Crusader. Invading Clans Source book pg 51 reads "... to conquer every world inhabited by the evil descendants of the five Great houses (read ruling classes, Davion, Liao, Steiner, Kurita, Marik) so that true humanity - represented by the Clans (read Smoke Jaguar Trueborns, they despised freebirths in every way)... might live on in the worlds they desrve. This is basically the same Steel Viper view that after conquering the Great Houses, Clan Trueborns will rule in the place of IS rulers

The Crusaders believe that they must return soon and reinvent the Star League so that humanity can be defended before any threat develops. Like the Wardens they also have different views on how it will work (Jade Falcon is pure might is right conquest)

Each Clan has it's own slight mannersim on the interpretation, but Warden vs Crusader was largely an argument about the timing of the return, not the return itself.

Wolf Clan was a key Warden and in the late 2900's started to realise that popular opinion was moving to the Crusader camp. Life was hard in Clan space with low living standards and limited resources. The Inner Sphere became something of a Nirvana for the average clanner, a place where they could all have a better life. A lot of this was propaganda and politicing. The Wardens believed this was a fad, something that would pass and so they developed the Wolf Dragoons as a ploy to primarily, gain time for the current fad to pass.

The idea of Clan Wolf using 'spies' for recon work is competely against their culture. And the fact is Clan Wolf sought out help from Clan Goliath Scorpian to train the Dragoons as exactly that, spies. The 7th Kommando is the ultimate expression of that but all Dragoons got a taste of it.

As far as Clans go, they only need current tactical recon for the battle about to occur and strategic recon was something only a small number of Clans valued (Snow Raven and Diamond Shark being the two majors) Certainly strategic recon is not something Clan Wolf has been a user of in canon in any case so for them to recommend this option was a big step away from Clan Wolf values. It did serve some other minor purposes but the Dragoons was primarily (according to canon) a delaying tactic for the Crusader movement to die down.

But it didn't die down and in 3048 when the Outbound Light stumbled across Huntress (Smoke Jaguar Homeworld) things came to a head. The Crusdaers argued (basically, some generalisation here) that the jig was up, that the IS had found them and could come rolling in at any time to invade Clan space. This would be a disaster as it meant damage to factories and miliatry ability to all Clans that could not be used in the execution of their primary goal, to protect the inner sphere. Better the Crusaders argued that if they must fight IS forces, they do so on their ground. Sixteen of the Seventeen Clans agreed with this and voted for the Invasion of the IS. This number is important, as I will show in a moment.

Wolf Clan (now led by Ulric Kerensky) was the sole dissenter and issued a challenge which it lost. In Clan culture, this meant that not only was the Grand Council united on the subject, but it had been tested and proven in combat as well. Invasion of the Inner Sphere and the conquest of Terra was the Grand Councils order and all Clans were bound to this, whether by consent or by defeat. There is no basis in Clan Culture for this to be debated anymore, every true Clansman should culturally be accepting of the righteousness of the Invasion.

It's important to note here that the Grand Council is the final authority of all things Clan.

An Il Khan was elected (Leo Showers of Smoke Jaguar) and his task appointed by the Grand Council was to facilitate the proper conduct of the multi Clan force in the field (a General of Generals if you will) to achieve the Grand Councils desire, the conquest of Terra.

And this is where things get funky and confusing. Ulric basically comes out and says to select fellow Wolves that no matter what the Grand Council says or what the field of battle outcome was, we are going to save the Inner Sphere from the Crusaders. This is basically an act of betrayal against all the Clans (remember the unamious vote and lost trial), Ulric says nuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh. Before now no Clan wanted to 'save' the Inner Sphere form the Clans, all of them believed in Nicholas's word that return and dominance in military matters at least was a foregone conclusion. The only challenge was which Clan would be the Il Clan.

Later Leo dies and the Grand Council not realising the depths of Ulric's betrayal, elect him Il Khan (for a lot of reasons but primarily political) and give him the same task as Leo had, prosecute the war and take Terra, but Ulric has no intention of doing so. It is now that his betrayal extends even to his own Clan and he endorses and enables new Khans sympathetic to his cause, Natasha and Phelan who both have strong affection for the Inner Sphere. They earn their ranks through combat and that's all legit, but they were sponsored by Ulric as he knew he could rely upon them to take the Clan Wolf further away from the Clans. Crusader warriors are refused promotions or testing's, Wardens are sponsored. It's a job's for the boys mentality with Ulric pulling the strings.

There is even an example where in one of Nicholas Kerensky's favoured units (328th Assault Cluster) that a Ghost Bear isorla warden is transferred in as a Star Colonel just before the invasion, no Wolf warrior was allowed to even test for the position. That's not to say the GB guy was incompetent (he wasn't) but it is just one example of how far Ulric pushed to ensure the chain of command owed Ulric personally.

As Clan Wolf was the leading Warden Clan, many take up on it's changing stance as what the Warden view was all about. But the Ghost Bears, the Nova Cats and Snow Ravens are all examples of Warden Clans closer to the heart of the Warden movement. Each of those found paths to the Inner Sphere where they believed they would be stronger due to more resources, more populations etc and be ready for the time that humanity needs them. They don't shy away from a fight, but they are not spoiling for fights with other Clans (bar the normal sparring). They conserve their strength and wait for the call.

In many ways, Clan Wolf is about as far from Clan as you can be from 3048 through to 3058. The have omni mechs and elementals and thats about their only claim to Clan likeness. They lost on the field of battle twice when their claim was tested (Invasion Grievance trial and the Refusal war) but still don't accept might is right unless they win.

Although give him his credit, post 3058 Vlad is trying hard to bring Clan Wolf back as a powerhouse of Clan space with some success.

Well, lets get this started:

1. It was a Trial of Refusal to the Invasion, not a Trial of Grievance.

2. In this trial, the Wolfs killed more warriors than they have lost. If they were Jade Falcon, you would be calling it a tie. (I know they would.)

3. The War of Refusal has nothing to do with showing the other Clans that the Warden way is right. Why do you keep bringing it up that it does?

4. There is more to being a Clan than just omni mechs and Elementals.

#14 Craig Steele

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 09:53 PM

View PostNathan K, on 06 March 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

Well, lets get this started:

1. It was a Trial of Refusal to the Invasion, not a Trial of Grievance.

2. In this trial, the Wolfs killed more warriors than they have lost. If they were Jade Falcon, you would be calling it a tie. (I know they would.)

3. The War of Refusal has nothing to do with showing the other Clans that the Warden way is right. Why do you keep bringing it up that it does?

4. There is more to being a Clan than just omni mechs and Elementals.


1. Yes, you are correct, my apologies it most certainly was a Trial of Refusal. IDK why I said Greivance.

2. What's your source for this claim that Wolf Clan killed more warriors than they lost. All my sources say "narrow defeat". It's a mute point because they still lost and hence under the "might is right" credos of the Clans, Wolf failed to carry their view. But I would still be interested to know.

3. Ummm, it has eveything to do with the Warden / Crusader competition. Clan Wolf was still recognised as the leading Clan of the Warden view, and Jade Falcon was the accepted leader of the Crusader cause. Ulric's whole 'strategy' of defeating the Crusader movement was to cripple the Jade Falcons military knowing that they would still have politicial strength but would be unwilling to allow their allied Crusaders to advance further without the Falcons. This was why Ulric chose to escalate an internal Wolf Clan matter to the Grand Council so as to bring the Jade Falcons into the fight. Had he not it would have been Wolf Crusaders vs Wolf Wardens, basically a civil war.

Had Clan Wolf won the Refusal War, then the minority Warden view would have been proven in the field. Or more accurately, that the view espoused by the Jade Falcons was weak. Might is Right. All the Clans would have had to re assess what had been established by Clan Wolf, that the Warden view had a place and the Crusader view was weak. Ulric knew this, so did the Falcons. Both sides saw the Refusal War as an opportunity to put to bed (again if you're a Crusader) the strength of their belief. It's also one of the key reasons why this time the Trial become an Absorbtion, because Clan Wolf had shown itself unwilling to accept the Councils will and were therefore unfit to be part of the Clans.

The important point is that never until Ulric twisted it was the Warden cause about defending the IS against the Clans. At no time did Nicolas articulate that the Clans would be fighting each other to defend the Inner Sphere, his words were for all the Clans to unite in this task (although again, each Clan took a little angle on his words according to their view and developments)

4. Absolutely, thats my point. That between 3048 and 3058 Clan Wolf never acted as a Clan, in fact they acted un Clan like. They disavowed any Trial that they lost and only subscribed to the "might is right" principal if they won. The activily went out of their way to circumvent the unanimous will of the Clans (Wolverine got annihilated for less than what Wolf did). The only battles they won were against Inner Sphere Barbarians, and mainly against the weakest of the armies in the Clans Invasion corridor (FRR). Heck they even fled the field in the Refusal war, Phelan was ordered to run away.

Some Wolf fan boys point to Wolf's superiority because they took Gunzburg with only a single warrior, Phelan, and he didn't fire a shot. It's laughable because basically the only weapon Pheln used was his tongue, a weapon abhored by Clan culture as one for the weakest warrior. Wolverine & Mongoose were both destroyed because they over used diplomacy in a culture were combat is the standard by which a warrior is judged.

So we have Clan Wolf who in summary, losses to other Clan's in trials but refuses to accept their loss with honour. Celebrates diplomacy over combat. Betrays it's own people and it's chain of command. Initiates a "jobs for the boys' mentality instead of the Clan culture of 'best man for the job proven in trial'. Has success in the field primarily against the weakest of Inner Sphere militaries.

All of this is canon, it's not disputable. I just put it together under one light without the excuses and it reads as a very very weak Clan if it could even be called a Clan.

But Vlad does a great job, he is trying hard to restore Clan Wolf.

#15 CyclonerM

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:05 AM

View PostCraig Steele, on 06 March 2014 - 09:53 PM, said:


Some Wolf fan boys point to Wolf's superiority because they took Gunzburg with only a single warrior, Phelan, and he didn't fire a shot. It's laughable because basically the only weapon Pheln used was his tongue, a weapon abhored by Clan culture as one for the weakest warrior. Wolverine & Mongoose were both destroyed because they over used diplomacy in a culture were combat is the standard by which a warrior is judged.



Funny, i thought the most honorable victory was that achieved with the least amount of force employed. In fact, Star Colonel Marcus was wordless when Natasha Kerensky bid only one warrior to take that world. I always gt a good laugh reading his reaction :lol:

Edited by CyclonerM, 07 March 2014 - 06:05 AM.


#16 Craig Steele

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:10 AM

Wordless at the bid sure, he was probably shocked :lol:

But Clan Culture has always valued combat over diplomacy.

Had Phelan killed the guy one on one and secured the world that way it would be "Clan", even if it was just a circle of equals and the guy surrendered after being pinned you could live with, a physical contest had taken place. But to talk his way through it is not a strategy valued in Clan culture.

Diplomacy has a place sure, Nicholas knew this and allowed for it in his vision of the Clans structure (ie, the Grand Council majority process) but diplomacy is generally reviled by Clan warriors as a tool of the weak.

#17 Uncle Totty

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 07:56 AM

View PostCraig Steele, on 06 March 2014 - 09:53 PM, said:


1. Yes, you are correct, my apologies it most certainly was a Trial of Refusal. IDK why I said Greivance.

2. What's your source for this claim that Wolf Clan killed more warriors than they lost. All my sources say "narrow defeat". It's a mute point because they still lost and hence under the "might is right" credos of the Clans, Wolf failed to carry their view. But I would still be interested to know.

3. Ummm, it has eveything to do with the Warden / Crusader competition. Clan Wolf was still recognised as the leading Clan of the Warden view, and Jade Falcon was the accepted leader of the Crusader cause. Ulric's whole 'strategy' of defeating the Crusader movement was to cripple the Jade Falcons military knowing that they would still have politicial strength but would be unwilling to allow their allied Crusaders to advance further without the Falcons. This was why Ulric chose to escalate an internal Wolf Clan matter to the Grand Council so as to bring the Jade Falcons into the fight. Had he not it would have been Wolf Crusaders vs Wolf Wardens, basically a civil war.

Had Clan Wolf won the Refusal War, then the minority Warden view would have been proven in the field. Or more accurately, that the view espoused by the Jade Falcons was weak. Might is Right. All the Clans would have had to re assess what had been established by Clan Wolf, that the Warden view had a place and the Crusader view was weak. Ulric knew this, so did the Falcons. Both sides saw the Refusal War as an opportunity to put to bed (again if you're a Crusader) the strength of their belief. It's also one of the key reasons why this time the Trial become an Absorbtion, because Clan Wolf had shown itself unwilling to accept the Councils will and were therefore unfit to be part of the Clans.

The important point is that never until Ulric twisted it was the Warden cause about defending the IS against the Clans. At no time did Nicolas articulate that the Clans would be fighting each other to defend the Inner Sphere, his words were for all the Clans to unite in this task (although again, each Clan took a little angle on his words according to their view and developments)

4. Absolutely, thats my point. That between 3048 and 3058 Clan Wolf never acted as a Clan, in fact they acted un Clan like. They disavowed any Trial that they lost and only subscribed to the "might is right" principal if they won. The activily went out of their way to circumvent the unanimous will of the Clans (Wolverine got annihilated for less than what Wolf did). The only battles they won were against Inner Sphere Barbarians, and mainly against the weakest of the armies in the Clans Invasion corridor (FRR). Heck they even fled the field in the Refusal war, Phelan was ordered to run away.

2. "Clan Wolf was the only dissenter and immediately called a Trial of Refusal. Although the vote was astonishingly one sided at sixteen to one, pre-battle bidding reduced the odds against the Wolves to a 'mere' four to one. The Wardens fought like fanatics, taking many more Crusaders down than they lost, but in the end were unable to beat the odds; the way was now open for the invasion of the Inner Sphere." Sarna.net, Refusal War. *passes the salt*

"Wolf Khan Ulric Kerensky, an ardent Warden, protested mightily against the upcoming invasion. He was dismayed somewhat when even the Wolf's closest allies went along with the plan. He declared a Trial of Refusal and skillfully negotiated the odds down to four to one. The Wolf forces proved again their formidable prowess, particularly the Third Battle Cluster, but victory was snatched from their grasp by virtue of sheer numbers." WarrhawkPPC, Clan Wolf history (She is mostly Falcon so... *takes salt back*)

3. It was mostly to show the IS "we are not your enemy" than the Crusaders "we are right". It does not matter if they of won, the Wardens would still be under Crusader harassment.

4. How does being "nu Clan like" show that they are not smart? If anything it shows that they are the smartest.

Edited by Nathan K, 07 March 2014 - 08:06 AM.


#18 KuroNyra

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:37 AM

View PostGyrok, on 06 March 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Consider the Delta Galaxy of the Wolf Clan: http://www.cwdg.us

View PostCyclonerM, on 06 March 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

To be fair, consider also the Alpha Galaxy of Clan Wolf.


I don't want to disapoint you. But I have multiple problem who make me unable to join "real" clan's like yours.
First:
I'm a French guy. It brings multiple problem:

- Horrible French accent that will destroy your head.
- People say that I have a "good" english. But when it comes to speak it... No, definitly no.

_________________________

Since I work, I have very restricted times to play, beside. I'm not on the American continent, so with the different hours...


And about my very first question. It was more about the little roleplya I'll try to do with the mech. Like for example using Clan Wolf paintshem on my mech's.
And keep the "stock" configuration.

#19 CyclonerM

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 01:27 PM

View PostKuroNyra, on 07 March 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:


I don't want to disapoint you. But I have multiple problem who make me unable to join "real" clan's like yours.
First:
I'm a French guy. It brings multiple problem:

- Horrible French accent that will destroy your head.
- People say that I have a "good" english. But when it comes to speak it... No, definitly no.

_________________________

Since I work, I have very restricted times to play, beside. I'm not on the American continent, so with the different hours...




-If they have survived my italian accent they will survivive yours :blink:
-It is true, i can write walls of text to argue about something or try to convince someone but when it comes to speak sometimes i let slip some errors :o

The majority of our warriors are in the USA but we have a number of players from England, EU in general and other countries. You may find at least a lance to drop with :P My advice is to try. Come in TS and play with us. Maybe your issues are not that bad after all!

#20 Gyrok

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 01:37 PM

We already have a frenchman among us, and he manages... as do we

:P





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