26 replies to this topic

[Kalimaster]

Mech Customization Proposal
As various Mechs are upgraded, a few spaces or equipment slots, including various Hardpoints for weapons go unused, or are striped out by players as they customize their individual Mechs. For the most part, these slots and Hardpoints continue to go unused by the player though out the game. Most often the player has “maxed” out his or her Mech within the parameters set by the weight limits of a given Mech. In this proposal, some of these spaces or Hardpoints can be capitalized upon for other uses. During the game I have noticed that Mechs lack any form of flood light, or means of illumination. In this proposal I would like to add one item to the list of items intended for Mechs. A Flood Lamp, or should I say, headlights for Mechs. This playable feature would allow a player to illuminate an area for his or her Mech, improving night time visibility of the surrounding terrain. The ultimate goal however is to present additional customization of a Mech making it a more desirable means of game play. Each Flood Lamp would require a Hardpoint otherwise occupied by a ballistic or energy based weapon,
and a free slot. Flood Lamps do not carry a weight factor as part of the build and offer no additional points for a Mechs overall health or Hit Point totals. However since they do occupy a Mechs internal equipment slot, they can be destroyed by enemy weapons fire. The appearance of most “Energy Hardpoints” would go unchanged, unless the light is put to use, in which case the point of projection would appear as a spot of light projecting from the Mech. “Ballistic Hardpoints” would show a lens when the light is not in use.

To activate a Mech’s lights, a player would press “L” on his or her computers keyboard as a default setting,turning the lights On or Off. These could potentially be useful for “night maps”, or areas where some form of illumination would be desirable. However, the presence of these lights could potentially draw weapons fire from other players, making the use of said item somewhat risky. The use of a Flood Lamp could even potentially be used to disrupt night vision devices if a Mech is using a Flood Lamp illuminates the front of a Mech using Nightvision (provided that the two opposing Mechs are within 25 meters or less of each other).

Flood Lamp
Slots: 1
Hardpoints: Ballistic or Energy
Weight: None
Hit Points: 0
Cost: 25,000 C-Bills Each
Effect: Illuminates an area up to 50 meters in front of an equipped Mech.

While the Flood Lamp does not possess weight as far a Mechs overall loadout is concerned, these items do require both a Hardpoint and an empty slot, limiting placement of the position of the light, as well as taking away a potential weapons slot even if that slot is unused. On the positive side, it offers players a new avenue for Mech Customization. As a further restriction, Flood Lamps cannot be equipped upon “Missile Hardpoints”.

Sample of Use in Play: Player X has just equipped a Raven with a Flood Lamp, replacing either a laser or a machine gun. While the overall potential firepower of the Raven is reduced, and while the presence of said light is useless on daylight missions or matches, Player X intends to use it to help navigate a difficult area on a “night map”. In play, Player X manages to use the light to maneuver though a section of tunnel that has often confused him before. In another game Player X is pleased with the use of the light as he navigates some rough terrain, unwittingly attracting the attention of an Atlas.

[Timuroslav]

Some of these Flood lights have a Range past 500 Meters on Tanks. 25 Meters does not make sense when the Average Mech engagement is right around the 200-500 Meter Range. Though I like the idea of Blinding Night Vision. There needs to be a Risk-Reward for using them. Also the ability to destroy them is also nice. Most mechs come with Flood Lights equipped but that is not always the case.

[oldradagast]

It is a straightforward and useful idea and already double-edged.

On the plus side, you'd get some light, which is nice if you hate alternate vision modes.

On the minus side, you're a big target once that floodlight is one. Real-world reference: WW 2, naval battle at Guadacanal, first engagement at night - the key point relevant to this thread is that the Japanese battleship Hiei turned on large floodlights to illuminate the battlefield and make targeting easier for their side. While the American's got the worst of that first battle, they pounded the Hiei to near-scrap, resulting in her sinking / scuttling the next day... why? It was a confused night battle, but even in those conditions, targeting the big enemy ship with the blazing searchlights was a relatively straightforward decision.

http://en.wikipedia...._of_Guadalcanal

So, long story short - flood lights make it easy to see you, and easy for everyone else to see you...

[Alex Warden]

nah thanks, what for? to show everybody "hey over here! shoot ME pls, shoot me shoot shoot me"? ... i honestly (really honest) can´t see any use for it.... HV and NV do their jobs well enough, and up to 24 additional dynamic light sources would probably impact performance alot (plus, well done headlights/flashlights are not achieved as easy as you might think,i can imagine them to cause more trouble than they´d solve... )

Edited by Alex Warden, 11 March 2014 - 10:40 PM.

[Timuroslav]

Fair Enough, Alex Warden.

The floodlights would have to have Greater Range than their Night vision Counterparts, but bright enough that everyone can see the lights on the mech. To Negate them beinga Giant Target they would definitely need blinding effects to go with them.

[Alex Warden]

Timuroslav, on 12 March 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Fair Enough, Alex Warden.

The floodlights would have to have Greater Range than their Night vision Counterparts, but bright enough that everyone can see the lights on the mech. To Negate them beinga Giant Target they would definitely need blinding effects to go with them.

no offense, but in my book we already have more than enough blurring, blinding, smoke and what not which blind your sight... some of which are too much already, imho

i know in therory headlight are a "cool feature", but i can see too many downsides for a fun implementation

[TehSBGX]

I'd prefer floodlights are just there automatically and don't take up and crits or weight since it seems more like a universal feature.

[Kalimaster]

Okay, I can see your point on the range factor. Perhaps extend the range of the lights to say around 100 to 150 meters instead of the 50. And thank you for the historical post.

Yes there are downsides to this feature such as making yourself a target. However on River City Night, and perhaps some future maps, having a bit of light when you need it would help. I'm not saying this option is for everyone, but that is what Mech customization is all about.

[TurkeyMcCoolRay]

I would greatly enjoy a light of any sort for some of those night maps, instead of just constantly using night vision.

[Triordinant]

How about IR floodlights that make 'mechs in its "cone" show up on thermal even though they're outside normal thermal range? You could only see the light if you're using thermal yourself, but it would be the brightest thing in the thermal spectrum. The floodlight on the Warhammer looks like it could be one.

[fandre]

I suggest to make a 1t or 0.5t floodlight, which takes no crit space. At night you can blind enemys with nightvision up to 400m. At night and day, you can always blind an enenmy under 20m regardless of night vision or normal vision (thermal is still useable).

[Kalimaster]

I must admit, I like the idea of the IR and the heavier floodlight, all together it would give us three variants to pick from, giving players a good choice to choose from. Thank you very much for these ideas.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Keep in mind that these machines don't really have glass windows. The material is stated as a transparent armour, but the pilots are actually looking through their nuro-helmet optics. (something that we are not seeing within the game)

- having the ability to temp blind any viewer using a low light or night vision system is rather absurd for a modern military piece of equipment.
- all low light/night vision systems the military uses on combat vehicles have "instant" shutters that are designed to protect the optics. (even firing tanks using thermal sights "blink" during the actual fire sequence.)
- Older versions of head mounted NVG (night vision goggles) did have a "saturated mode" that would shut them down and temp night blind the wearer, newer units don't do that. (all I'm saying)
- The two systems we have on the Mech's now, night and thermal vision modes are seen through the helmet optics and not the pilots eyes. These systems gather there "vision" through the Mech's sensors, not the "windows".

Now with all that, I still like the "mounted light" idea, but it must be angled down and close to the Mech's legs and feet. This would be used for navigating in buildings, tunnels and Mech facilities. Similar to clearance lights and warning beacons.

- The lights are for navigation only, and the Mech needs to slow down so as to not "Outrun" the light beam.
(doing 100kph they will not help you, if you max speed is only 50kph you may be ok)

- From Lore, the Mech uses it sensors to actually navigate in the direction the pilot directs it to move. So it knows what is near its legs/feet, ground lights would be mostly for everyone around the Mech to know where it's moving under low light conditions. As the pilot normally can't even see the Mech's feet/legs. And why the light needs to extend forward somewhat.

Story line wise these lights can be used for navigation around cities at night that are in a "brown out" or no power state. As we see in the current game the Mech's tend to "knock down" most of the light posts anyways. (or will soon as terrain collision is currently being worked on.) In the advanced mode the "Terrain driving lights" can be directed left and right as the Mech moves in those directions, like steering into the turn. (radical idea, link these to "Track-IR", or a "Hat switch" on a joystick. I know crazy right!)

Just as a note: MW:LL does have lights like the OP is referring to and controlled using the "L" key. They are for low light areas, are pointed down, they extend out about 100mtrs, and are quite useful in tunnels and locating openings in the ground or walls. (that are difficult to see in Fauna rich environments, like jungle or woods. - overgrown and partially hidden)

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 25 March 2014 - 04:43 AM.

[Kalimaster]

The main purpose behind the lights I originally thought of using are for navigation of difficult areas, hence the range of 50 meters. However I also admit that the greater range would also be useful.
These lights would be angled as the same angle as the weapons original line up, centered at the targeting bracket.

Transparent armor or not, when I am playing Mechwarrior Online, I see a view of the cockpit, plus Hud, and the outside through a glass effect, or windows, and that is what I'm going by. The L key on the computer is to allow the user to turn on or off external lights, or in this case, Mounted Lights, just as the H and N Keys handle Night and Thermal.

As is, there are some areas on River CIty Night that when you drop onto you have to overcome being disoriented, and the use of lights is to help you get a better fix on your location as well as handle odd bits of terrain which under Night Vision or Thermal vision can still pose a problem.

Now I don't know if you have ever used a night vision device, civilian or military, but I will tell you this, I have, and when someone shines a light in your face, it plays havoc with your vision. Not all vehicles have shutters that flip down automatically. Very few in fact. Drive a 6X6 sometime at night with a set of night goggles on sometime, and have a car (civilian), come down the road. It's not fun. It makes no diffence if you take your goggles off or not, you are still going to be blind, and often the truck has been mounted with IR headlights or slits for stealth, and TARFU is an understatement. If you got to use a newer unit or night vision device that allowed you to keep your vision, you are very lucky. My unit never got them, and If I used the terms to describe my opinion of them the Mods would have to step in and shut this thread down. As I said, the original idea on this was for navigation, but also considering the size and power of Mechs a light with better range as suggested is a good idea.

Now also, a modern rocket or missile has a far longer range that the weapons on Mechwarrior, so it also would be suffice to say that defenses against a light by night vision devices would not be up to par with modern counterparts, despite the year being 3050.

So far most players agree that having a light would be a good idea, and that is the main point of this thread, so that hopefully one day we can have the option of mounting a light on our Mechs, as part of the Mech customization. I understand your point of view SerRed, and thank you for it. I have added to this post so that you may also have a better understanding of my point of view. Thank you.,

[fandre]

It is a game. If PGI decides to make a AutoCakeCannon which blinds your mech covering it in cake, they can do it.

Btw. if you use a shutter, you hardly see anything while it is shut. Sensor might not have enough dynamic range to handle a floodlight directed to them, even in the year 30xx.

Edited by fandre, 03 April 2014 - 06:33 AM.

[TexAce]

Alex Warden, on 11 March 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

nah thanks, what for? to show everybody "hey over here! shoot ME pls, shoot me shoot shoot me"? ... i honestly (really honest) can´t see any use for it.... HV and NV do their jobs well enough, and up to 24 additional dynamic light sources would probably impact performance alot (plus, well done headlights/flashlights are not achieved as easy as you might think,i can imagine them to cause more trouble than they´d solve... )

I find spotting mechs in the Forest map EXTREMLY difficult. Its foggy and smudgy and NV doesnt help, neither does HV because it feels like it only reaches 500 meters in front. No way to spot enemies in the distance. I hate that map because of it.

[Trooper60709]

DISCO ATLAS FTW YO. ACTULLY it would be cool, but then you would have raven 3L spam with flood lamps and ECM. Do you really want that?

[XtremWarrior]

Make them also available for Missiles Slot: I like the idea of a wall of lamps in both ears of a Catapult.

Regarding gameplay, my opinion is that it should have a range from 400 to 600m without any real tactical value.

[Ovion]

I like the idea.

I think however, that instead of taking a weapons slot, have it like BAP, where every mech can have 1.
Give it a weight value (maybe like, 3pts of armour worth, or potentially 0.5T like a TAG), and take a crit slot.
Maybe have it so it must be mounted on the Torso.

Cost it the same as a Flamer (15k)

Edited by Ovion, 03 April 2014 - 02:41 PM.

[MarineTech]

As pointed out before, lights are NOT a good thing on the battlefield.

Back when I was in the Marines, the old M60A3 tanks still had the ability to mount a searchlight on the cannon barrel. They were never put there because in training, it was realized very quickly that when you use your searchlight, you can see 1 enemy. But, EVERYBODY on the battlefield now knows where YOU are.

Think about it. You want to basically give everybody out there the equivalent of a free target lock on you?