775 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

DocBach, on 24 March 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

In general, however, the AC+PPC pinpoint requires the user to expose themselves to enemy fire, even if for just moment in the case of poptarters. The LRM boat can put up higher numbers without every peeking outside of cover.

only if they have good support. Doc, how often you PUG and NO ONE holds a lock? Yeah, you can get it yourself, but it means 2 seconds of exposure to get the lock, IF the other guy stays exposed that long, and then flight time for the LRMs, which if the guy is past 500 meters can be an eternity, all the while you being exposed to insta return fire. And Either you stay out and endure it if you want a second barrage, or you try to grab cover, then go through the lock up tango all over again.

When coordination happens, LRMs can be ridiculously easy, though the damage spread usually means someone else gets the kill, you just tend to get them chasing their tail in panic. But basing anything on the ridiculously small percentage of the time teamwork actually breaks out, is pretty fallacious reasoning itself. Because even now, unless you are in a premade, or riding the coattails of a premade that brought TAG or NARC, it's still very easy to burn through 1000s of missiles only to do nearly no damage thanks to broken locks.

[M T]

Wow a super small nerf. Seriously lets just put them at 150m and be done with it, right in the middle of current vs pre-buff.

Lets not further carebear our non-able aimers.



Why not prioritize your precious time by actually BALANCING other weapons, like Pulse lasers, simply need buffed badly. Since beta. They are simply almost 99% uselss because of the massive heat. The duration decrease doesnt compensate at all by a wide margin.

Edited by Marctraider, 24 March 2014 - 05:24 PM.

[Rex Budman]

Paul you have a great skill in ***** the game for so many people and making them wait so long for things to get back to balance.

I understand this game is F2P but the fact is, I, as many others, have paid for items in this game and DEMAND that you no longer take such a loose attitude to changes and use your test servers before implementing changes that would otherwise reduce quality of the game.

In other words; I'm a paying customer, stop ***** around with the product I purchased, and if you need to make a change then follow this ancient proverb; MEASURE TEN TIMES, CUT ONCE! (I think it's actually "measure twice, cut once", but it's clear to all of us that you're an idiot)

Edited by Rex Budman, 24 March 2014 - 05:25 PM.

[luigi256]

Marctraider, on 24 March 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

Wow a super small nerf. Seriously lets just put them at 150m and be done with it, right in the middle of current vs pre-buff.

Lets not further carebear our non-able aimers.



Why not prioritize your precious time by actually BALANCING other weapons, like Pulse lasers, simply need buffed badly. Since beta. They are simply almost 99% uselss because of the massive heat. The duration decrease doesnt compensate at all by a wide margin.

People can like their own posts? I did not know that lol.

[Livebait]

Not good enough. Maybe to 135. Also, cabin shake is still too high. Less CT damage is needed with more randomness of hits. LRM's prior to patch worked well. IMO only weak pilots required a change to LRM. My stats prior to your wipe was just dandy with LRM kills & damage.

[Deathlike]

Mister Blastman, on 24 March 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

What about the LRMs constantly hitting legs?

Those legs must be huge.

Although, that's the natural result of running away from missiles that target your torso... the legs have to give.

[cSand]

Rex Budman, on 24 March 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

Paul you have a great skill in ***** the game for so many people and making them wait so long for things to get back to balance.

I understand this game is F2P but the fact is, I, as many others, have paid for items in this game and DEMAND that you no longer take such a loose attitude to changes and use your test servers before implementing changes that would otherwise reduce quality of the game.

In other words; I'm a paying customer, stop ***** around with the product I purchased, and if you need to make a change then follow this ancient proverb; MEASURE TEN TIMES, CUT ONCE! (I think it's actually "measure twice, cut once", but it's clear to all of us that you're an idiot)

Laying down personal insults eh.

I'd say there's definitely 1 clear idiot here, and here's a hint: he doesn't work for PGI

[ICEFANG13]

Dear Paul,

I am pleased that the LRMs were watched and responded so quickly, it was a great job. However, can we get SRMs working 100% right too? Its probably the only reason I don't play anymore, other than a broken hand.

-JR7-D

PS Streaks are for nubs

[MischiefSC]

At this point I would also go with flattening the trajectory as well - indirect fire is a bit too effective. Especially on maps like Caustic, Frozen City, Tourmaline, Canyon, etc. There are swaths of area where there simply is no way to avoid LRMs indirect fire. Someone spots you and you may as well just power down. No AMS is going to deal with 120 to 150 LRMs raining on you every 3.5 seconds.

Flatten the trajectory some too. It's fast, fast enough that with LOS you can shoot and move now. The need to make them primarily indirect was solved by speeding their travel time up.

[Asmudius Heng]

MischiefSC, on 24 March 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

At this point I would also go with flattening the trajectory as well - indirect fire is a bit too effective. Especially on maps like Caustic, Frozen City, Tourmaline, Canyon, etc. There are swaths of area where there simply is no way to avoid LRMs indirect fire. Someone spots you and you may as well just power down. No AMS is going to deal with 120 to 150 LRMs raining on you every 3.5 seconds.

Flatten the trajectory some too. It's fast, fast enough that with LOS you can shoot and move now. The need to make them primarily indirect was solved by speeding their travel time up.

Just change the missile spread for indirect, this will reduce effective damage without making them outright miss due to cover and provide a much neded balancing mechanism

[AxeHammer]

Thanks for the quick change base on community feedback.

Edited by AxeHammer, 24 March 2014 - 06:05 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

AxeHammer, on 24 March 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

Thanks for the quick change base on community feedback.

actually,. according to Paul, it specifically has nothing to do with community feedback. Take that for what you will

[MischiefSC]

Asmudius Heng, on 24 March 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

Just change the missile spread for indirect, this will reduce effective damage without making them outright miss due to cover and provide a much neded balancing mechanism

The problem is just bulk. You get 3 boats with 150, 170 tubes firing indirect and on some maps (canyon, caustic being the worst) almost the whole map (any canyon on Canyon for example, anywhere on Caustic save both bases or the two mesas) lacks any possible cover. You'll just take it. One NARC or a couple taggings by a light and WHOOSH.

Ideally they would just add periodic 2 level high chunks of rock to the maps but, well, flattening the trajectory so that 1high cover will protect you if you're hugging it would be easier. Not a lot - if you're not kissing stone you should still catch LURMs, but currently the high arc and then near straight down trajectory ignores those forms of cover.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rex Budman, on 24 March 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

Paul you have a great skill in ***** the game for so many people and making them wait so long for things to get back to balance.

I understand this game is F2P but the fact is, I, as many others, have paid for items in this game and DEMAND that you no longer take such a loose attitude to changes and use your test servers before implementing changes that would otherwise reduce quality of the game.

In other words; I'm a paying customer, stop ***** around with the product I purchased, and if you need to make a change then follow this ancient proverb; MEASURE TEN TIMES, CUT ONCE! (I think it's actually "measure twice, cut once", but it's clear to all of us that you're an idiot)

yup, insult people and belittle them...isn't that the tactic that caused PGI to stop listening to the forums in the first place?

MischiefSC, on 24 March 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

The problem is just bulk. You get 3 boats with 150, 170 tubes firing indirect and on some maps (canyon, caustic being the worst) almost the whole map (any canyon on Canyon for example, anywhere on Caustic save both bases or the two mesas) lacks any possible cover. You'll just take it. One NARC or a couple taggings by a light and WHOOSH.

Ideally they would just add periodic 2 level high chunks of rock to the maps but, well, flattening the trajectory so that 1high cover will protect you if you're hugging it would be easier. Not a lot - if you're not kissing stone you should still catch LURMs, but currently the high arc and then near straight down trajectory ignores those forms of cover.

because the previous flat arc made LRMs absolutely useless except in open terrain, thus removing theri traditional "indirect" fire use?

[MischiefSC]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 March 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

because the previous flat arc made LRMs absolutely useless except in open terrain, thus removing theri traditional "indirect" fire use?

Just a small flattening. A few degrees. Just enough for the lip of the Canyon or the Caldera to catch most the missiles if you're close enough to it. I'm talking like 3-5 degrees.

[Bishop Steiner]

i still think trajectory should be adjustable, with taking a high angle shot reducing range noticeably, whereas a relatively flat angle shot travels farther, but obviously is also less able to overcome terrain.

Marctraider, on 24 March 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

Wow a super small nerf. Seriously lets just put them at 150m and be done with it, right in the middle of current vs pre-buff.

Lets not further carebear our non-able aimers.



Why not prioritize your precious time by actually BALANCING other weapons, like Pulse lasers, simply need buffed badly. Since beta. They are simply almost 99% uselss because of the massive heat. The duration decrease doesnt compensate at all by a wide margin.

lolz.

Large pulse are in a great spot right now.

[Asmudius Heng]

MischiefSC, on 24 March 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

The problem is just bulk. You get 3 boats with 150, 170 tubes firing indirect and on some maps (canyon, caustic being the worst) almost the whole map (any canyon on Canyon for example, anywhere on Caustic save both bases or the two mesas) lacks any possible cover. You'll just take it. One NARC or a couple taggings by a light and WHOOSH.

Ideally they would just add periodic 2 level high chunks of rock to the maps but, well, flattening the trajectory so that 1high cover will protect you if you're hugging it would be easier. Not a lot - if you're not kissing stone you should still catch LURMs, but currently the high arc and then near straight down trajectory ignores those forms of cover.

Which is why bulk LRMs but with a bad spread could still work as while thwy would hit, a lot of missiles wouldnt.

A change in trajetory might be in order but veer but a little bit too far and you might see it become useless if there is too much cover for people to hide in.

It is certainly part of the equation i will give you that but i feel worse missiles spread is the best single variable to test next (as long as it is different for indirect and direct fire.

[MischiefSC]

Asmudius Heng, on 24 March 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

Which is why bulk LRMs but with a bad spread could still work as while thwy would hit, a lot of missiles wouldnt.

A change in trajetory might be in order but veer but a little bit too far and you might see it become useless if there is too much cover for people to hide in.

It is certainly part of the equation i will give you that but i feel worse missiles spread is the best single variable to test next (as long as it is different for indirect and direct fire.

Problem then becomes you're gimping smaller missile boats - larger boats overcome spread via volume. I get what you're saying, I'd just like to keep smaller payloads viable. AMS already destroy 10 or less pretty effectively.

[Asmudius Heng]

MischiefSC, on 24 March 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Problem then becomes you're gimping smaller missile boats - larger boats overcome spread via volume. I get what you're saying, I'd just like to keep smaller payloads viable. AMS already destroy 10 or less pretty effectively.

Smaller launchers have always been a problem though i dont know if this is going to make much difference to that issue.

My second concern to LRMs quite frankly is that mixing them with other weapons make them pretty crappy - i would actually prefer them to be fire and forget but i am probably in the minority there.

However if the spread is worked out by the volume of missiles fired would smaller launchers actually have a better overall spread while 60 LRMs launched at once would be a wider spread due to the fact they simply cannot all travel too close together? I dont know ... but maybe thats an option too ... the big alpahs get a spread nerf ... though that might just lead to chain firing

However i have never seen chain firing to be that effective - AMS eats it up and people duck into cover and you lose half your volley - its a risk/reward for the annoyance factor that i dont mind.

[ShinVector]

BLOOD WOLF, on 24 March 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

Just curious, how many matches did you see the whole team bring AMS and at least 2 tons? i would also ask is why cant players spare 3.5 tons for AMS. There were some matches i played were only half the team brought AMS and sometimes less than that. With speed reduced i sure hope people don't think they can start to leave behind a handy AMS. Even with 1 ton its still something

For your reference and watch what happened to 3 Tons of AMS ammo on a Dual AMS mechs. ;p