33 replies to this topic

[Danghen Woolf]

Again quoter is INOP.

Malleus, you have valid points and it is always nice to see people on who are TT players. Everyone has an opinion and deserves to have an outlet for it, as well as be respected if it is different. It could very well be that PGI has so many resources in the project that it is too expensive to back out, we do not know the details of the contracts the have struck, maybe they have fees due if there is a breach of contract, maybe their Dragoons Rating will go down if they flee the battlefield, I sure don't know. What I do know is that every Dev I have spoken to either on the forums or in-game has seemed very willing and even eager to make this game something that will bring glory to the Battletech/MechWarrior franchise.

As I said before, TT players can be some of the worst when it coms to messing with Canon, and our expectations are always high when it comes to the franchise so there is a lot of pressure to get it right. If you or anyone decides to spend money for the product you want it to be what you want, that is basic marketing. So far there have been setbacks, the 1-to-1 timeline, that was great until they could not maintain it. The Clan Invasion, who knows what will happen. Community Warfare, some say vaporware, who really knows, PGI isn't producing a public work schedule. The only people that really know where this is headed are the Devs and the license holders. All I can hope for is that the product we have now will become what we want it to be.

Until then though, good luck and see you on the battlefield.

[CarlBar]

@Danghen:

First type [.quote][.quote/] without the fullstop and use copy past to quote.

Second i gotta disagree massively with you on the heat scale. If we didn't have GH boated energy weapons, (mainly ML, PPC, LL and ERLL), would dominate the meta utterly even at TT stat's because it emphasises getting the most damage for the least heat and weight, (heat so you cna fire more weapons, weight so you can carry more HS's to max your heat cap). I've got a little essay on this i can send you via PM if you want a more complex explanation, (it's part of a larger thing that's still WIP). Also if they wanted to lower the CD's, of weapons. Lower the heat and damage too. Would the pinpoint meta be so bad if everything was doing 40% the damage it currently is?

[CheeseThief]

If everything was doing 40% less damage, then pin point would rule even more because it would be the only way to kill someone in a timely fashion.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Its not a TT player post, its a troll post, or payed one. Any true TT fan would see lack of elementary care about frenchise.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 28 March 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

Thats not true. Min/maxers can only exist if a game is unbalanced. If a game is perfectly balance there is absolutely nothing to min/max because no combination of weapons will give you an advantage.

I have yet to play a game where the right equipment does not provide an edge.

[Khobai]

Quote

I have yet to play a game where the right equipment does not provide an edge.

Because most games with customization elements arnt balanced. In a well balanced game there is no "right" equipment because everything has equivalent strengths and weaknesses.

[sokitumi]

I hate this thread. TT people need to understand that there's always a difference between the book and the movie. Now go paint a miniature ...

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 29 March 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

Because most games with customization elements arnt balanced. In a well balanced game there is no "right" equipment because everything has equivalent strengths and weaknesses.

Did I say customized? Does the equipment need to customized to be the right load out for the mission? No.

[Khobai]

Quote

Did I say customized? Does the equipment need to customized to be the right load out for the mission? No.

If a game doesnt allow customization then you cant have min/maxing. We were talking about min/maxers. You cant have min/maxers unless two things are true: 1) the game has customization 2) the game has unbalanced customization choices. Whenever a game has both of those, players will min/max the system.

So working backwards, theres two obvious ways to eliminate min/maxing. 1) dont have customization. 2) make all customization choices equal. Obviously the first one isnt an option since we dont have a stock mech only gamemode. So really the only way to eliminate min/maxing in MWO would be to balance all weapons within a very close margin of eachother; which we arnt even close to right now.

Edited by Khobai, 29 March 2014 - 10:00 AM.

[Mcgral18]

sokitumi, on 29 March 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

I hate this thread. TT people need to understand that there's always a difference between the book and the movie. Now go paint a miniature ...

There is also a difference between 20 damage over 10 seconds and 60 damage over 10 seconds, but it seems PGI doesn't notice.

Or 2 damage compared to 38...

[Khobai]

Quote

There is also a difference between 20 damage over 10 seconds and 60 damage over 10 seconds, but it seems PGI doesn't notice.

20 damage in a random location over 10 seconds vs 60 damage in an aimed location over 10 seconds.

Its not so much the higher damage thats the problem but rather the aiming.

[Danghen Woolf]

@ Jager Gonzo,
I wish I was getting paid then I would post more often. I see that PGI is bringing a franchise to a much more broad market, MWLL was great but it was a niche, few people outside of the brand were even aware of its existence and to top it off it was created as a gentleman's agreement between the property holders and the Devs of the game. I do play TT, I think I play MegaMek more than I do MWO, but even that isn't REAL Battletech. I did not begin this post to troll the forum, simply to state that the game does have balance issues but that I am generally satisfied with the progress being made to correct them. I hve to assume that not all of the people on the Dev team have actually ever even played a game of TT so we as a community should not flame them for not living up to TT rules. Thank you for insight though.

@sokitumi,
I am a terrible painter. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I know the difference between Battletech and MechWarrior Online, I do not hold the same expectations for the two parts of the same franchise. Thank you for your comment. I apologize that this thread is not helpful to you.

@CarlBar
I would like to read it, thank you. As far as the 40% less damage that would support for a reduction in armor points, the current numbers reflect a significant increase due to the pinpoint accuracy weapons. Imagine games where the TT max 9 armor and 3 internal for the head was almost an assured instant kill, or where any crit on ammo resulted in an ammo explosion. Those would be short games indeed. Thank you for your response.

[Nastyogre]

Lightfoot, on 28 March 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Ghost Heat plus DHS 1.4 is too much heat nerfing. Dump either one. Then you would have heat that pilots could manage instead of just shutting down and exploding like you do with both nerfs, unless you are running ballistics in which case Ghost Heat and DHS 1.4 have zero effect on your mech. Zero.

The consequence of DHS 1.4 and Ghost Heat is that iconic, canon, Battletech stock energy mechs like the AWS-9M do not function in MWO. On some moderately hot maps the AWS-9M explodes on the third salvo of it's three ERPPC's. That's not supporting Battletech at all in my book. Battletech is balanced so that all these diverse Mechs are on roughly equal footing and that allows players to be the agent of any success that the Mechs obtain on the field of play. Ghost Heat plus DHS 1.4 blocks this from happening and enforces gameplay that only non-energy mechs have a chance of winning.

When they added Ghost Heat it stopped me from buying anymore mechs because most of them don't work or don't do anything different from the Mechs I already own, many of which no longer work either. Prior to that I bought most new mechs that came out. I have 51 mechs, but only one Firestarter since Ghost Heat.

I dislike ghost heat, its just silly. I dislike 1/4 DHS but I know why they do it, to slow the game. Simply put the recycle times for weapons should be three times as long and we should have half the armor we do. People would think that is kinda boring to play in a FPS game (which this is at its heart)

So they balance our speed of death with more than one variable. Heat Disipation, armor, weapon damage, heat generation, projectile speed, weapon placement, weapon mix. Its a bit list, and there are probably other factors I'm not accounting for.

The idea that PGI can create a "perfectly balanced" game is preposterous. Perfectly balanced is Chess or Checkers. Even then, somebody gets to go first. Now are there things that need balancing? Yes. Weapons should not be so pinpoint. Convergence should be non-existant for snap shots, you should have to have a bead on a target for several seconds to get covergence with non-arm weapons. SRM grouping should be tighter. BAllistics should carry less ammo per ton (they are too dominant and its too easy to avoid the big limiter to Ballistic weapons, ammunition.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 29 March 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

If a game doesnt allow customization then you cant have min/maxing. We were talking about min/maxers. You cant have min/maxers unless two things are true: 1) the game has customization 2) the game has unbalanced customization choices. Whenever a game has both of those, players will min/max the system.

So working backwards, theres two obvious ways to eliminate min/maxing. 1) dont have customization. 2) make all customization choices equal. Obviously the first one isnt an option since we dont have a stock mech only gamemode. So really the only way to eliminate min/maxing in MWO would be to balance all weapons within a very close margin of eachother; which we arnt even close to right now.

Which would suck cause there would be no reason to take anything but the small weapons as that would be how you could pack on the damage required. I seem to remember at one point the complaint was there was no reason to take anything but the 9 Energy HP Awesome cause it was able to be fast AN carry a bunch o medium lasers. Your suggestion though fairly logical, is no better than Pop Tart v LRM.