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This Is Not A Complaint!


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#1 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:32 AM

So I patched yesterday, and for a lark a swapped my AC20 for a Gauss(3 tons of ammo). Went out to the play ground to test it out with some PPCs... After only 3 Mechs I ran out of Gauss?
Awesome
Atlas
Centurion

Now I WAS shooting from sides
I was registering Hits on both the wire frame and the Crosshairs... But 3 tons of Gauss with twin PPC to kill 3 Mechs...
...
...

Is that normal when trying to burrow through Canon Armor starting from the Arms?

I don't remember it being that... hungry in the past.

Anyway, Thanks for any insight. :wub:

#2 YueFei

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:38 AM

It's probably because of the angle you are shooting from, it's a bad angle. Even after the arm and shoulder are destroyed, you're getting 50% damage reduction on the damage transfer to the CT, making your shots less efficient.

Have you ever gone hunting? There are certain angles on the game animal that are considered bad for taking shots, because the shot might deflect off of bone and miss vital organs. Just think of it the same way here. =P

#3 SmurfOff

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:42 AM

Double armor killed the TT weapons balance. Add to that some mystically nerfing of damage through destroyed components, and it might account the need to expend 1000 pts to destroy an atlas...

#4 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 07:46 AM

Mystical indeed!

Thanks guys! :wub:

#5 Mcgral18

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:36 AM

25% damage if you hit an arm stump combined with a destroyed side torso, halved twice.

#6 Lord Perversor

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:46 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 02 April 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

So I patched yesterday, and for a lark a swapped my AC20 for a Gauss(3 tons of ammo). Went out to the play ground to test it out with some PPCs... After only 3 Mechs I ran out of Gauss?
Awesome
Atlas
Centurion

Now I WAS shooting from sides
I was registering Hits on both the wire frame and the Crosshairs... But 3 tons of Gauss with twin PPC to kill 3 Mechs...
...
...

Is that normal when trying to burrow through Canon Armor starting from the Arms?

I don't remember it being that... hungry in the past.

Anyway, Thanks for any insight. :angry:


Just a quick note you'll burn nearly 300-400 dmg on just destroying an Atlas+ Awesome Arms+ Side torso plus the Dmg reduction if hitting the stumps as Mcgral18 said yes it can be quite possible.

Btw how much Dmg you did at the end this may explain if your hits registered or not (3-4 tons of Gauss ammo gone vs 300-400 dmg is good as example )

#7 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:50 AM

Once the arm and side is removed... What Stump though? Or is that a Catgirl killing question?

#8 Lord Perversor

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:54 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 02 April 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

Once the arm and side is removed... What Stump though? Or is that a Catgirl killing question?


The little metal and wires wreck it remains attached to the mech (specially noticeable after destroying the Arms more than Side torsos) still count as Arms and hits impacting them deal 25% less dmg to side torso, wich may add to a destroyed St to grant a magical 50% dmg reduction to CT if shoots not hiting it on a straigth line (hence the reason of the old zombie cent)

Pretty much this .
Posted Image
AS far i'm aware PGI corrected a bit the Hitbox and Centurions tumps sized but they still there..

Edited by Lord Perversor, 02 April 2014 - 08:55 AM.


#9 Kenyon Burguess

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:55 AM

you obviously got a defective gauss gun, next time be less thrifty and pay the full price in c-bills instead of an offbrand paid in small birds. also, the others are correct, destroyed parts were designed to soak additional damage,

#10 Bobzilla

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:56 AM

I'd say your accuracy wasn't 100% with your 1000 pts of damage you fired (just a guess). Takes about 250 points of damage to armor alone to go through an Atlas' arm and torso and ct. In theroy you could have cored about 9 atlases if you never missed and always hit the CT. So 1/3 your potential kills is pretty good, its like having a 33% accuracy.

#11 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:27 AM

View PostLord Perversor, on 02 April 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:


The little metal and wires wreck it remains attached to the mech (specially noticeable after destroying the Arms more than Side torsos) still count as Arms and hits impacting them deal 25% less dmg to side torso, wich may add to a destroyed St to grant a magical 50% dmg reduction to CT if shoots not hiting it on a straigth line (hence the reason of the old zombie cent)

Pretty much this .
Posted Image
AS far i'm aware PGI corrected a bit the Hitbox and Centurions tumps sized but they still there..

Now the Side Torso destruction? If it is 100% gone how is the arm absorbing anything?

I know I am being picky... but continue to humor an ol' man!

#12 Lord Perversor

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:36 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 02 April 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

Now the Side Torso destruction? If it is 100% gone how is the arm absorbing anything?

I know I am being picky... but continue to humor an ol' man!


Nah the Arm is gone but the *stump* or the section it joins the ST remains (not the whole section just a little part on the shoulder) also the ST never fully dissapear from the Mech so it grans extra dmg reduction.

But as stated above this was the major reason for zombie cents, since the change, and with the updated hitboxes the *stump* issue it's mostly gone.

#13 Trauglodyte

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:50 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 02 April 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

Now the Side Torso destruction? If it is 100% gone how is the arm absorbing anything? I know I am being picky... but continue to humor an ol' man!


It's ghost structure, to make a joke to explain the point. Even though you destroy the item, it still exists in the art. If you are standin perpendicular to a mech and you blow off his arm, it is gone but some of it is still there. So, when you keep shooting at the side, you're hitting what is left of the arm and, therefore, only doing 50% of the damage due to PGI's tranferrence coding. Once you bull through the side torso, you then only do 25% damage to the CT because you're doing 50% damage to the ST, from the arm, and then only half of that cause you're still burning through the side torso.

Ironically enough, it is a way to lengthen TTK. Just not a lot of people realize it and some mechs, like the Centurion, have obscenely large arm waste once destroyed.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 02 April 2014 - 10:54 AM.


#14 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:53 AM

View PostTrauglodyte, on 02 April 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:


It's ghost structure, to make a joke to explain the point. Even though you destroy the item, it still exists in the art. If you are standin perpendicular to a mech and you blow off his arm, it is gone but some of it is still there. So, when you keep shooting at the side, you're hitting what is left of the arm and, therefore, only doing 50% of the damage due to PGI's tranferrence coding. Once you bull through the side torso, you then only do 25% damage to the CT because you're doing 50% damage to the ST, from the arm, and then only half of that cause you're still burning through the side torso.

Ironically enough, it is a way to lengthen TTK. Just not a lot of people realize it and some mechs, like the Centurion, have obscenely large arm waste once destroyed.

Wait? Pixels are absorbing my Slugs Damage? The artists couldn't/wouldn't remove the actual body part so it get to act like a shield? :angry:

#15 Trauglodyte

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:54 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 02 April 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Wait? Pixels are absorbing my Slugs Damage? The artists couldn't/wouldn't remove the actual body part so it get to act like a shield? :angry:


In Lord Perversor's pic, the cables and electrical conduits that you see hanging from the should stumps are considered part of the arm. While they seem rather thin, they are, in fact, take up the exact width of the non-destroyed arm. All of this is also kind of like when you fire at a mech, see the round explode on the terrain between you and the mech, yet you still do damage to your target. I was doing that the other night in my Awesome firing off PPCs - the plasma bolt would hit the ridge in front of me showing an explosion but I would still end up connecting the damage to my target. As Obi Wan said, "Your eyes can deceive you. Don't trust them!"

The entire arm isn't there but there is enough to where you may not see it when you fire. And it is especially problematic when you're at range due to it being even harder to pick up.

MWO: Don't always get what you want, don't always see what is there, and don't always hit what you point at.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 02 April 2014 - 10:56 AM.


#16 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 10:56 AM

View PostTrauglodyte, on 02 April 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:


In Lord Perversor's pic, the cables and electrical conduits that you see hanging from the should stumps are considered part of the arm. While they seem rather thin, they are, in fact, take up the exact width of the non-destroyed arm. All of this is also kind of like when you fire at a mech, see the round explode on the terrain between you and the mech, yet you still do damage to your target. I was doing that the other night in my Awesome firing off PPCs - the plasma bolt would hit the ridge in front of me showing an explosion but I would still end up connecting the damage to my target. As Obi Wan said, "Your eyes can deceive you. Don't trust them!"

Hows the arm still there when the torso it is attached to is/should also be reduced to a stump once the wire frame is black?

A Point to be made.
I am only asking these questions to elicit the answers someone new might need, I totally do get what is happening. :angry:

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 April 2014 - 11:01 AM.


#17 Trauglodyte

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:02 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 02 April 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Hows the arm still there when the torso it is attached to is/should also be reduced to a stump once the wire frame is black?


Well, that is more of a question to the art department. Essentially, they didn't want to redo the combat destruction models so we're stuck with what we have right now. Look at your Atlas. You can have the arm and the side torsos gone but they're still there.

Btw, I really hope that you're not post-April Fool's Day trolling me. :angry:

#18 Mawai

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:03 AM

View PostYueFei, on 02 April 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

It's probably because of the angle you are shooting from, it's a bad angle. Even after the arm and shoulder are destroyed, you're getting 50% damage reduction on the damage transfer to the CT, making your shots less efficient.

Have you ever gone hunting? There are certain angles on the game animal that are considered bad for taking shots, because the shot might deflect off of bone and miss vital organs. Just think of it the same way here. =P


Just to add to this ... there is a reason the Centurion is so effective as a zombie. The arms and side torso absorb damage even after being destroyed. If you fire on a centurion from the side in the testing grounds ... then only 1/4 of the damage transfers to the CT so it takes a very long time to destroy the mech.

I bug-reported this at least 6 months to a year ago since destroyed components still giving damage reduction on transfer seems wrong.

Ultimately, it comes down to how you define destruction. If destruction of a mech section means the functionality is destroyed but some remanant of the structure still exists ... then that remnant could reduce the damage passed along to other components.

On the other hand, if destruction actually means blowing off the mech section and complete destruction of the structure then the damage should transfer through destroyed sections without reduction.

The former seems to be the way MWO does it while the latter is the way Table Top does it as far as I know.

Edited by Mawai, 02 April 2014 - 11:04 AM.


#19 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:07 AM

Not Trolling, just asking the questions I would think a new play might be inclined to ask. :angry:

#20 Mcgral18

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Posted 02 April 2014 - 11:19 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 02 April 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Not Trolling, just asking the questions I would think a new play might be inclined to ask. :angry:


Who of course visit the forums, and will use the handy dandy search function.

I fear your efforts will be in vain.





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