33 replies to this topic

[DarthPeanut]

Well I picked up a BH on the sale a while back.

Been trying a couple loadouts and not happy with it, but that may just be me being spoiled by my heavies or other mechs I pilot more often.

Dropped the XL400 right off for a STD 380. Tried the ac20/ mls route... was not all that excited about it. Changed to lbx10/ 6x mls... better but still not thrilled. So was tinkering around in smurfys, thought about trying this. (I know, no ballistic in it is probably not popular on these but I not sure what else to try.)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...065a7c700073c59

Thoughts. Am I over thinking and just need to stick with the previous setup?

Edited by DarthPeanut, 25 April 2014 - 06:53 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

DarthPeanut, on 25 April 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

Well I picked up a BH on the sale a while back.

Been trying a couple loadouts and not happy with it, but that may just be me being spoiled by my heavies or other mechs I pilot more often.

Dropped the XL400 right off for a STD 380. Tried the ac20/ mls route... was not all that excited about it. Changed to lbx10/ 6x mls... better but still not thrilled. So was tinkering around in smurfys, thought about trying this. (I know, no ballistic in it is probably not popular on these but I not sure what else to try.)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...065a7c700073c59

Thoughts. Am I over thinking and just need to stick with the previous setup?

Well, do a cost/benefit analysis.

Your 380 lets you peak at a max of 67.7 kph. But, it runs hot, is entirely short range, and feels a little undergunned (in my opinion).

If you dropped to even a 350, you will then go 62.4 kph. That's a VERY minimal difference for picking up 10 tons to play around with. In addition, getting rid of Ferro Fibrous gives you 14 slots to play with...so even if you want to keep your loadout, you can cool it MUCH BETTER with a smaller engine and no Ferro. Actually, if you like the loadout, I'd go with a STD 365.

The loadout itself it...restricted. It's very close-range, without much punch. Giving up that ballistic slot as empty makes me sad. If you had to pick one to ignore, I'd make it the missiles. SRM hit detection is still spotty, and the pinpoint AND range of a ballistic makes it the better choice in my head, every time.

If you like your short range LPL, may I recommend something like this instead? No one shoots at Atlas legs with those juicy torso hitboxes.

If it were me, I'd run it like this, with the playstyle you're looking for.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 25 April 2014 - 07:05 AM.

[DarthPeanut]

I am so use to more speed for maneuverability it seemed natural to go with the biggest STD I could. Although you are right it limits my options a bit.

I am not generally for SRMs at all right now with their detection issues but for the weight to potential damage they are hard to overlook to try to maximize my limited load out options running that STD380. I have no problem giving them up for tonnage if it puts me into a good ballistic combination with energy.

What I was running below. Lbx10 functions well and everything but I find it not as effective as I hoped. Also did a ac20/ 6x mls setup on it before that one below.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4011aa942bcc6d6

Guess I need to think about slowing it down with a smaller STD to try something else. Not looking forward to slow long walks on some maps. Maybe give a STD350 a shot and start playing with loadouts around it.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 25 April 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[SethAbercromby]

LB will spread its damage which is why it's often overlooked in builds but because it hits multiple times at once, it has a much higher chance to land an armor-penetrating crit that might destroy sensitive equipment (or blow up some ammo). The problem with MPLs is that they will run insanely hot on most builds. The short cycle times allow for high rates of fire but most underestimate that heat buildup and tend to overheat when combat starts getting hot (my old quad-MPL Misery build can testify to that). If you are willing to go for a STD 350, you could try something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9f4ed7c5f0a19b8

Medium Lasers and Large Pulse Lasers almost share the same range profile (the LPLs having slightly more reach than MLas), which makes them great for grouping. If you can run enough weapon groups comfortably, you could split your lasers into pairs (right/left MLas pair and the 2 LPLs together) for good heat control.

[DarthPeanut]

SethAbercromby, on 25 April 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

LB will spread its damage which is why it's often overlooked in builds but because it hits multiple times at once, it has a much higher chance to land an armor-penetrating crit that might destroy sensitive equipment (or blow up some ammo). The problem with MPLs is that they will run insanely hot on most builds. The short cycle times allow for high rates of fire but most underestimate that heat buildup and tend to overheat when combat starts getting hot (my old quad-MPL Misery build can testify to that). If you are willing to go for a STD 350, you could try something like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9f4ed7c5f0a19b8

Medium Lasers and Large Pulse Lasers almost share the same range profile (the LPLs having slightly more reach than MLas), which makes them great for grouping. If you can run enough weapon groups comfortably, you could split your lasers into pairs (right/left MLas pair and the 2 LPLs together) for good heat control.

The Lbx10 is great functionally and I hit solid with it. That said, it really does not shred crit areas always like I have hoped but still does ok. Psychological effect of pelting someone with a blast makes up for the mixed results I have with it though. Usually has them backing up pretty quick which gives you a chance for a follow up shot.

Yea I tried the mpls on the last build in place of 3 of the mls to try to give me a short duration armor stripping shot, lbx, and twist. Great in theory but not enough hitting power and runs hot like you said, which is what has left me back searching for something more satisfying to run.

Definitely going to try the STD350, been playing with load outs and the added tonnage should help. I like what you put together as well as some of the ones suggested earlier. I have not run a large wub setup in a while but now since the buff to them I just wanna give it a shot, hence my first posted setup. Open to anything really though.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 25 April 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[SethAbercromby]

DarthPeanut, on 25 April 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

The Lbx10 is great functionally and I hit solid with it. That said, it really does not shred crit areas always like I have hoped but still does ok. Psychological effect of pelting someone with a blast makes up for the mixed results I have with it though. Usually has them backing up pretty quick which gives you a chance for a follow up shot.

The problem with the crits is that they do happen, but you will only hit for fairly small damage compared to a critical hit with an AC10 round (as each pallet will roll for crits individually). But that small damage can still stack up and if you happen to ignite ammo, that component will take a lot of damage.

Edited by SethAbercromby, 25 April 2014 - 10:04 AM.

[Modo44]

The psychological effect of the shotgun is similar to the effect of the AC2. It makes enemies laugh and friends cringe. Unless you take one as a pure support weapon, upgrading to an AC10 or AC5 respectively is always preferred.

[DarthPeanut]

Modo44, on 25 April 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

The psychological effect of the shotgun is similar to the effect of the AC2. It makes enemies laugh and friends cringe. Unless you take one as a pure support weapon, upgrading to an AC10 or AC5 respectively is always preferred.

I am dropping solo and pugging so it is a little more effective psychologically than that but I agree if you have target data to know what is coming, it is all the difference in the world.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 25 April 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[thecrimsonchin8]

Settled on this as the best build possible for the chassis. Incredible short range punch with some LRM to make sure that you're never completely out of the fight. Runs hot, but is manageable with some intelligent weapon grouping and fire control: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5f1086d822ab40b

[SethAbercromby]

Modo44, on 25 April 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

The psychological effect of the shotgun is similar to the effect of the AC2. It makes enemies laugh and friends cringe. Unless you take one as a pure support weapon, upgrading to an AC10 or AC5 respectively is always preferred.

See? This is why I love that everyone underestimates the LB so much. If you think that no pinpoint == bad weapon, you won't even see the pain coming when you underestimate the weapon like that. It serves a different purpose than the AC10 and fulfills that role perfectly well. My Misery is performing at bests ever since I picked the LB instead of an AC, delivering substantial damage while taking on multiple enemies to secure the opening for a push/sweep.

thecrimsonchin8, on 25 April 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Settled on this as the best build possible for the chassis. Incredible short range punch with some LRM to make sure that you're never completely out of the fight. Runs hot, but is manageable with some intelligent weapon grouping and fire control: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5f1086d822ab40b

Correction, the build YOU happen to operate best with. I hate when people claim something to be the best/worst anything.

[Modo44]

SethAbercromby, on 25 April 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

See? This is why I love that everyone underestimates the LB so much. If you think that no pinpoint == bad weapon, you won't even see the pain coming when you underestimate the weapon like that.

Nah, I will disengage, and blow you to pieces from 500m while you turn my armor from yellow to orange, maybe. The only time the shotgun is strong, is for blowing up already open locations. The problem is, this is not 2-3 tons of MGs for finishing a match -- you traded a full on main weapon for the chance of "catching" a mech already mostly dead.

[thecrimsonchin8]

SethAbercromby, on 25 April 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Correction, the build YOU happen to operate best with. I hate when people claim something to be the best/worst anything.

Chill. You dont need to get all inflammatory and point stuff like that out. No one is going to take it as gospel and every, reasonable, person is going to assume that I meant that it is the best build for my purposes. The only one proclaiming that I mean it to be the best ever is you.

Edited by thecrimsonchin8, 25 April 2014 - 12:05 PM.

[WVAnonymous]

Back to the thread...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...85787aeb4a9f6e8

2 LL on top of the AC20 gets a little more "reach out and touch someone" with a 70 point alpha.

Also 0 free slots which is always nice.

Edited by WVAnonymous, 25 April 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Modo44, on 25 April 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

The psychological effect of the shotgun is similar to the effect of the AC2. It makes enemies laugh and friends cringe. Unless you take one as a pure support weapon, upgrading to an AC10 or AC5 respectively is always preferred.

Granted, one of my friends still swears by his 3x LBX Muromets...and I've seen him do really well with it, lol, and I STILL don't believe him.

[Ultimax]

I have a few loadouts, but I think this one is a bit unorthodox so I'll share it:


http://mwo.smurfy-ne...37a21d7c941cd72


STD 350 is plenty, it's a good sweet spot for speed and critical slot savings for DHS.

PPCs are a great all around weapon, they suffer from 2 issues:

1) Heat
2) 90m min range

At long range, you just duck back into cover to cool off.

At short range you switch to SPLs while trying to cooldown.


Why SPLs?

1) Covers 90m deadzone for PPCs.
2) Still do near 100% damage at 91m to help reach 53 point alpha
3) Same DPS as MLAS, but for much lower HPS. This build can fire the SPLs 25x consecutively vs. 10x if they were MLAS.
4) Great against face huggers, especially lights. The recycle is very high, which means it's harder for them to dart in and out of your FoV and avoid damage.


DPS is generally an irrelevant stat, but when you are cheek to cheek in a 100m brawl you can consistently pepper the same spot on the torso of anything that isn't a light or very fast medium.



Sometimes I alternate to 2x LPL and 3x MLAS, but only if I'm dropping with friends because it severely limits your range capability.

[DarthPeanut]

Well dropped to a 350 and experimenting with new load outs around it. Tried the ac20, 2x LL, 2x ML, srm6... little hot but did ok.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ed5d56c43829536

My inner desire to cheese it up a little to have some fun was to throw 6x LL on it for a few matches. I know ghost heat for 6x LL means you have to group them which kills their effectiveness vs when you use to be able to alpha all 6, but still was a lot of fun tearing off components on other mechs.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 28 April 2014 - 05:23 AM.

[Ultimax]

DarthPeanut, on 28 April 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

Well dropped to a 350 and experimenting with new load outs around it. Tried the ac20, 2x LL, 2x ML, srm6... little hot but did ok.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ed5d56c43829536

My inner desire to cheese it up a little to have some fun was to throw 6x LL on it for a few matches. I know ghost heat for 6x LL means you have to group them which kills their effectiveness vs when you use to be able to alpha all 6, but still was a lot of fun tearing off components on other mechs.

It's not that there is anything wrong with your build, but personally if I run the Boar's Head I want to try and take advantage of it's uniqueness - where as your build could be replicated on the RS.

Here's an example that uses LLAS (without frying yourself silly ) - I also kept an SRM since you had one in your build but I wouldn't use one personally.


Option 1) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9d6dc23130ac7ab


So ghost heat...it's actually not a big deal with 3x LLAS.

Here's why.


LLAS = 7 heat.
3 x 7 = 21

With Ghost Heat = 24

So +3 points from ghost heat.

3 x 9 = 27 damage



6x MLAS
= 30 damage
= 24 heat


For the same heat you get nearly the same damage (3 point difference) - but you get 450m range.


The 3x LLAS are all in your right arm so you can use your other arm as a shield.


Here are two alternate builds based off of that one:

Option 2) No SRM, +3 DHS: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d5f4f312ece8aee

Option 3) 3x LLAS, 3x MLAS: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c506ce9fca0907b



I ran the Option 2 build for a while, and it worked well. You could also shave armor from the arm and pump the legs back up in that version.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 28 April 2014 - 07:39 AM.

[DarthPeanut]

Hrm interesting. You make good point about the heat with 3x LL.

I will give some of these load outs a try this evening. I really have never done a shield side build with the BH but looks pretty reasonable to do and still plenty of alpha hitting power.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I still have good results with BH.

This morning.



XL 400 + 5 ER large lasers.

Plenty of 800+ damage games.

[Ultimax]

I Zeratul I, on 08 May 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

XL 400 + 5 ER large lasers.

Plenty of 800+ damage games.

Do you run 5 ER LLAS with no ballistic?