36 replies to this topic

[InnerSphereNews]

http://mwomercs.com/...rivate-matches/

[WVAnonymous]

Thanks!

[Monsoon]

We played with it 'tonnes' last night during our Merc Madness event. The one thing that came up again and again, was the inability to configure mechs with the exception of modules/consumables. I'm hoping this is one of the features we'll be seeing with LM Phase 2.

Otherwise, we were all in love with Private matches.

Edited by Monsoon, 30 April 2014 - 01:50 PM.

[GermanPartisan]

Really guys get rid of these premiumplayer options, it says "cashgrab" so much it hurts. Its the wrong path to go and you know once you start moving in that general direction youll keep going further down that road. Mechs are one thing ( given that most heromechs arent overpowered and it still needs individual skill to use them correctly), Cbill boosts with premium time - still ok ...its just a way to get to the same point quicker. But hiding actual ingame options behind a paywall: Not that smart.

Before you know where you are there are premium-maps and premium-gamemodes ( "only available for players that have at least one month of premium time activated")

Just dont.

Every step down that path brings you closer to overcoming a certain inhibition level, from there it can quickly snowball into more and more things that are behind a paywall. Its a sure way to alienate people.

Coming from a guy that has invested about 400-500€ in the game and has premiumtime activated almost all the time.

So long
Seb

Edited by GermanPartisan, 30 April 2014 - 02:48 PM.

[PappySmurf]

PGI/IGP/DEVS/STAFF will never learn charging for private matches is like throwing a torch on a gas station pump when its dispensing gas.

Or you could compare what there doing to shipbuilding the master builders which=(old MechWarrior players and bright new players) that say we have the hull done on this boat but we need more time to fix the boat right so it wont sink. But the junior ship builders which =(PGI/IGP/DEVS/STAFF) say owe yes lets go test out the hull first and they all pile into the boat overload it and it sinks. Most drown a few come back and say to the master builders why did it sink?

The master builder turns around and says=( Because You Never Listen) so you deserve to drown.

PGI/IGP/DEVS/STAFF should have built a lobby system like the one the guy built for MWO=(https://mwolobby.com/) players then made it free to play on so the community could rebound grow build leagues ETC. I don't know why they wont listen but they also don't learn after 3 years the game is still not a MechWarrior game.

Edited by PappySmurf, 30 April 2014 - 03:14 PM.

[Jman5]

I know you guys are unsure about server costs and stress, but you guys should at least change it so only one player needs premium for customized games. Requiring two players to have active premium time creates unneeded hassle. I don't mind paying for premium time, but I hate the fact that I can't 1v1 someone unless I cajole them into spending money.

This is particularly going to create major headaches for people trying to act as trainers or mentors for beginners and clanmates. If I bring in a buddy and want to show him some tips and tricks in a safe and controlled environment, I should be the only one required to put money down.

Edited by Jman5, 30 April 2014 - 04:30 PM.

[Frost Lord]

I cant think of a game that forced you to pay for a particular game feature except perhaps MMOS that were sub or have a sub option but they have more things to make it worth your wile, whats next pay to have a friends list?

I am the only one of mt friends who still plays... some times, make this a free for atlest those who have put say over $100 into this game and you might get us back.

Edited by Frost Lord, 30 April 2014 - 05:09 PM.

[Domenoth]

GermanPartisan, on 30 April 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Before you know where you are there are premium-maps and premium-gamemodes ( "only available for players that have at least one month of premium time activated")

Just dont.

Every step down that path brings you closer to overcoming a certain inhibition level, from there it can quickly snowball into more and more things that are behind a paywall. Its a sure way to alienate people.

While I can see where you are coming from, I don't agree with the conclusion you've drawn. Servers just aren't free and their limiter is not likely to be their hard-drive space (number of maps and mechs that can be drawn from for each match).

The limiter is going to be processing cycles (including ram), and then network traffic. Each active game consumes those precious, limiting resources. Without actually benchmarking anything, I'm confident that the majority of those resources per game are consumed by the world (map and physics rules) and the actual number of players (2-24) is likely to be insignificant. Think of an automobile. The weight/performance of an automobile isn't drastically affected if you have 6 passengers vs just the driver.

With that in mind I can see why squatting on precious resources might need to come at a cost. Only PGI has the data to determine the toll on their P&L that these extra servers take. Based on the information I do have access too, I think it's too early to claim that they are dancing dangerously close to a pay-wall precipice.

Jman5, on 30 April 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

I know you guys are unsure about server costs and stress, but you guys should at least change it so only one player needs premium for customized games. Requiring two players to have active premium time creates unneeded hassle. I don't mind paying for premium time, but I hate the fact that I can't 1v1 someone unless I cajole them into spending money.

This is particularly going to create major headaches for people trying to act as trainers or mentors for beginners and clanmates. If I bring in a buddy and want to show him some tips and tricks in a safe and controlled environment, I should be the only one required to put money down.

Again, I can see where you're coming from, but your 1v1 example is likely to be the biggest drain/squandering of resources possible right now.

If there was some way to setup servers like tennis court complexes where each map has multiple 1v1 duels going at once, and everyone has to wait for enough 1v1'ers to join before the launch can happen, and everyone has to wait for all 1v1's to end before they can get their 'Mech back, then I could see offering free 1v1's because then the server would be operating at capacity.

Edit:
I think the option for you to somehow double-down would also be acceptable (pay his cost for him). But that isn't really viable in this context because the current currency is either on or off. There's no way for you to give more to cover him. Perhaps the ability to gift half-day premium times would cover this.

Edited by Domenoth, 30 April 2014 - 05:28 PM.

[GermanPartisan]

Domenoth, on 30 April 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

While I can see where you are coming from, I don't agree with the conclusion you've drawn. Servers just aren't free and their limiter is not likely to be their hard-drive space (number of maps and mechs that can be drawn from for each match).

The limiter is going to be processing cycles (including ram), and then network traffic. Each active game consumes those precious, limiting resources. Without actually benchmarking anything, I'm confident that the majority of those resources per game are consumed by the world (map and physics rules) and the actual number of players (2-24) is likely to be insignificant. Think of an automobile. The weight/performance of an automobile isn't drastically affected if you have 6 passengers vs just the driver.

With that in mind I can see why squatting on precious resources might need to come at a cost. Only PGI has the data to determine the toll on their P&L that these extra servers take. Based on the information I do have access too, I think it's too early to claim that they are dancing dangerously close to a pay-wall precipice.


Again, I can see where you're coming from, but your 1v1 example is likely to be the biggest drain/squandering of resources possible right now.

If there was some way to setup servers like tennis court complexes where each map has multiple 1v1 duels going at once, and everyone has to wait for enough 1v1'ers to join before the launch can happen, and everyone has to wait for all 1v1's to end before they can get their 'Mech back, then I could see offering free 1v1's because then the server would be operating at capacity.

Edit:
I think the option for you to somehow double-down would also be acceptable (pay his cost for him). But that isn't really viable in this context because the current currency is either on or off. There's no way for you to give more to cover him. Perhaps the ability to gift half-day premium times would cover this.

I was partly exaggerating to get a point across ^^ . And I specifically mentioned that Ive put quite an amount of money into the game to point out that I dont have any problems with them getting money from us. I know that there are significant costs involved in keeping servers up. I just dont think this is the right way to get them covered.

Edited by GermanPartisan, 30 April 2014 - 06:05 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Public matches are free. Private matches are also free as long as you don't mind playing with default settings that reflect the public queue.

Premium Private matches allow you to both a.) modify the game rules, and b.) bypass the free players.

Free-to-play games benefit each time a free player joins the game, even if that free player never spends a single dime. Yes. Why? Because a free playing player is a target, and a person that helps to fill the spots on a team. They improve the gameplay experience for everybody, and that's why people are encouraged to play the game even if not spending money - it's to make everyone happy, and happier players are more likely to spend more money.

The private queue is a way to not contribute to the gameplay experience of everyone else... so if you want to modify the rules and have your custom drops with friends, all while not supporting the rest of the playerbase's experience, then it's quite fair to require Premium Time or a small payment from 2/24 of the players playing. Heck, that's less than 10% of the players in that match contributing, and their contribution isn't even expensive by ANY means.

They way I see it, requiring just 1 person from each team to be Premium is a very fair and affordable price to pay for skipping-out on supporting the game for everybody else.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 30 April 2014 - 06:40 PM.

[Frost Lord]

Prosperity Park, on 30 April 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

Public matches are free. Private matches are also free as long as you don't mind playing with default settings that reflect the public queue.

Premium Private matches allow you to both a.) modify the game rules, and b.) bypass the free players.

Free-to-play games benefit each time a free player joins the game, even if that free player never spends a single dime. Yes. Why? Because a free playing player is a target, and a person that helps to fill the spots on a team. They improve the gameplay experience for everybody, and that's why people are encouraged to play the game even if not spending money - it's to make everyone happy, and happier players are more likely to spend more money.

The private queue is a way to not contribute to the gameplay experience of everyone else... so if you want to modify the rules and have your custom drops with friends, all while not supporting the rest of the playerbase's experience, then it's quite fair to require Premium Time or a small payment from 2/24 of the players playing. Heck, that's less than 10% of the players in that match contributing, and their contribution isn't even expensive by ANY means.

They way I see it, requiring just 1 person from each team to be Premium is a very fair and affordable price to pay for skipping-out on supporting the game for everybody else.

I have spent probably $300 I think I have contributed more then my fair share to the game plus I wouldn't be just playing privet matches but I currently have about 6-8 friends i play with consistently we don't have much use for premium time at this moment and using it for privet matches is a waste as you apparently don't get anything. so I cant get a full game together, let alone a side so i need to pay then find someone else to form another side of equal size right now that is a pain in the ass.

[Domenoth]

Frost Lord, on 30 April 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

I have spent probably $300 I think I have contributed more then my fair share to the game plus I wouldn't be just playing privet matches but I currently have about 6-8 friends i play with consistently we don't have much use for premium time at this moment and using it for privet matches is a waste as you apparently don't get anything. so I cant get a full game together, let alone a side so i need to pay then find someone else to form another side of equal size right now that is a pain in the ass.

It sounds to me like your real issue might be that you have less than 12 friends and you want to be able to play with all of them at the same time. Furthermore, since your less-than-12 group is additionally less than 24, it would be simpler for you if PGI would also help you find your opponents. For you, it sounds like private matches aren't really the best solution for your situation.

If that's the case, I'd recommend putting your support behind PGI figuring out/adding a 2-10's queue. I don't think the issue is that PGI doesn't want to provide a 2-10's queue, just that they are concerned not enough people will make use of it to make it worth the effort (that whole 84% of players drop solo statistic and all). Adding your name and support to the list of people intently interested in a 2-10's queue would be a constructive way to work toward changing this game for the better.

While I can't say I share your same predicament (I'm "blessed" with 0 friends so the decision to pug is extremely easy for me), I do sympathize with your frustration. Hopefully, PGI can put some ancillary tools in place soon to help alleviate some of these obstacles to people having fun playing with their friends.

GermanPartisan, on 30 April 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

I just dont think this is the right way to get them covered.

I can respect that. I can definitely acknowledge that better solutions may be out there. But to date I haven't heard any plausible suggestions (making them free might be nice but it doesn't actually contribute anything to defraying the cost of the servers). And in the absence of a better solution, I'm willing to concede to PGI that they are allowed to go with a sub-optimal solution rather than no solution at all.

Edited by Domenoth, 30 April 2014 - 08:29 PM.

[dragnier1]

Personally i feel that private matches are just a stop-gap until CW arrives. Once CW starts private matches will become under-utilized. If we logged private matches post-CW it would fill up 2 pages of the log book with most busy with either role warfare or the random, public matches.

Edited by dragnier1, 01 May 2014 - 12:30 AM.

[shotokan5]

If you are old enough to remember a show called laugh in. Very Interesting, But you are taking the cart before the horse. Go play the concept behind Battle Tech 3025 1. begin that way to build a community, which you have destroyed. 2. Once this unification has happened then move ahead to phase two.

By the way we had private matches in MW4 that cost us nothing. We all know how greedy and evil a certain M company is.

3. Your ideas have potential but you have no community to play it. Like having to drink St. Pauly girl warm or cold both are worse than moose head.

[employee24601]

Hats off to those that continue to stomach and in some cases, revel in the F2P model that is MWO. Honestly, best of luck and I hope PGI makes good on CW and the rest of it. Personally, I think requiring Premium Time to unlock custom launch options is a bit rich, but I do concede that being F2P they have to make money somehow.

And that's the crux of it; microtransactions and "Premium" shit are just wearing me out (says me with Premium Time still active). I need a holiday. And a stiff drink; bring on Star Citizen and the party Idris fleet I say.

[Xeno Phalcon]

While iv not played in a month or so I haven't bought premium time sense the original cbill nerf with the arrival of 12 mans, private matches ain't gonna change that.Honestly only thing that keeps me coming back to check the forums regularly is the hope for Warhawk, Nova and Summoner screenshots as how they turn out largely will dictate if I invest any more money in MWO.

[Crimson Fenris]

Great move PGI, to render premium time useless in private games. How cool is paying for an added 50% to ZERO gain ?

Except battling with friends in already mastered mechs, there is absolutely no incentive to play private matches.

No mentioning your absolute contempt against founders like us, who after helping you making this (beta) game, are denied the reward of custom matches for free ?
Was our 60/120$ not enough for a full game ?

What a shame...

[Mechteric]

Crimson Fenris, on 01 May 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

Great move PGI, to render premium time useless in private games. How cool is paying for an added 50% to ZERO gain ?

Except battling with friends in already mastered mechs, there is absolutely no incentive to play private matches.

No mentioning your absolute contempt against founders like us, who after helping you making this (beta) game, are denied the reward of custom matches for free ?
Was our 60/120$ not enough for a full game ?

What a shame...

I don't think you understand how Free 2 Play games work and fund themselves then. Without funding we wouldn't have this game. Oh and by the way, there are free private matches also, you missed that part apparently.


You see, free players are the content. Therefore they need to make sure as many free players as possible are playing the public PUG drops so even paying players will continue to play (nobody likes an empty playground). Also think of them as "Official Servers" or "Ranked Servers" like pretty much every other multiplayer game has.

So its not really much to ask that if you want more choices and to be able to play in an "Unranked Match" that you might need to pitch in a bit because you are separating yourself from the "public content". The fact they even let you play a free private match at all is something at least.


Finally, its obvious why private/unranked matches shouldn't earn you XP or CBills, because quite simply it would just be abused. Now one could argue about whether the consumables should be used up when in private matches, hopefully they'll consider lifting that.

[Crimson Fenris]

CapperDeluxe, on 01 May 2014 - 07:31 AM, said:

I don't think you understand how Free 2 Play games work and fund themselves then. Without funding we wouldn't have this game. Oh and by the way, there are free private matches also, you missed that part apparently.

You see, free players are the content. Therefore they need to make sure as many free players as possible are playing the public PUG drops so even paying players will continue to play (nobody likes an empty playground). Also think of them as "Official Servers" or "Ranked Servers" like pretty much every other multiplayer game has.

So its not really much to ask that if you want more choices and to be able to play in an "Unranked Match" that you might need to pitch in a bit because you are separating yourself from the "public content". The fact they even let you play a free private match at all is something at least.

Finally, its obvious why private/unranked matches shouldn't earn you XP or CBills, because quite simply it would just be abused. Now one could argue about whether the consumables should be used up when in private matches, hopefully they'll consider lifting that.

I'm perfectly aware of how F2P works.

I'm obviously aware of the reason behind no rewards private matches, but that I can't understand is :
- The players who buy premium time are doing for one reason only : being able to speed up the earning process. Which is purely denied in the private matches for obvious reasons.
Players are asked to literally waste their premium time only for being able to change the BASIC OPTIONS of any private match in any previous multiplayer game to date ?

Private matches serves only one purpose : being able to play without constraints between friends, with already earned (and mastered) mechs. Mechs that are mandatory to acquire throught public matches, with a useful premium time.

Free private matches are a pure joke, since when are you asked to pay to choose the map you want ? For a match you couldn't earn anything, not to mention the 23 other friends you must bring ?


And if anything is unbearable to me, is having spent 120$ in a beta, that for more than 2 years didn't bring any of the promised features (CW in first position), to finally be denied the simple right to play with friends like I wish ?
Weren't my money not enough for PGI ?
I could have afforded so much more full games for this price, and still awaiting the product I was advertised, with the content that worth 120$... not to be done soon, I guess...

120$... for a game that is not even fully completed by now... missing basically most basic and major features we could expect for a 2014 title... was a mistake I'll not make twice.

[Crimson Fenris]

This post sums it all :

Runs With Scissors, on 01 May 2014 - 09:58 AM, said:

1. WOW has tons more content. when MWO comes close to that ill shell out 15 a month no problem

2. kinda missing the point. people have put tons of money into the game (myself included) but PGI says unless ur paying right this second you don't count. </p>

3. premium time is not cheap and since u don't earn anything in private matches ur not getting ur moneys worth

4. theres no way to ration premium time, its all or nothing. I have quite a bit from my phoenix pack that I was saving. but my friends don't have the time to play every day, its maybe once a week, why should I burn 4 months of premium to play maybe 20 games with my friends?

5. this penalized new players who wont spend money right away, they will want to know if they like the game first. the training grounds and the tutorial are not enough to teach new players and they get slaughtered in public matches initially. private matches give older players a chance to train the newer ones so they don't get frustrated and quit right away like they tend to do now.