163 replies to this topic

[Eglar]

Eglar, on 05 May 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

ppcs have many advantages but this is not the situation you'd like to have a ppc.

Flaming oblivion, on 05 May 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

True a atlas cant out run a jagger one of the very few that cant. and the MG's wouldn't of worried me since he has to get through my armour before there really useful.... And i'd of had enough team mates close to never get into that situation to begin with .

Yes, dem teammates. Very not close. Much bads.

Edited by Eglar, 05 May 2014 - 09:57 PM.

[Flaming oblivion]

Eglar, on 05 May 2014 - 09:50 PM, said:

That atlas made no attempt to outrun the jager with his 90-effective-range-mgs...oh wait, he couldn't even if he wanted to.

Flaming oblivion, on 05 May 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

Because when your using a ppc/lrm/ anything with a minimum range , Your going to let something as slow as a jagger get under your min range .

I'm assuming you picked up on the obvious sarcasm and knew that I wasn't implying any body who valued not exploding would take in a sniper load out to point blank range to play with the full on brawlers?

[Eglar]

Flaming oblivion, on 05 May 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

I'm assuming you picked up on the obvious sarcasm and knew that I wasn't implying any body who valued not exploding would take in a sniper load out to point blank range to play with the full on brawlers?

It was obvious. I am pointing out that the Jun's Build was not fundamentally bad, especially the the given situations LLs are far superior than PPCs.

Regarding getting close: Nothing decent with LRMs and PPCs can outrun a decent brawling light.
Regarding the MGs and Armor: 6x MGs = 6.0 DPS on armor that's a equal to 2x AC5 hammering you.
Regarding more pin-point with Ac5s compared to MGs: on point blank, when circling someone (what the jager did) the AC5 pinpoint is exactly the same as the MG.

Edited by Eglar, 05 May 2014 - 10:13 PM.

[Durandal]

Flaming oblivion, on 05 May 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

True a atlas cant out run a jagger one of the very few that cant. and the MG's wouldn't of worried me since he has to get through my armour before there really useful.... And i'd of had enough team mates close to never get into that situation to begin with .He had a single ally close from what I saw with multiple enemy contacts focusing fire on him , where as him and his ally weren't trying to fall back and weren't even focus firing.

Eglar, on 05 May 2014 - 09:55 PM, said:

Yes, dem teammates. Very not close. Much bads.

That does, however, bring up a very good question that I wasn't going to mention (since it had nothing to do with the question of lasers)...but now that it comes up...look at the very start of that video, and check out the minimap. The Atlas is almost a full grid away from any teammates, with a good number of enemy between them. While a lot of teammates come running near the end, I'd be somewhat interested to see the unedited video that showed how and why that Atlas was all alone...which might also explain why Jun rages so much in-game.

[Flaming oblivion]

Eglar, on 05 May 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

It was obvious. I am pointing out that the Jun's Build was not fundamentally bad, especially the the given situations LLs are far superior than PPCs.

Regarding getting close: Nothing decent with LRMs and PPCs can outrun a decent brawling light.
Regarding the MGs and Armor: 6x MGs = 6.0 DPS on armor that's a equal to 2x AC5 hammering you.
Regarding more pin-point with Ac5s compared to MGs: on point blank, when circling someone (what the jager did) the AC5 pinpoint is exactly the same as the MG.

Only a light can compete with most lights speed wise but armour wise and fire power you have the upper hand . That said the light has to get near you first on a support sniper your either going to be behind your team at a safe distance but close enough to get support if ambushed. Or deep in cover with your team in positions covering your flanks . Just in my experience though .

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Jun Watarase, on 05 May 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

16:9 resolution. if its not 16:9 going into the encoder you will get bars coming out. also, what? just maximize the video.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 05 May 2014 - 10:36 PM.

[Monkeystador]

Well he just sucked at that situation. Firing the lasers with unlocked crosshairs just contributes to damage spread.
While he was looking at the emeny at htis slow speed, chain fire would have done the same job better...at least fire torso independently form the arms weapons to avoid ghost heat and awe full spread.
Secondly firing big alpha's.... just twist your torso away...

And let me add: i bet that jagger had his armor mostly to the front.

Edited by Monkeystador, 05 May 2014 - 10:36 PM.

[Koniving]

To the original poster: You've been terrible at your laser spread. Many blatant misses.

This is how you use lasers. Notice how much more effective being on target is? That poor Jager didn't even stand a chance. (If you're wondering on the cooling speed I'm sporting a lot of standard heatsinks).

You only need to watch the first 50 seconds; after that it's a complaint because the heat system is jacked up and how we'd have no need for ghost heat with a 30 threshold heat system.

For now you may consider removing your CT laser (it is NOT doing you any good) and replace the standard large lasers with Large Pulse Lasers, which are somewhat better for those who have difficulty focusing specific body parts. You will find significantly better results with LPLs.

If interested in more laser usage...

Spoiler

And more.

Edited by Koniving, 05 May 2014 - 10:42 PM.

[Thorqemada]

My Stats show that i do ~5,3 damage per hit with (ER)LL - 27 hits would result in 144 damage.

Contrary to my Lasers at 59% my Ballistics and Missiles average at 100% damage per hit realtive to the nominal damage value.

For the OP it depends on his stats and average per hit damage.

Edited by Thorqemada, 05 May 2014 - 10:53 PM.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

gotta keep the beam on for the full duration, lasers are crappy for brawling against autocannons or anything else that does burst. pulse are a bit better at it though. Trust me, two ac/20 rounds to support those lasers and that jager would have went down or at the very least been missing a side torso.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 05 May 2014 - 10:59 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Quick post, will post more later.

I was far away from the rest of my team because they had run off to chase a fast mech. I couldnt catch up, then when they bumped into the enemy force, i started firing LRMs in support. The jager and other enemy mechs noticed where the LRMs were coming from and rushed me, then the rest of my team hit them from behind.

I dont rage when i die because i made a silly mistake or it was in the middle of a proper firefight.

But as anyone who drops solo can tell you, quite often you end up with teammates that wont communicate with you and they will frequently run away to leave you to die, or just not shoot the enemy mechs because they are too admiring the scenery.

One of the top ways to die is to be in a slow mech, be in the middle of a blob of friendlies, then they run off to chase a light mech...then enemy mechs show up from around the corner and start shooting you because you are the slowest there. And instead of turning back to help you, your teammates continue to play chase the ECM spider.

Also when the enemy starts shooting...and instead of shooting back, suddenly you notice most of the friendlies around you turn and run....leaving you and the slow mechs there to die. This seems to happen most often on canyon when theres a premade of lights on your team. You go to one of the side points to cap, then suddenly your lights jump jet over the canyon walls and leave you facing the enemy lance.

[Eglar]

Flaming oblivion, on 05 May 2014 - 10:24 PM, said:

Only a light can compete with most lights speed wise but armour wise and fire power you have the upper hand . That said the light has to get near you first on a support sniper your either going to be behind your team at a safe distance but close enough to get support if ambushed. Or deep in cover with your team in positions covering your flanks . Just in my experience though .

You're stating very obvious things and making up far-fetched fictional scenarios.

I feel this is very off-topic but I'll give it a last shot just in an attempt to correct the flawed belief that PPCs are simply better weapons than Large Lasers. Starting with PPCs weight 2 tons more, have a far worse heat-to-damage translation (Large Lasers have the best ones compared to any other energy weapon) for a slightly better dps and damage-per-shot.

PPC Pin-point damage is only better if:

- You can shoot and twist to absorb damage, which the Atlas doesn't do for obvious reasons.

- You can shoot and hide behind cover while recharging, which the Atlas doesn't do because there's no cover.

- You can have a steady aim. The lasers that hit the side-torso, the centertorso, the arms, might aswell have been ppc-shots hitting these parts. The atlas pilot's aim was mediocre at such a close range, what makes you think that the ppc shots would always hit the same body part?

- It's accompanied by ballistics of similar Traveling speed

Edited by Eglar, 05 May 2014 - 11:05 PM.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

also, now that i got a good look at your build, you deserved that. What engine do you even have in there? reverse speed is 75% of forward speed right? so you have a 290 or something? whats amatter with you?

atlas are too slow to dictate range, a single lrm might be beneficial but they need teeth for close range fights.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 05 May 2014 - 11:07 PM.

[Wieland]

Jun Watarase, on 05 May 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Yea actually they can. You should have played EA MPBT 3025, even if you had 300+ ping you were on the exact same playing field as people who had sub 100 ping.

Ahh, the memories.

They should have never used the Cryengine. Nice graphics but lousy for multiplayer.
Ask the Star Citizen guys. They had to delay the dogfight module for half a year because of the crappy multiplayer support.

And HSR. Hit detection is broke since they came up with that shit. Before it i could easily hit a light with an ac20. Now i am happy when a laser actually hits.

[Pjwned]

Jun Watarase, on 05 May 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

Quick post, will post more later.

I was far away from the rest of my team because they had run off to chase a fast mech. I couldnt catch up, then when they bumped into the enemy force, i started firing LRMs in support. The jager and other enemy mechs noticed where the LRMs were coming from and rushed me, then the rest of my team hit them from behind.

I dont rage when i die because i made a silly mistake or it was in the middle of a proper firefight.

But as anyone who drops solo can tell you, quite often you end up with teammates that wont communicate with you and they will frequently run away to leave you to die, or just not shoot the enemy mechs because they are too admiring the scenery.

One of the top ways to die is to be in a slow mech, be in the middle of a blob of friendlies, then they run off to chase a light mech...then enemy mechs show up from around the corner and start shooting you because you are the slowest there. And instead of turning back to help you, your teammates continue to play chase the ECM spider.

Also when the enemy starts shooting...and instead of shooting back, suddenly you notice most of the friendlies around you turn and run....leaving you and the slow mechs there to die. This seems to happen most often on canyon when theres a premade of lights on your team. You go to one of the side points to cap, then suddenly your lights jump jet over the canyon walls and leave you facing the enemy lance.

I do know how that is, that and the extreme grinding involved with buying (and playing) heavier mechs is why I tend to never run anything heavier than 55 tons.

[Fringe]

You quite clearly couldn't hit the broadside of a Jager, although I'm impressed that you stay connected long enough to try and fail. Thanks for posting a video proving it. No one believes you actually play.

Jun Watarase, on 05 May 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

Perhaps you would like to try playing the game at 200 ms + ping and see if your lasers still work exactly the same...

When on wireless my ping is worse and my lasers still work the same. Perhaps 'Jun Lazers' work differently...

Jun Watarase, on 05 May 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Yea actually they can. You should have played EA MPBT 3025, even if you had 300+ ping you were on the exact same playing field as people who had sub 100 ping.

No, that wasn't how 3025 worked AT ALL. I played 3025 with you. You were junning even back then - or simply refused to drop at all. Kurita 'Kourage' at its finest!

Jun Watarase, on 05 May 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

And here i was wondering how long it would be before we got to "You are actually having a discussion instead of simply saying yes to everything?! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!".

This is not a discussion; this is you junjacking the forums again. How did you convince [REDACTED]? Big mistake. BIG MISTAKE. [REDACTED]

Lukoi, on 05 May 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

Jun routinely rages in chat as well about how bad the team is etc in my experience.

Yes, yes he does. With great frequency unfortunately. Never his fault, as this video proves.

Jun Watarase, on 05 May 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

I dont rage when i die because i made a silly mistake or it was in the middle of a proper firefight.

Yes, yes you do. With great frequency unfortunately. Never your fault, as this video proves.

Stop junning and start learning to play. Your laser problems will clear right up.

Edited by Dakkath, 06 May 2014 - 03:35 PM.
Redacted some bits, COC.

[3rdworld]

Also if you shoot a destroyed section, you only transfer half the damage. So those laser shots that hit his LT after you blew it off, only do half damange to his CT.

Personally I use 3LLs in alpha all the time. It is only 3.53 more heat. That being said you were being bum rushed on a hot map and should have fired them separately. Specifically in the instances when you were unable to hit with your torso laser. Also stop face tanking when you are waiting for CDs, Give him something other than your CT to shoot.

Edited by 3rdworld, 06 May 2014 - 06:05 AM.

[mogs01gt]

That video simply shows how underpowered Lasers are compared to ballistics.

Edited by mogs01gt, 07 May 2014 - 06:30 AM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Stalker is also at least twice as hard to kill since the patch. Time to dust off the old Jagger and go Atlas hunting:)

As for PPC vs Large Laser. Having tried both I do a lot more damage per match with PPCs.

Edited by 911 Inside Job, 06 May 2014 - 06:54 AM.

[Ultimax]

Jun Watarase, on 05 May 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

I was far away from the rest of my team because they had run off to chase a fast mech. I couldnt catch up, then when they bumped into the enemy force, i started firing LRMs in support. The jager and other enemy mechs noticed where the LRMs were coming from and rushed me, then the rest of my team hit them from behind.

I'm not trying to bash you, I've made this mistake a few times.

Unless you are a very fast, long range support mech - you do not engage the enemy and give away your position when you are alone.

So you tried to help the team, but unfortunately it gave away your position and you were forced to play a point blank range fire fight vs. a faster, most likely STD engine, brawl range Jager.

He capitalized on your slower speed, your slower torso twisting ability and cut off your primary weapons while simultaneously spreading the damage you tried to do to him.


So while your intention to help the team was good, it was a tactical mistake.

Jun Watarase, on 05 May 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

But as anyone who drops solo can tell you, quite often you end up with teammates that wont communicate with you and they will frequently run away to leave you to die, or just not shoot the enemy mechs because they are too admiring the scenery.

This is also part of the issue.

You are playing a, relatively slow, easy to isolate support build.

Instead of taking a 100 ton assault mech and functioning as a spearhead or mid/late game threat, you are solo dropping as a LRM heavy support build.


Your build is better suited to dropping with Lance mates who aren't going to desert you because they saw a single light, etc.


When I drop in an Atlas my bare minimum on engine is a 325 STD, with a 340 or 350 if I can squeeze it into the build.

I tend to build for mid/short range engagements - I sometimes take some LRMs but don't take so many that being rushed means that roughly half of my weapons are no longer usable. (3x LRM 5s with no artemis is a pretty low tonnage way to add ranged, suppressive fire that can soften opponents and doesn't require you to completely leave cover.)

Lastly, I think you're in the D? Is that right?

If so, drop the CT LLAs and switch to 2x MLAS. Pick up some tonnage to invest elsewhere.

You will be very hard pressed to get that LLAS onto targets that aren't directly in front of you and at brawl range the MLAS are more efficient damage/heat for their tonnage requirement.


Just some food for thought.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 06 May 2014 - 06:56 AM.