47 replies to this topic

[YueFei]

Ajantise, on 22 May 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

If they are smart, they use the two boat tactic, 200m apart. You go for one and the other kills you. If they don´t kill you on approach.

Like I said, you never want to be in someone's crosshairs for too long, even if that guy has no weapons that can hurt you. Because while he has a target lock on you, all of *his* teammates (your enemies) have a lock on *you*, too. And if they have nothing else better to do, they'll all be either stomping their way towards you to cave your face in, or they'll be lobbing LRMs at you.

Unless you feel like just blowing off steam, being lazy, etc., don't just run in there.

You wouldn't just turn a corner and see 6 guys with direct-fire weapons and just plunge in there by yourself, would you? Even if they weren't looking in your direction? You'd step from cover, shoot one of them, and then dive back into cover.

Why should it be any different when engaging someone that has LRMs?

[Ajantise]

YueFei, on 22 May 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Like I said, you never want to be in someone's crosshairs for too long, even if that guy has no weapons that can hurt you. Because while he has a target lock on you, all of *his* teammates (your enemies) have a lock on *you*, too. And if they have nothing else better to do, they'll all be either stomping their way towards you to cave your face in, or they'll be lobbing LRMs at you.

Unless you feel like just blowing off steam, being lazy, etc., don't just run in there.

You wouldn't just turn a corner and see 6 guys with direct-fire weapons and just plunge in there by yourself, would you? Even if they weren't looking in your direction? You'd step from cover, shoot one of them, and then dive back into cover.

Why should it be any different when engaging someone that has LRMs?

Because if they have LOS weapons no one has the advantage and i can shoot wit 3 mechs and fight. But now LRM will kill you in 3 sec. It is easy to hide from LOS weapons but from LRM you need a lot more cover. Basically you have to french kiss that building or rock, and that is simply not hygienic or fun...

[YueFei]

Ajantise, on 22 May 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

Because if they have LOS weapons no one has the advantage and i can shoot wit 3 mechs and fight. But now LRM will kill you in 3 sec. It is easy to hide from LOS weapons but from LRM you need a lot more cover. Basically you have to french kiss that building or rock, and that is simply not hygienic or fun...

LRMs also require line-of-sight, or UAV, or Narc. If the enemy doesn't see you, he can't lock on.

Like I said, you wouldn't dance around in full view of enemies sporting line-of-sight weapons, right? If you expose yourself to 3 enemy mechs simultaneously, and those enemy mechs are piloted by folks with good aim? And you're driving a Medium mech? Very possible to lose a shoulder in 1 shot, if 2 out of 3 of them hit the same shoulder with 30+ point pin-point alpha strikes.

With LRMs? Considering how spread-out the damage is, and the requirement to target you and spend a moment locking on, and then another several seconds trying to hold that lock while the missiles home in on you.... if you can't break LRM lock against an LRM boat 1v1, you wouldn't stand a chance of avoiding fire from direct-fire builds. It may have *seemed* like you could survive longer against direct fire builds while running around in the open, but that's only because you've been fighting people who either can't aim very well, or did not build their mechs to be that dangerous.

You're clearly not here to learn, despite the opening post being disguised as a request for help and tips. Your'e only here to complain.

Look at the tournament matches that have happened lately. Notice the complete lack of LRMs in most matches? If LRMs are such an insurmountable weapon system, why didn't more of these teams use them? Could it be that skilled players have to learned how to counter LRMs or mitigate their damage?

[Koniks]

Ajantise, on 22 May 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

If they are smart, they use the two boat tactic, 200m apart. You go for one and the other kills you. If they don´t kill you on approach.

If they're only 200m apart, then you'll just get between them and take down one, then the other, while being within minimum range for both. If they're 360m+ apart, then you'll facehug one to keep it between you and the other missileboat. You'll have to be quick to avoid having your kill stolen by friendly fire.

Edited by Mizeur, 22 May 2014 - 10:21 PM.

[Errant Variable]

-Bring a combat light, wide flank, then start chewing heels off. Bonus points for stripping someone's back armor then maneuvering things so their buddy LRMs them in the back as they try to keep strong armor towards you (tough, but I've done it. Used to be easier with the flat LRM trajectories.)
-Bring pretty much anything with a little speed and an ERPPC or two. Hide behind rocks, duck out, smack them from 500m+, hide and relocate. Either you attract supporting mechs (who are no longer part of the main fight) and die, or the LRM boat has to hide from your fire and becomes ineffective, or you pop a LRM boat. Or you can kite whoever came after you back into the main battle line and laugh as they burn.
-Be better at LRMWarrior than they are. (I'm not, but I can attest that many people have used this exact tactic against me)
-Drive a comedy build and enjoy yourself.

[Ajantise]

YueFei, on 22 May 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

You're clearly not here to learn, despite the opening post being disguised as a request for help and tips. Your'e only here to complain.

How do you say in english, i am at a loss? I haven´t played in a month so i just wanted to know is there something new. 333 MM is a hope for me, that is new information. Thanks everybody that tried to help. I dont want to ruin the game for anybody, i am desperate. I loved this game and played 50 matches a day, but now i just don´t have the wish to play. I will try to play with the advice again. Maybe it will come to me ;-).

ps. first i will rebuild all 11 of my mechs

Edited by Ajantise, 22 May 2014 - 11:07 PM.

[Grimmrog]

Hug him below 180m

[Grayblue]

One tactic that is very effective for me:

Pick a spot where they have to expose themselves to approach you, then snipe from beyond 1000m.

Pick off spotters.

Of course, you need a terrain that allows this.


When they irritate me enough, I sometimes pull out my Jager and go "Your lurm spam vs. my AC spam. Let's see who die first! I don't care if I get destroyed as long as you won't survive the game either!"

Edited by Grayblue, 22 May 2014 - 11:48 PM.

[Sky Hawk]

I don't go closer than 1000 m, and with my ERLL/Gauss/ERPPC I ask him nicely, to keep the distance too...

[Magna Canus]

YueFei, on 22 May 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

Keep in mind that even if you *do* manage to isolate a single LRM boat, as soon as he targets you, all his other buddies, even if they are badly positioned and far away, can lock on with their own LRMs and fire upon you. Now, I sometimes just give in to the temptation to badly-brawl someone and circle-strafe and keep my fingers mashed on the firing buttons.... it's FUN! But it's not smart. Step from cover, shoot, step back into cover to break line-of-sight.

It also helps to use LRM boat you are fighting as cover vs. other enemy incoming missiles. At least twice I managed to get my enemies to TK their buddy with LRMs. Since I am on the opposite side of the incomming LRMs and the boat I am fighting is facing me he has his back turned to the incoming LRMs, making it that much more likely that they will get TKed.

[Magna Canus]

Modo44, on 22 May 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

Play more Conquest. Boats are easier to deal with when the enemy team is not all in one blob. Other than that, the basics are clear: AMS, cover, death hugs. Remember also that meta works against LRMs. Good jump snipers eat LRM boats for lunch because you can go up and fire before eating missiles.

The opposite is true as well. LRMs can eat up Meta-mechs when equipped properly with Artemis/TAG/Adv.Target decay. It works like this: poptart fires up the JJs and I see his head cresting. He needs to gain an altitude where he can "shoot from the hip" since the ACs are low slung. By the time he is up and ready to fire I have a lock and my LRMs are on the way already. I also have time to torso twist most of the time and tr to catch his AC/PPC on the arms instead of ST/CT. Target decay ensures that within the standard medium engagement range for tards (around 500m) that my missiles will still be locked and hit. Tards will always try to stay at range which works to the advantage of LRMs.

[Modo44]

Magnakanus, on 23 May 2014 - 01:19 AM, said:

The opposite is true as well. LRMs can eat up Meta-mechs when equipped properly with Artemis/TAG/Adv.Target decay.

They could when they were super fast. If you do shallow jumps, the danger is much higher for the LRM boat than for the jump-sniper.

[Magna Canus]

Ajantise, on 22 May 2014 - 10:46 PM, said:

How do you say in english, i am at a loss? I haven´t played in a month so i just wanted to know is there something new. 333 MM is a hope for me, that is new information. Thanks everybody that tried to help. I dont want to ruin the game for anybody, i am desperate. I loved this game and played 50 matches a day, but now i just don´t have the wish to play. I will try to play with the advice again. Maybe it will come to me ;-).

ps. first i will rebuild all 11 of my mechs

Hey Ajantise, Serbia is pretty close to my local time zone (GMT +1), so if you need more direct assistance and can hop on Teamspeak for a while then send me a friend invite and we can do some drops together. No need to join any units, just friendly community aid.

[Magna Canus]

Modo44, on 23 May 2014 - 01:21 AM, said:

They could when they were super fast. If you do shallow jumps, the danger is much higher for the LRM boat than for the jump-sniper.

Depends on the cover the jump-sniper is using. If it is low enough that he can snipe with shallow jumps then it won't protect him from LRM fire that much. Artemis/TAG gives you a lock pretty quickly and if you begin blind firing before lock the already fired missiles may hit due to good aim or pick up on the lock before they reach the target. Either way, the sniper has no idea if the LRM has a lock or not, they will still get the missile warning if he is in danger of being hit.

When playing an LRM mech I tend to play a bit differently than your standard "Spam Stalker" and the ilk. I often find myself between 200m and 500m getting my own locks, TAGing and direct firing. Indirect fire only comes into question when I can't get close enough fast enough for LOS.

Most will agree that you waste a lot of missiles with indirect fire which means that they need to bring a lot of ammo to compensate if they want to use indirect fire. Ammo in the legs goes last and most boats have 2 tons in each of the legs which means that if you leg a boat you have a chance of doing some serious damage with an ammo explosion. Even if not and you have to disengage you still leave the boat unable to get into a better position of change the angle of their missile barrage.

[Blood Rose]

Get within minimum range and he is almost defenceless. Dance around in the open at 200M+ and you are going to suffer.
Try an AMS and useing cover. I find they both work.
In addition when you are in cover turn around 60-90 degrees and move at full stride in that direction. Usually the missiles will swoop harmlessly past you.

[SaltBeef]

LRMS are great but not the greatest I have fired tens of tens of thousands of them and hit about 30% and that is with artemis, 27% with out artemis. But I dont use tag ALL of the time and only use narcs when a teamate brings them and spots with em. I love it when pugs bring narcs. NARC bonus needs to be alot bigger than it is to encourage NARC use!. The spotter is hanging his arse out there for yah he should get a decent bonus, QUIAFF!
LRMs have definately put light mechs in thier place and made it tougher to be a poptart / light pilot as it should be. Do not see to many venturing out across tourmalene unless they want a speedy LRM death if you make it past the LRM rush and into the streak rush you are doing darn good as a light pilot. Lights gotta be super sneaky scared like a squirrel and attack only when you know you have a quick exit.

Edited by SaltBeef, 23 May 2014 - 10:04 AM.

[Modo44]

Magnakanus, on 23 May 2014 - 01:37 AM, said:

Depends on the cover the jump-sniper is using. If it is low enough that he can snipe with shallow jumps then it won't protect him from LRM fire that much. Artemis/TAG gives you a lock pretty quickly and if you begin blind firing before lock the already fired missiles may hit due to good aim or pick up on the lock before they reach the target. Either way, the sniper has no idea if the LRM has a lock or not, they will still get the missile warning if he is in danger of being hit.

When playing an LRM mech I tend to play a bit differently than your standard "Spam Stalker" and the ilk. I often find myself between 200m and 500m getting my own locks, TAGing and direct firing. Indirect fire only comes into question when I can't get close enough fast enough for LOS.

I would still call it a skill differentiator rather than a weapon systems differentiator. The good jump snipers will either stay far away to drop behind cover safely, or walk close enough to give the boat a death hug. There is a reason why XL Victors are popular -- mobility.

Edited by Modo44, 23 May 2014 - 01:54 AM.

[Karmen Baric]

LRMS for what they are, are still overpowered in PUG games where ECM is never guranteed, especially on maps like Caustic.
If you are in a Assualt mech, once locked on such maps you are often mowed down by LRMS & if not outright killed, have so much damage done that you are no longer effective. Ive decided if im in my Banshee to simply go out of bounds and TK myself rather than play that map with no ECM. As the only other option is to sit at base, and then the other team doesnt attack and 15 mins later game ends or your team is slaughtered if they dont follow suite.
LRMS will go over and arround many rocks anyway, on other maps too, so cover isnt always directly where you are despite many people saying take cover. Powering down also isnt helpfull as you still get hit by the 100 incoming missiles and when you pweor up you get retargetted and get more LRM spam. Often sitting at base is the way to go to counter LRM teams with heavy brawlers covering them, but you dont know that untill too late often on maps like Caustic & the "large snow map". And if you are NARCD just consider yourself dead in a heavy/ assualt on these maps if youve moved past the base.
So disconnecting and getting another map is a great choice imo.

[Magna Canus]

Modo44, on 23 May 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

I would still call it a skill differentiator rather than a weapon systems differentiator. The good jump snipers will either stay far away to drop behind cover safely, or walk close enough to give the boat a death hug. There is a reason why XL Victors are popular -- mobility.

Oh yes, no doubt that it is a skill difference. I kind of went off on a tactics-talk-tangent there. LOL

It all comes down to how you handle your mech with your preferred play style.

Gotta love those XL Victors though, that RT is just soooo juicy.

[Wrathful-Khan]

I got so pissed with the lack of ECM in PUGs that I decided to bring my own. I do my best to try and cover as many team mates as possible while doing the dirty work spotting up front and making fast strikes into hotzones. (Cicada-3M) {as opposed to the lone ninja behind enemy lines style ECM like a spider}

Edited by Indiandream, 23 May 2014 - 07:10 AM.