37 replies to this topic

[ChapeL]

I think you are expecting too much from Community Warfare. All we'll get to do is drop with our clan/faction mates and influence the color of the map through our wins and losses.

[Oethe]

Marack Drock, on 05 June 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Well PGI said Lore is pretty much gone with Community Warfare. So we as the players can make a new History.

So I was thinking... What if we as Clan Wolf prevented Ulric's death and thus our Wolf Clan the Chosen ones of Kerensky will not be set through the Refusal War or at least we keep ourselves from falling into Vlad's hands. We could change the course of the war. We could be ilClan and fulfill Kerensky's vision.

Thoughts.

In lore we are ilClan though it is after Vlad's Crusaders come back to the Inner Sphere and merge with Wolf-in-Exile.

So if anything this gives other clans a chance to become ilClan in Community Warfare.

[MalodorousMonkey]

They said we'd be able to change lore, but we don't know to what degree we'd be able to change it. Heck, we don't even know if they'll deliver at all come August. I mean, I know it's said all the time here on the forums, but PGI doesn't have the best track record for delivering what they say they're going to deliver. And with the rate at which they've been coming out with new content, I'm trying not to expect much from Community Warfare this August/Fall.

We'll probably just get the bare-bones basics of CW, like we did with U.I. 2.0. Whether or not we get extra development in CW (or U.I. 2.0, for that matter) after the fact remains to be seen.

Edited by MalodorousMonkey, 05 June 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[_Comrade_]

Marack Drock, on 05 June 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Well PGI said Lore is pretty much gone with Community Warfare. So we as the players can make a new History.

So I was thinking... What if we as Clan Wolf prevented Ulric's death and thus our Wolf Clan the Chosen ones of Kerensky will not be set through the Refusal War or at least we keep ourselves from falling into Vlad's hands. We could change the course of the war. We could be ilClan and fulfill Kerensky's vision.

Thoughts.

The wolves be Ilclan??....not going to happen. The wolves can't stop the fury of the falcon

[BigTaeng]

Marack Drock, on 05 June 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

... Yeah... Cause your best people can only kill ours when they dishonorably kill them with missile boats or they are 82 years old.

Just remember who conquered the most worlds, and who lost 2 Galaxies to us in Refusal.

You talk about changing lore, yet you cling to the novels just because the Wolves were written as the best Clan. So tell me, why did you choose Clan Wolf? Is it because you like bragging and boasting about things you had no hand in whatsoever?

Also, if killing Natasha Kerensky was meaningless because she was so old, why was she your Khan and not in a solhama unit?

Edited by BigTaeng, 05 June 2014 - 11:51 AM.

[Raigner]

BigTaeng, on 05 June 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

You talk about changing lore, yet you cling to the novels just because the Wolves were written as the best Clan. So tell me, why did you choose Clan Wolf? Is it because you like bragging and boasting about things you had no hand in whatsoever?

Also, if killing Natasha Kerensky was meaningless because she was so old, why was she your Khan and not in a solhama unit?

Because so long as you can continue to prove that age dose not impair your skill as a warrior nor your ability to command then you can avoid going to a Solhama unit for as long as you are able to continue to do so, and lets not forget that he black widow was arguably the most deadly clan warrior to ever set foot in clan space.

and the novels will always be the history of battletech, in case you all forgot witch i fill you do sometime, ALL mechwarrior games are considered non cannon including MWO.

AS sorced by statements from FASA, Wizkids CGL, and TOPPS, mostly because they own the lore but Microsoft still owns the license for the games.

Edited by raigner, 05 June 2014 - 12:37 PM.

[BigTaeng]

raigner, on 05 June 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

Because so long as you can continue to prove that age dose not impair your skill as a warrior nor your ability to command then you can avoid going to a Solhama unit for as long as you are able to continue to do so, and lets not forget that he black widow was arguably the most deadly clan warrior to ever set foot in clan space.

That is my point, raigner. Natasha Kerensky was a Khan, not relegated to solhama duty. So defeating her in combat is still a worthy accomplishment, quiaff? But it is funny that when I bring up the fact that she was killed by a warrior without a Bloodname then Marack Drock's excuse seems to be, "oh, that means nothing because Natasha was old."

Edited by BigTaeng, 05 June 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[BigTaeng]

raigner, on 05 June 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

and the novels will always be the history of battletech, in case you all forgot witch i fill you do sometime, ALL mechwarrior games are considered non cannon including MWO.

I am not disputing that. You of all people should understand though, how silly it is to call a Clan a bunch of losers just because of something that happened in the books. I am sure we chose our Clans because of what their ideals and what they represent, not necessarily how effective they were in the overall storyline.

So to say one Clan is better just because the writers decided they destroyed so many 'Mechs or won so many worlds is meaningless.

[Grey Black]

BigTaeng, on 05 June 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

That is my point, raigner. Natasha Kerensky was a Khan, not relegated to solhama duty. So defeating her in combat is still a worthy accomplishment, quiaff? But it is funny that when I bring up the fact that she was killed by a warrior without a Bloodname then Marack Drock's excuse seems to be, "oh, that means nothing because Natasha was old."

Raigner, this is a valid point. We simply cannot retort that Natasha [REDACTED] Kerensky was not killed by a warrior without a bloodname whom was likely destined for a Solahma unit had she not been injured. The most VALID retort to this is that Elias Crichell and Vandervahn Chistu were both slain by the same Wolf warrior without a bloodname, namely Vlad of the Ward bloodline (He did not have his bloodname yet, if I recall correctly). So, what say you the more significant accomplishment is? Killing a single Khan on the field of battle through a raw fluke of luck, or killing TWO Khans within minutes of each other?

EDIT: I had some details wrong. Vlad did, in fact, kill both Elias Crichell and Vandervahn Chistu, but in separate moments. Vandervahn Chistu was a Trial of Refusal based on the fact that he had dishonorably slew former ilKhan Ulric Kerensky, earning him the bloodname of Ward. However, after that, Vlad killed Elias Crichell in combat refusing the latter's election to ilKhan. Apologies.

Edited by Grey Black, 05 June 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Again....nobody here did any of the feats they crow about so it is all a fairly moot point.

BT you might find it easier to just put revisionist historians and those with clear agendas to promote on ignore. It certainly helps me paw through the threads that might be worth addressing and bypass the poor attempts to promote a singular viewpoint (that again I note is based often on characters and not on the efforts of some people who post).

[Gyrok]

BigTaeng, on 05 June 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

You talk about changing lore, yet you cling to the novels just because the Wolves were written as the best Clan. So tell me, why did you choose Clan Wolf? Is it because you like bragging and boasting about things you had no hand in whatsoever?

Also, if killing Natasha Kerensky was meaningless because she was so old, why was she your Khan and not in a solhama unit?

Marack Drock, on 05 June 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

I personally think she should have been in a Solhama unit because of her age but I also understand that she was a very wise leader. The reason I think she was killed was cause she was old and by then her reflexes had probably slow a ton.

Anyways, I will cling to these novels until history changes, because right now those Novels are still the history of BT.

Might I remind both of you that she defeated 4 people in a circle of equals during a Trial of Position to re-enter Clan Wolf at age 70, after having served with the Wolf's Dragoons for quite some length and was granted the rank of Star Colonel via ToP at age 70.

One of only 2 mechwarriors to have ever defeated 4 in a ToP, and the only one to do it at an age greater than 30...(which she was more than 40 years past...)

Edited by Gyrok, 05 June 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[Azalie]

All of this is moot if we Rasalhagians rally to the defense of Rasalhague. Here is the simplest way to affect the ilkhan....for if the battle goes well and is won the royalty will not be evacuated and Tyra Miraborg will not leave to escourt them. With Tyra on Rasalhague she will not be there to fly her aerofighter into the bridge of the Dire Wolf....and ilkhan Leo Showers will live!

Though that would not be in our best interests.

[BigTaeng]

Grey Black, on 05 June 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

So, what say you the more significant accomplishment is? Killing a single Khan on the field of battle through a raw fluke of luck, or killing TWO Khans within minutes of each other?

Well, it was not within minutes of each other. Vlad killed Chistu during his Trial of Refusal over the absorption of the Wolves. Crichell was not killed until the Grand Council vote a couple of weeks later. I will be one of the first to admit the Jade Falcon Khans were weak and had nowhere near the fame, notoriety and skill that Natasha Kerensky had. Vlad was still in his prime, not an aging warrior like Joanna, and he did end up winning a bloodname and became Khan. Joanna did neither.

It is pointless arguing about lore because Stackpole clearly loved the Wolves the most. He got to put his own spin on the deaths of Chistu and Crichell. The series creators set the Wolves up for victory and the other Clans for defeat. In truth, Vlad may have done the Falcons a favor since this allowed Marthe Pryde to rise and lead Clan Jade Falcon back among the top Clans with her vision, shrewdness, and ferocity.

The fact we lost so much during Operation Revival and the War of Refusal does not mean we are losers though. The Falcons rebuilt and persevered.

Gyrok, on 05 June 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Might I remind both of you that she defeated 4 people in a circle of equals during a Trial of Position to re-enter Clan Wolf at age 70, after having served with the Wolf's Dragoons for quite some length and was granted the rank of Star Colonel via ToP at age 70.

One of only 2 mechwarriors to have ever defeated 4 in a ToP, and the only one to do it at an age greater than 30...(which she was more than 40 years past...)

I think you are missing my point, Gyrok. I am not disputing that Natasha Kerensky was a legend. It is that fact which makes Joanna's victory over the Khan a significant accomplishment. However, Marack is trying to say it was not that big a deal because Natasha was old.

[Raigner]

BigTaeng, on 05 June 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

I am not disputing that. You of all people should understand though, how silly it is to call a Clan a bunch of losers just because of something that happened in the books. I am sure we chose our Clans because of what their ideals and what they represent, not necessarily how effective they were in the overall storyline.

So to say one Clan is better just because the writers decided they destroyed so many 'Mechs or won so many worlds is meaningless.

Many great points have been made here, and this is one of the most intellectually stimulating discussions I have had in a while on the MWO forums, but Star Colonel BigTaeng has raised the penultimate point. We all chose are clan because they mean something to us, whether its the story's of the wolves sense of justice, and standing up for what is right, or the cleverness and honor of there warriors. The Jade Falcons upholding there nobility and the traditions of the clans in the face less noble times, Always pulling victory from defeat more times then can be counted. or the Smoke Jaguars final vicious and bloody stand against there own destruction, facing there fate as warriors to the last.

These story's inspire us to be clanners, but there not who we are. The lore ultimately is inconsequential, I have not met many wolves who declare themselves as such for there plot armor or that they had great mechs. The clans themselves mean something to each of us, there philosophy's, there ideals, how they compose themselves in the galaxy resonates with us.
I have known a few clanners in real life, and in some small way we live that life even outside the confines of the games, and books.

I am smoke jaguar because they were my first introduction to the clans they were my window into there world, though I do not agree with everything the jags have done, and I believe that they made there bed with there hubris, in fiction terms, the clan still shaped me growing up. I walk a little taller, I face challenges head on, I take pride in what I do, and who I am. I own my failures as much as I own my victory's, and I destroy any threat to me or my kin quickly and ruthlessly.

My own brother refuses to allow anybody to to speak a contraction in his presence, and always corrects anybody that dose not speak formally, he who claims the name Wolf has never backed away from a challenge, and never fought dishonorably. Not in the world of games, nor in real life. Clan wolf changed him, and the surname wolf he adds to every username means more to him than any name his family could give him. I am sure deep down your clan has changed you too and your bloodname gives you equal pride.

Yes some of us joined the clans because they were OP or cool, but a lot of us older players stuck around and the clans mean something more then that. It is a way of life. It may not be a better life, or a better society, but it is undeniable that stepping in the footprints of a clan warrior, however briefly has shown us a world of how to be a better person, a stronger person however small. To never give up, To treat others with honor. For as the clans they take all the hardships of the galaxy, each and every one of them, not just the big 4. They manage to stand strong as who they are in the face on undefeatable forces, and insurmountable odds.

I have been with the Smoke Jaguars for almost 20 years, and I will till the day I die. The lore is not what makes a clan, nor is it the writers, or the game developers. We are the clans! We carry the torch! Well past the closing of FASA's doors. We are still here, and WE are still CLAN!

Edited by raigner, 05 June 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[Naglinator]

Maybe we can change history and kill the traitor Ulric EARLIER so that clan wolf isn't destroyed in the refusal war and we can keep invading the IS

[Naglinator]

What gave it away? That jackass destroys the clan way of living.

[Raigner]

And thus I believe my point was lost...sigh.

[Destructicus]

Marack Drock, on 05 June 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

I play Wolf cause they made Timber Wolf

Stopped reading here
filthy casual

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I doubt we will be able to change history much. Essentially you have two options. Allow the history to be changed or ensure that all the big well known battles occur.

I imagine most of it would be taking of inconsequential planets with occasional events centered around famous battles.

Edited by Rouken, 05 June 2014 - 06:49 PM.

[Zerberus]

Marack Drock, on 05 June 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

They said you guys would be able to stop the war in its tracks. That alone changes the entire course of the story. What if Clan Wolf won at Tukayyid and Terra? If you guys can change the course of the war, so could we.

We DID win at Tukkayid, if the dumbass Crusaders hadn`t gotten caught up in an asinine (albeit traditional) "I wanno go first" bidding war and thereby bid themselves right out of their own battlefield effectiveness, then the Star League would have been reformed in 3052....