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Clan And Is Weapon Update - Feedback


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#1 Paul Inouye

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:31 PM

Feedback on the Clan and IS Weapon Update can go here.

Spoiler


#2 FupDup

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:41 PM

Gauss: Posted Image Limit? Lel.

ERPPC: But what about muh precious Adder... :P

Lurms: Technical difficulties, whatever.

#3 Nightsong

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:46 PM

Heh. Well the Gauss Rifles actually have a hint of justification for them if you ever read the Blood of Kerensky books (I saw the above posting and the first thing I thought was Vlad's Executioner doing a 1-2 on his GRs. Phelan thought he was being a sadist before he cottoned onto the power issue.). LRM difficulties, a technical issue, I can see it. I really can't wait till LB-X cannons get fixed though. ALways loved those. As for Clan Standard ACs, I am reminded of the early prints of TRO:3050. They actually mentioned Clan Standard ACs/Lasers, but were they ever used by the writers?

#4 Deathlike

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:47 PM

While tri-Gauss Ilyas get an indirect nerf (they are already glass cannons as they are), the ERPPC is still "perfect" for the FLD meta.

LRMs... why does it feel like you did this all at the last minute?

#5 Scratx

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:49 PM

The Gauss Rifle nerf barely affects mechs currently deployed but eliminates particularly crazy builds like 45-60 damage PPFLD gauss possible on Dire Wolf. Seems good.

The LB/AC thing, we'll deal with it while you guys figure out how to reengineer the weapons to allow selectable ammunition, I guess. Not huge.

LRMs... meh, I suspect firing them under 180 isn't going to provide the results most people likely want out of it anyway due to the exponential nature. We'll deal with it while you get that right.

Side note, though I suspect I know the answer, will the IS LB10 ever get a slug munition? I'm aware it'd invalidate the AC10... but I'm wondering, if it on firing slugs acts like a clan LB and fires multiple slugs while the regular AC10 remains single shell FLD, wouldn't it mean the AC10 remains a valid option?


Oh, and CERPPC might be too powerful (especially since it costs less crits and tons) unless it either generates higher heat or has longer cooldowns. Or both.

Edited by Scratx, 07 June 2014 - 08:51 PM.


#6 Lightfoot

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:53 PM

The ERPPC is too hot at 15 heat for DHS 1.4 to dissapate. I think if you ask most players the consensus is one is all you can run without overheating all the time. So most players will currently take one PPC and one ERPPC. The Clans do not have that option and the Masakari of course carries 4 Clan ERPPCs. I see some big problems since I have never been able to get the stock AWS-9M to work in combat against the cool rapid-fire-on-recharge Autocannons that populate MWO matches.

#7 Koniving

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:55 PM

So, ultimately every concept, every idea, everything ever spouted about ways to help reduce pinpoint damage and de-meta the game for the Inner sphere to develop a fun experience for all... has been applied exclusively to the Clans.

Well, we won't have to worry about the Clans being overpowered. Even with the almighty targeting computer, they are effectively incapable of pinpoint with anything except the Gauss Rifle. (That's not a bad thing... but it doesn't change Inner Sphere essentially outclassing everything. Is their pinpoint part of the balance?)

#8 Nothing Whatsoever

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:57 PM

Interesting, looking forward to how these elements play out in live matches.

#9 5th Fedcom Rat

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:57 PM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 07 June 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

Exact numbers will be released as the system goes into testing.


You haven't even started testing this version of Clan LRMs yet? What do you people do ALL day in Vancouver???

#10 Imperius

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 08:59 PM

Paul for once I cant be mad... You've listened to feed back the ER-PPC balance is awesome!

Thank you! Very much :P

#11 Redshift2k5

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:00 PM

i don't really expect the stock Masakari with 4x ERPPC will run very well; Two ERPPC and a pair fo ERLL or ERLPL, though, could be awesome. It will also have tons of superior range and additional view/sensor/weapon range with it's gigantic targeting computer. (or trade it for a smaller TC and some extra heatsinks)

I find it strange you guys can't get the LRMs to work in time, a bit disappointed here.

#12 BigTaeng

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:10 PM

Ironically Clan pinpoint damage will be mitigated while IS pinpoint damage will be even deadlier against Clan 'Mechs because of their weak armor values.

It seems PGI wants to stop this invasion before it even starts.

#13 Sephlock

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:16 PM



Quote

This mechanic will also be carried over to the Inner Sphere version of the Gauss Rifle.


NO! NOT MY ILYA DAKKAMETS!

WHY, PGI, WHY?!

Quote

The Clan AutoCannon/2 will fire a 2 round volley with each slug doing 1 damage for a total of 2 damage


There is going to be so much crying about impulse values, I smell an overnerf coming...

Quote

Clan LRMs will have ramping damage in the 0-180 meter range.


So that settles it, there is no justice in the world.

Edited by Sephlock, 07 June 2014 - 09:34 PM.


#14 Gigastrike

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:18 PM

Glad to finally get confirmation on how Clan LBXs will function, and even gladder that they're going to function exactly how I wanted them to! :P

#15 Ultimax

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:19 PM

Quote

The Clan ER-PPC

The Clan ER-PPC will be spreading its damage across multiple components. As you may know, the Clan ER-PPC does 15 damage compared to the IS PPC doing 10. The extra 5 damage will be split to 2 adjacent components at 2.5 damage each. For example, if you hit a 'Mech with the Clan ER-PPC in the center torso, 10 damage will be applied to the center torso and 2.5 damage will arc to the left and right torso. If you hit a component that does not have an adjacent component, the 2.5 damage will dissipate into nothing. An example of this is if the Clan ER-PPC hits an arm, 10 points of damage will be applied to the arm and 2.5 damage to that side's torso. The other 2.5 damage will be negated so total damage done on the shot is 12.5. Now it is understood that this has been a requested feature for the IS PPC for a long time, but this mechanic was needed to help curb the sheer OP power of the Clan ER-PPC to help us keep Clan tech somewhat in-line with the IS tech already in the game. When Clans go live, the IS PPC will behave as it does now with no changes. We will continue to watch what is happening on the battlefield and will make adjustments as needed afterwards.



Clan ER PPC can not be 15 heat to fire then, or not only will they be as unusable as IS ER PPCs - the clan will basically have no viable PPC version they can use.

I understand the goal is that Clan weapons shouldn't be completely overpowered, but you need to balance their entire system which requires you to keep in mind they don't have alternative weapons to draw on that are effectively "lower" tech like PPCs and standard IS Autocannons.


Go ahead and datamine, and take a look at how frequent ER PPCs are used in comparison to PPCs - a clan version doing more damage, but having it be splash will still not justify 15 heat per volley on a single weapon.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 07 June 2014 - 09:20 PM.


#16 FupDup

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:20 PM

View PostUltimatum X, on 07 June 2014 - 09:19 PM, said:



Clan ER PPC can not be 15 heat to fire then, or not only will they be as unusable as IS ER PPCs - the clan will basically have no viable PPC version they can use.

I understand the goal is that Clan weapons shouldn't be completely overpowered, but you need to balance their entire system which requires you to keep in mind they don't have alternative weapons to draw on that are effectively "lower" tech like PPCs and standard IS Autocannons.


Go ahead and datamine, and take a look at how frequent ER PPCs are used in comparison to PPCs - doing more damage, but having it be splash will still not justify 15 heat on a weapon.

Baby Adder agrees. Baby Adder wants to hurt bad nerfgun wielding man.

#17 Deathlike

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:22 PM

View PostFupDup, on 07 June 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

Baby Adder agrees. Baby Adder wants to hurt bad nerfgun wielding man.


Funny thing was, I said a while ago that I'd like ERPPCs to have slightly reduced heat, because of difficultly of use (13.5 at best, 14 or so might be OK).

But hey... that assumes Clan DHS will inherit the 1.4 IS DHS value... which might not be too farfetched now!

Edited by Deathlike, 07 June 2014 - 09:22 PM.


#18 Mcgral18

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:23 PM

View PostFupDup, on 07 June 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

Baby Adder agrees. Baby Adder wants to hurt bad nerfgun wielding man.


The Kit Fox, also known as the Littlest Poptart...will not be very useful as the littlest poptart. I guess 20 PP FLD is better than nothing...but it's too much heat to justify it.

#19 Nothing Whatsoever

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:24 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 07 June 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

But hey... that assumes Clan DHS will inherit the 1.4 IS DHS value... which might not be too farfetched now!


Indeed.

Would be nice for more frequent info. Such as this.

Edit: hoping for true DHS being possible in the future.

Edited by Praetor Knight, 07 June 2014 - 09:25 PM.


#20 Khobai

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Posted 07 June 2014 - 09:25 PM

Quote

Clan ER PPC can not be 15 heat to fire then, or not only will they be as unusable as IS ER PPCs - the clan will basically have no viable PPC version they can use.


IS PPC = 10 heat for 10 pinpoint

C ERPPC = 15 heat for 10 pinpoint + 5 arcing damage, no min range, greater max range.

Seems fine at 15 heat to me. Not only is the heat to damage ratio about the same, but you also get a massive range advantage.





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