23 replies to this topic

[Haroldwolf]

First I want to say this isn’t a negative MWO post so please put away your IS and Clan flamers.

The question comes up from time to time which is “What is MWO?” and what that really means is what the game play is.

MWO is first and foremost a simulation and FPS. All the game play and rewards are all focused around killing the other mechs. Yes I know there is a “conquest” mode but almost every match I have been in, the wins were when all the mechs on one side were destroyed by the opposing force.

You might argue that MWO is an RPG, but IMHO it isn’t. Yes, there are some elements because we can upgrade our mechs, but there isn’t any real pilot upgrade and all mechs and weapons are essentially available to all players. The latter is a hallmark of a shooter or simulation rather than a Game/RPG. Look to World of Tanks for an acceptable blend of FPS and RPG.

So MWO isn’t a game? Well that depends on your definition. MWO is definitely a mech simulation and FPS. There are some RFP-lite elements in MWO. However, if you believe a game should have objectives to complete other than whack-a-mech, then MWO is definitely NOT a game. I don’t mean a game has to be PvE, you can still have PvP scenarios in MWO like escort, take and hold, move X number of mechs off the map, etc. One side wins for meeting the object and the other side wins when they keep the opposing player from meeting their objective. Now the objective is more important than whack-a-mech. The positive side effect is that PGI can stop with the constant tweaking (twerking) the mechs and weapons.

Mechwarrior Table Top was never a whack-a-mech game but rather was always a scenario driven game. That’s why MWO seems lacking to any long term MechWarrior fan, those elements are missing.

MWO is fun, but without the injection of a different game play any FPS gets boring. PGI has a great opportunity to add that scenario driven game play in Community Warfare and I for one hope they are considering it.

[Heffay]

FPS mech sim.

[FupDup]

This game's control scheme is probably too simplistic and basic to be a "real" simulator. Giant robots in the year 3050 are probably complicated and intricate machines... Just putting you in first person view of a mech does not a simulator make, or else Hawken would be considered a sim.

Here is a more accurate example of a simulator:



I'm not saying this is a positive or negative thing, I'm just laying out definitions and stuff.

[Heeden]

Mech combat sim-lite. I don't think the "FPS" label is needed - "First person" is intrinsic to it being a sim and "Shooter" is a big part of mech combat, plus "FPS" as a genre has some fairly specific qualities that MW lacks, notably WASD+Mouse/two-stick controls.

[Heeden]

FupDup, on 09 July 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

This game's control scheme is probably too simplistic and basic to be a "real" simulator. Giant robots in the year 3050 are probably complicated and intricate machines... Just putting you in first person view of a mech does not a simulator make, or else Hawken would be considered a sim.

Here is a more accurate example of a simulator:



I'm not saying this is a positive or negative thing, I'm just laying out definitions and stuff.

It fits in as a "sim" because you're playing the pilot rather than directly controlling the mech. It is a very light sim as you say, but I think "sim" fits better than anything else.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Giant stompy robot sim.

I would define MWO as a shooter but it borrows elements from other genres too.

[Fut]

FupDup, on 09 July 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

This game's control scheme is probably too simplistic and basic to be a "real" simulator. Giant robots in the year 3050 are probably complicated and intricate machines... Just putting you in first person view of a mech does not a simulator make, or else Hawken would be considered a sim.

Suppose it all just depends on how much of a tightass you want to be with the language - but I believe that (simplistic) Simulator is the best way to describe MWO. Plus, the developers still claim that this is supposed to be a simulator of sorts.

From the MWO "Game" Page: A tactical BattleMech simulation set in 3050 AD. As a pilot known as a "MechWarrior", you are about to take control of the most powerful mechanical battle units the universe has ever seen.

Edited by Fut, 09 July 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[Xyroc]

its a FPS no way a sim .. a sim worries about actual physics and real world interactions. Now if the damage was real as in the laser was actually cutting through the mech to damage components in a specific manor based upon location we could start calling for sure But I can be getting shot in the same spot at the end of an AC barrel and my whole arm go flying off. There was no direct force to cause that action.

Edited by Beliall, 09 July 2014 - 10:50 AM.

[9thDeathscream]

FPS Mech Shooter. Not a Sim, to simple!

[FupDup]

Fut, on 09 July 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Suppose it all just depends on how much of a tightass you want to be with the language - but I believe that (simplistic) Simulator is the best way to describe MWO. Plus, the developers still claim that this is supposed to be a simulator of sorts.

From the MWO "Game" Page: A tactical BattleMech simulation set in 3050 AD. As a pilot known as a "MechWarrior", you are about to take control of the most powerful mechanical battle units the universe has ever seen.

MWO has also been described as "a thinking man's shooter" in the past, and on the front end splash page it says "a AAA shooter experience."

Heeden, on 09 July 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

It fits in as a "sim" because you're playing the pilot rather than directly controlling the mech. It is a very light sim as you say, but I think "sim" fits better than anything else.

Currently, the only direct control we have over the pilot is holding the CTRL key to move our head around to look around the cockpit. Otherwise, you are in fact directly controlling the robot in MWO.

[Tom Sawyer]

Going with giant stompy robot FPS Mech shooter.

[Odins Fist]

15 seconds into the Official Open Beta Trailer around November 2012



PGI went with the description "A thinking person's shooter" by IGN.

Odins Fist, on 03 July 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

MWO has "NEVER" really been a simulator, I have played plenty of simulators (flight/Submarine), and MWO is a First Person Shooter, that later threw in 3PV during development.

Silent Hunter 3 and Sturmovik-1946 where way, way, way more involved then MWO can even come close to being in terms of managemment.

Try piloting a Me-163 Komet with only 8 minutes of fuel, scoring (4) B-17 kills, and gliding back to base only to explode shortly after touch down for landing, or how about manually calculating the angle on bow input of a torpedo.

MWO would NOT survive if it were a true simulator, it would need single player campaign.
The current player base would be so much smaller if MWO were a true simulator, even though it wouldn't be as much involved as the simulators I just described.

MWO hasn't been a simulator from DAY ONE, if they added things that took additional time for the pilot to deal with BEYOND what we have now, matches would be longer, kids with their dad's credit card wouldn't play, and MWO would likely already be done by now, as far as multiplayer.

Community Warfare is about the only thing that will add ANY sort of reason for long term player retention in very large numbers, and we don't even have that yet.

CONCLUSION: MWO is NOT a simulator, and it was never meant to be. (if you compare it to other simulator games)

So what is the standard that we measure MWO against..??
Where is the bar set..??
The old Table Top BattleTech game..??

Tell me again how well it (MWO) has translated over from BattleTech , I think they have done almost the best they can WITHOUT community warfare and REAL official leagues.

MechWarrior Online is a First Person Shooter.

I will slightly revise my statement that MWO is still a first person shooter, with an optional 3rd person view added during development, and is as clsoe to a Mech Simulator that they can get, but is till more of a first person shooter then it is a simulator, as it relates to TRUE simulators.

I guess it doesn't really matter, since comparing it to TRUE simulators doesn't work, and people will just argue about it.

[JP Josh]

eh they gave away the right to call it a sim the day they took away falling down from collisions.

also i cant make my mech pimp slap yet so theres that.

and the buildings arnt destructible.

its gone backwards since closed beta.

Edited by JP Josh, 09 July 2014 - 11:05 AM.

[Koniving]

(There's gonna be a lot of flamer humor here, it's all in jest.)

Haroldwolf, on 09 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

I want to say this isn’t a negative MWO post so please put away your IS and Clan flamers.

But, but, flamers!


Flamers ready!

Haroldwolf, on 09 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

MWO is first and foremost a simulation and FPS.

Disagree here. MWO officially decided to stray away from the simulation path during closed beta; difficult to produce and very exclusive, would ostracize casual gamers (the mainstay of a free to play market).

Chase the heretic!

Haroldwolf, on 09 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Mechwarrior Table Top was never a whack-a-mech game but rather was always a scenario driven game. That’s why MWO seems lacking to any long term MechWarrior fan, those elements are missing.

MWO is fun, but without the injection of a different game play any FPS gets boring. PGI has a great opportunity to add that scenario driven game play in Community Warfare and I for one hope they are considering it.

Agree here. Assault mode needs to have tangible value and valid reason in going to capture/take the enemy base or defending your own rather than being a skirmish knock-off mode with 'an alternative victory that does not pay'.

Conquest should have more space between its bases with fewer bases on smaller maps and more on larger maps, with more time to get said bases on the larger maps (instead of 750, say 1500), with the conquest rewards being valuable enough to make them important as opposed to 'lets immediately kill everyone'.

We need scenarios, objectives that really matter. The key words being "that really matter." Objectives that are more important than life or death.

(More flamer images).

Spoiler

Note: Every single image here with flamer use is of me.
All shots by Lordred.

[Exilyth]

At the moment, WMO is a match based f2p sci-fi shooter with walking tanks and a battletech inspired design.

Do note the lack of "a thinking mans", "simulation", "role warfare", "lore rich" and "[redacted]". Hopefully comunity warfare will fix that soon™.

[Joseph Mallan]

Love all the Flaming Kon... That is more Flamers in one post than I have seen in 30 years!

[Sadist Cain]

Didn't they go through a phase of trying to be an mmorpg?

After they abandoned the whole thinking mans, first person, immersive, role warfare, artemis controller etc etc deal

Now? future tank shoot em up

[Koniving]

Fut, on 09 July 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Suppose it all just depends on how much of a tightass you want to be with the language - but I believe that (simplistic) Simulator is the best way to describe MWO. Plus, the developers still claim that this is supposed to be a simulator of sorts.

From the MWO "Game" Page: A tactical BattleMech simulation set in 3050 AD. As a pilot known as a "MechWarrior", you are about to take control of the most powerful mechanical battle units the universe has ever seen.

That one hasn't been updated since the third person mod, where it used to say "A tactical BattleMech First Person Simulation."
I think the word simulation is a carry over, PGI's starting to get the simulation parts back in, but this is by and large an action oriented shooter.

There was a time when heat penalties existed in the form of heat over 80% would systematically destroy heatsinks, ammunition, and weapons for being sustained over long periods of time. There was a time when actuator damage to your leg would require frequent course corrections. There was even a time when rushing at full speed with your arm extended in an Atlas would clothesline a Hunchback, and dropkicks actually gave a Raven 4X a chance against an Atlas. There was a time when convergence took time to align your weapons to a target at 300 meters when you were aligned to hit something at 900 meters. Most of all, there was a time when thresholds didn't exceed 60 points of heat, meaning that 6 PPCs would always shut down the mech...and it'd take up to 6 seconds to start up again even if you didn't go past 100% heat as you wait to cool below 50% heat. There was a time when repair and rearm was in, when Streaks didn't defy the laws of physics and required skill to use, and when LRMs required a ballistic launch angle (aim to the sky) to get them to go over things, and absolutely did not lock.

All gone.

Most missed of all was the time you could kill something with a Flamer.

And wait, you and FupDup aren't the same person? o.o; Learn something new every day.

Joseph Mallan, on 09 July 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

Love all the Flaming Kon... That is more Flamers in one post than I have seen in 30 years!

Celebratory flamer!

[LordKnightFandragon]

Its a Robotic based arcade FPS featuring TDM as its only gamemode....

[Screech]

Well, lets be honest the idea of a simulator of giant stompy robots makes about as much sense as a Unicorn simulator. Best I would put MWO; it's an armored FPS with component destruction.