51 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

"When will PGI do right by the Pretty Baby?"

Almost certainly never. It takes PGI a looooong time to balance normal mech variants, let alone hero mechs. Some of the oldest mechs in this game are still the most useless - although the cynic would argue that this is just power creep, and not an unintentional mistake.

I would be happy to see many of the changes proposed here, but not ECM on a hero mech. I do agree we need more ECM mechs though.

[Satan n stuff]

Mystere, on 13 July 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

The Pretty Baby is best thought of a a drag racer without brakes. It's best used for creating mayhem within enemy lines. I used to charge the enemy from behind and wreck havoc while the rest of my team moved in. I had a better than 50/50 chance of surviving with a minimum of 1 kill. I used to earn Johnny Fives even before that achievement existed.

Of course, this was all before the ERPPC changes and the introduction of ghost heat. As such, PGI can give the PB some heat and/or PPC related benefits to make it excel in that role again.

I used to charge them from the front, alpha once then torso twist and just keep going straight, this would then be immediately followed by everyone else charging the mechs that have just unloaded their weapons and are turning to track the giant distraction. Most of the time I'd survive too, and get a kill or two with the remaining half of my weapons.
Works extremely well against closely grouped mechs, and you can drop an arty strike on them for even more chaos.
Do not try this against competitive teams, it might work, but you're more or less guaranteed to die either way.

[MadMaxMKII]

I played in all my different AWS 1737 Matches so far and realy would like to buy the Pretty Baby. But as long as PGI is not tweaking the chassi so I will see from the outward appearance what kind of weapons are loaded, I will refuse to buy the Pretty Baby. Why are some of the older Mechs (Dragon, Cataphract ans Awesome) still not renewed?

[The Basilisk]

Since they already broke the Pay To Win Barrier with their Clanmechs pre order action I don't see a reason why PGI shouldn't do an Overhaul of their heromechs to make them a bit more attractive.
Some suggestions:

-- Death's Knell: get him ECM
-- Ember dito
-- Oxide dito
-- Huginn....its a raven theres nothig to do about this ;-)
-- Arrow: add additional Energy Hardpoint to his arms
-- GridIron: get him an 10% Armor bonus and other tweaks since his names suggest a tanking mech.
-- Yen - LO - Wang: needs more maneuverability
-- Loup de Guerre: just dont know maybe a 2nd AMS and more missle Hardpoits to stak more LRM5
-- Golden Boy: more Hardpoints for making a SSRM boat
-- IV4: IDK
-- Flame and Fang: Add jumpjets and more Hardpoints while stripping underarm actuators
-- Jester add AC Hardpoits to his arms
-- Firebrand: Add jumpjets and more laser hardpoints to his arms
-- Ilya: Jumpjets and an additional energy Hardpoit in his left arm and an additional AC hardpoint in his left torso.
-- Protector: IDK
-- Baby: like op said
-- Dragonslayer needs to be denerfed again. Atm its just a next to useless mech. You can't realy use the jets and even with highrating reactor its too cumbersome while beeing too big and having not enough armor.
-- Misery: second AC slot in other torso or even move both ac slots into arms for dual AC20 or dual gauss --> would be the ideal anti dire or anti timbi
-- Heavy metal: needs to be more nimble same like Victor
-- La Maliche: Double every hardpoint
-- Boars Head: dito

Thats it. At least the heros would be somewhat on par with the Clan invasion mechs.

[Circles End]

The Basilisk, on 14 July 2014 - 02:10 AM, said:

[Post filled with P2W suggestions]

Or we could just drag the poor game out behind the barn and put a bullet in it, instead of suffering the prolonged agony you are suggesting we use to kill it.

*edit* for the record I don't want MWO to die.

Edited by Circles End, 16 July 2014 - 12:46 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Circles End, on 14 July 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

Or we could just drag the poor game out behind the barn and put a bullet in it, instead of suffering the prolonged agony you are suggesting we use to kill it.

That would be something I would like to watch.....no wait let me do the deed myself
No realy.
I think Clans wouldn't be a problem at all if PGI stood to their schedule: FIRST CW and then Clans.
Now we will have 3 months ( or to be more exact we will have till Timberwolf and Stormcrow come out for C-bills ) of pay to win and whine and bickering if the Clan Mechs are OP or not and the one faction will compare Kitfoxes and Pumas with Jenners and Embers and the other faction will compare Timberwolves with Dragons and Quickdraws.
No matter what sooner or later IS - Mechs will simply be outdated.
And thats a Problem for the game. ( Yea I know there was a DEVVlog6 and I don't care anymore what they promise until I see it !!! )
Prereleasing Clanmechs for money without CW was a FUBAR decision.

[MeiSooHaityu]

PGI will get around to fixing the Awesome when they get around to fixing the Catapult, which is never.

There is new mechs to be made and sold, no time to correct old mistskes.

[VIPER2207]

As a lover of the Awesomes, i'm one of the guys who bought the PB to show people that it can work.
I got all the other variants, and do great games with all of them (after some time of getting used to the chassis and tweaking the setups),so one day i looked at the PB and said to myself "yeah ok... the chassis itself is already hardmode... the weaponslots on that thing suck.... these negative quirks are bad... the engine cap might be nice, but if i cram a XL400 in this, i don't have much tonnage for weapons left, so eff this... but there MUST be a way to make that thing work and show the guys that this thing can be devastating". So i bought some MC and got the PB... and i failed epicly.

Whatever i did, whatever loadout i tried, whatever strategy i used, there was no way to constantly do good games in the PB.
With a mech with hitboxes this big, speed is the key to survive, so anything below a 350-engine is a death sentence, the energy-slot in the head is as good as useless, the amount of tubes doesn't allow it to be a LRM-carrier, a big engine in combination with the decel-quirk makes that thing move like a fully loaded freight train (dont even THINK of something like an emergency stop in situations you are used to stop, just keep running and turn around), the hitboxes in combination with the needed speed and therefor the xl-engine makes it a bad close-up-brawler. Seriously (and i hate that i have to say that), there is no good thing about the PB... except that it's an Awesome and therefor looks awesome

I know only one pilot who manages to get good games regularly, and that's with a loadout mixed from LRMs, ignoring the tube-count, and some lasers. But even his games and their values feel more like he is piloting a medium or light heavy.

Really, something has to be done about that Ugly Baby... give it a balistic slot in one arm, more missile-tubes, more energy slots, the ability to carry ECM, remove ghostheat or anything... and first of all, remove that damn negative quirk!

At the moment, in terms of helping my team and having fun, i would rather take ANY other mech (except the locust maybe) before i drop in the Sad Baby...

[Alistair Winter]

The Basilisk, on 14 July 2014 - 02:10 AM, said:

Since they already broke the Pay To Win Barrier with their Clanmechs pre order action I don't see a reason why PGI shouldn't do an Overhaul of their heromechs to make them a bit more attractive.
Some suggestions:

-- Death's Knell: get him ECM
-- Ember dito
-- Oxide dito
-- Huginn....its a raven theres nothig to do about this ;-)
-- Arrow: add additional Energy Hardpoint to his arms
-- GridIron: get him an 10% Armor bonus and other tweaks since his names suggest a tanking mech.
-- Yen - LO - Wang: needs more maneuverability
-- Loup de Guerre: just dont know maybe a 2nd AMS and more missle Hardpoits to stak more LRM5
-- Golden Boy: more Hardpoints for making a SSRM boat
-- IV4: IDK
-- Flame and Fang: Add jumpjets and more Hardpoints while stripping underarm actuators
-- Jester add AC Hardpoits to his arms
-- Firebrand: Add jumpjets and more laser hardpoints to his arms
-- Ilya: Jumpjets and an additional energy Hardpoit in his left arm and an additional AC hardpoint in his left torso.
-- Protector: IDK
-- Baby: like op said
-- Dragonslayer needs to be denerfed again. Atm its just a next to useless mech. You can't realy use the jets and even with highrating reactor its too cumbersome while beeing too big and having not enough armor.
-- Misery: second AC slot in other torso or even move both ac slots into arms for dual AC20 or dual gauss --> would be the ideal anti dire or anti timbi
-- Heavy metal: needs to be more nimble same like Victor
-- La Maliche: Double every hardpoint
-- Boars Head: dito

Thats it. At least the heros would be somewhat on par with the Clan invasion mechs.

Well, I disagree with every single suggestion in that post, except giving the Death's Knell ECM.

Basically, all those things either contribute to further power creep by making all hero mechs OP or have very little impact at all.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 14 July 2014 - 03:50 AM.

[Cptn Goodvibes Pig of Steel]

G'day,


Agreed, it is an iconic mech and should be much better in MWO. My reading of Battletech lore indicates that whilst not manuverable, is an excellent, dependable weapon system and a solid defensive mech that could take plenty of punishment. This is certainly not what we see in MWO. In spite of this, I've recently purchased the Pretty Baby Bad mech from the Awesome Awful series of assault mechs. Also mainly due to my desire for something to fill my 80 to 90 tonne class mech inventory void, that is different from the score of mainstream Stalkers, Victors and Highlanders seen widespread throughout the MWO community.

I haven't elited out this mech as yet and fully expect to be dissapointed at some stage. I've switched to a standard 300 engine and cleaned up the horrible colour scheme it came with. (kind of looks like the mech vomitted upon itself, which might be fairly appropriate in respect to earlier comments) Armament is 2 x PPC's, MPLas, 2 x SRM4, 1 x SRM6 and AMS, with full armour. Decidedly mixed results so far, though improved after I changed the default armour ratios. Yes the mech stops like a freight train and handles like a headless chicken. I use foot flight pedals for acceleration and mouse button for reversing, so maybe its not too much of a problem for me. I guess I could describe this in my native Australian vernacular, as what I should expect from mech with its head up its arse!    

At any rate, I have some questions for those of you with more experience with the Awesome.

1. Are all these problems associated just with the hero version or does it apply to all the Awesome chassis?
2. To what extent has recent SRM fixes improved the combat effectiveness of these builds?
3. I recall seeing a post about some hit box changes to the Awesome. Did this change or improve anything at all?
4. Will a standard engine help in deceleration? I gather it assists in survivability and am in no hurry to rush first into combat.
5. Does the deceleration problem disappear with all the unlocks, or is it just less pronounced?
6. What are the best armour ratios (front and back) that work best, particulary the centre torso?

I also think that it'd be a longtime before your concerns are addressed by the developer. Maybe with the onset of community warfare, the general Marik or Freeworlds community will voice their concerns about their premier assault mech being nerfed. Personally, I tend to revel in the fact that I'm piloting possibly the worst mech in the game. No doubt there's probably a special place in mech pilot hell for people like me who spend time in the Pretty Baby cockpit. So why not create a unit or group that solely consists of Awesomes and in enter it into the forthcoming CW. Call it something obvious like the "Purgatory Punishment Company" to highlight to the developers, the apparent short commings of this mech. Also "PPC' signifys the weapon of choice for the Awesome series of mechs.

Looking forward to your comments.


Regards,
Draughluin

Edited by Draughluin, 14 July 2014 - 04:50 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Draughluin, on 14 July 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

At any rate, I have some questions from those of you with more experience with the Awesome.
1. Are all these problems associated just with the hero version or does it apply to all the Awesome chassis?
2. To what extent has recent SRM fixes improved the combat effectiveness of these builds?
3. I recall seeing a post about some hit box changes to the Awesome. Did this change or improve anything at all?
4. Will a standard engine help in deceleration? I gather it assists in survivability and am in no hurry to rush first into combat.
5. Does the deceleration problem disappear with all the unlocks, or is it just less pronounced?
6. What are the best armour ratios (front and back) that work best, particulary the centre torso?

1. The Awesomes generally handle alright, so the lack of agility isn't really a concern for the other mechs. The 9M in particular is fairly agile.
2. At this stage in the game, with so many snipers and LRM boats, you need speed or survivability to be a good SRM boat, and the Awesome has neither. The 8R may pack a nice punch as an SRM boat, but you'll rarely live long enough to deliver more than a couple of salvos, I think.
3. Yeah, you don't die from CT damage as often. But it's still a relatively slow barn door, so you're still taking a lot of damage to the side torsos.
4. STD vs XL doesn't make any difference, the important thing is the size of the engines. And while a huge engine will let you go at higher speeds, thus increasing the time it takes to slow down, small engines also take more time to reverse. So anytime you're looking over a hill or around a corner, a small engine means it takes you longer to pop back into cover when you're under fire. And AWS do draw a lot of fire, as they are considered easy targets.
5. Haven't played the Pretty Baby, but it's not an issue for other Awesomes.
6. Depends on your role. The 8R and 8T are long range support mechs, so they don't need too much rear armour. If you get shot from the rear in your 8R with 4xLRM10 or 4xLRM15, then you're probably screwed anyway. The AWS-8Q and AWS-9M are a bit different, but somewhere around 15 should be alright. I don't think there's a right answer, because it depends on your playstyle.

[Sephlock]

Biaxialrain, on 13 July 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Well, you sound passionate, hope they listen.

Does this look like twitter to you?

[N a p e s]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as a few of the others who posted in this thread in that I'm generally a fan of the Awesome regardless of its issues who succumbed and bought a PB despite the many warnings of how bad it is. I mean people say a lot of mechs are bad and I've always been able to have some good games and have fun but the PB... its seriously bad and it really needs some love.

There are some good suggestions in this thread like adding one (or two) energy hardpoints and unlocking the missile tubes. Removing the deccel nerf should be the first fix though and since it's supposed to be so agile why not giving a turning speed buff instead?

[Nothing Whatsoever]

The Awesomes could see a hitbox adjustment overall, making the Arms bigger to cover the shoulders for example and, double checking the CT.

The Pretty Baby then needs one more hardpoint, and can use an adjustment on it's missile tube counts.

If an arm energy hardpoint is out of the question, then I'd hope to consider a CT hardpoint at least. Either an Energy to allow a 3LL build or a 6 tube Missile one for an SRM6 or LRM 5. Then the arm missile tubes, bring those up to either 6 or 10 tubes with the torso missile slot going to 20 tubes.

[N a p e s]

Praetor Knight, on 14 July 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

The Awesomes could see a hitbox adjustment overall, making the Arms bigger to cover the shoulders for example and, double checking the CT.

The Pretty Baby then needs one more hardpoint, and can use an adjustment on it's missile tube counts.

If an arm energy hardpoint is out of the question, then I'd hope to consider a CT hardpoint at least. Either an Energy to allow a 3LL build or a 6 tube Missile one for an SRM6 or LRM 5. Then the arm missile tubes, bring those up to either 6 or 10 tubes with the torso missile slot going to 20 tubes.

The arm energy hardpoint would be best but if it wouldn't be there I'd stack the second in the LT with the other that's already there. Going with the CT would limit it to a 2 slot weapon so there'd be no chance of going with a PPC. Of course, that could be the reason for your suggestion.

[Oni Ralas]

I've always loved my Awesome -- even though they got the short end of the balance stick from the get go.

The chassis is a damn walking heatsink. Seriously, it's a refrigeration unit with armor and energy weapons. It is the *PERFECT* platform for PPCs, in both game and lore -- unfortunately current situations prevent that. Combine GH, still very slab-sided hitboxes and the current pinpoint damage situation and we've got mechs that are better used as a decoration than to fight in.

Perhaps one day I will get to use them again.. with explicit tripple PPC loadouts from factory not equating to an instant overheat condition.

[Trauglodyte]

The Awesome, and the PB in and of itself, isn't a bad mech. It just doesn't excel at its intended design purpose because of *drum roll* Ghost Heat. The PB, though, gets slapped down harder because some mental midget at PGI for some reason thinks that JJs are equal to weapon hard points and that larger engine sizes should offset the number of weapon hard points. So, that wonderful 400 XL that you can pack in there results in one less weapon. That means that what little the PB offers is reduced while also having its agility specs reduced. That, in turn, leaves you a mech that even the worst of gunners can hit with fewer hard points than necessary with horrible turning and accel/decel rates.

What compounds all of this is that, even if PGI broke down and offered up another hard point, all you'd really get is another version of one of the 8 series. Add another energy, you've got the 8V. Add another missile and you've got the 8R. As it stands, the 9M is just the 8Q with the a missile in the arm (CT can be energy just like the 8Q). They're not going to add ballistics and throwing us a bone and giving it another AMS or even two more AMS won't fix it. In all honesty, what they should have done was:

• remove one of the arm missile and replace with an AMS
  
• add two energy/missile hard points to the CT

If I could do a complete redesign, it would have had 2 energy in the right arm, 1 LRM15 tube count in each side torso, 1 energy in the head, and 2 energy/missile hard points in the CT. But, short of a redesign, there isn't anything that is going to save the PB. It is as DOA as it was at release.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 14 July 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[Oni Ralas]

The Basilisk, on 14 July 2014 - 02:10 AM, said:

-- Yen - LO - Wang: needs more maneuverability

Manuverability is fine. We just want her to be like the CN9-AH that they took away from us (for those old enough to remember). Damn good mech too.

[Tezcatli]

Koniving, on 13 July 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

Real quick..
Got two things..

1) The negative quirks are what makes it a great mech. Think I'm kidding?
Take your Pretty Baby and climb a hill with the zig zag technique.
Now take any Victor with the same size engine and try the same thing.

Want to know what you'll notice? The Pretty Baby's inferior deceleration rate allows it to climb harder, longer, faster. It's the same effect as having a stronger-than-available-hill-climb-module that you can stack with the hill climb module to climb slopes that even light mechs can't climb. Why? Because PGI probably didn't think that through...much like many things.

2) Fixing the PB is all well and good. I've got a simpler fix though. Art overhaul with visual weapons customization + for the love of god fix the overlapping CT hitbox that makes CT easy to hit from the side by intentionally shooting the STs on ALL Awesomes. Perhaps a non-linear CT/ST configuration for the hitbox would help, akin to what was done for the Victor.


Because what we have isn't that different from this...

The should squeeze in the torso mounted weapons closer to the CT. The Victor's lower CT is encroached in on by the sides. So why shouldn't the awesome get the same treatment?

[CDLord HHGD]

Yeah, the Awesomes in general are awaiting a graphics pass..... I was always pretty successful in my Pretty Baby, but like was said earlier, I don't lead any charges with it.