74 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

The Basilisk, on 25 July 2014 - 11:47 PM, said:

Nice chart....and....completely offtopic.
If you would have read thoroughly you would have noticed no one here is talking about metagaming bullscrap but about personal reasons NOT TO DRIVE A SHD.

The main reasons for feeling uncomfortable in SHDs most ppl are mentioning seem to be the restricted field of view and the somewhat awkward movement/ torso and armtwist of the Mech.
So theres a point of personal feeling and preference here, nothing to do for flipchart- and exelwarrioronline.

OP stated "Shadowhawks seem to be a popular mech, but tbh I don't see the appeal. I given the choice I would much rather pilot a hunchback, centurion, wolverine, or blackjack. It is my least favorite medium by far."

We are in the guide section, and I am here to make sure new players don't get misinformed.

[IraqiWalker]

Kin3ticX, on 26 July 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:

OP stated "Shadowhawks seem to be a popular mech, but tbh I don't see the appeal. I given the choice I would much rather pilot a hunchback, centurion, wolverine, or blackjack. It is my least favorite medium by far."

We are in the guide section, and I am here to make sure new players don't get misinformed.

By completely missing the point of the OP. The title of the topic, and what the reasons are for disliking the mech?

The OP's case isn't based on performance in terms of hardpoint set ups, and poptart play. It's based on the mech handling like an 18 wheeler moving on only 10 wheels, or an iceberg in the middle of the Sahara.

Plus the restricted field of view from the deep cockpit and the big guns removing your peripheral vision. Not to mention that they blind the hell out of you when you start slam-firing them.

As you can see, none of these reasons have to do with ballistic mounts, or it's performance as a poptart medium.

In fact, for me, I'd pick a Hunchback over it any day of the week, simply because it's infinitely more nimble, shorter, and the skewed hit box allows for extreme armor values on the gun side torso, the ability for it to fire directly behind it. Plus, in an urban setting, it is flat out better.

[Gremlich Johns]

I don't like them either and prefer the HBKs or the Wolverine 7K.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 26 July 2014 - 07:54 AM.

[Stickjock]

Dunno... been a while since I've ran my Shadow Hawks, but all 3 I own have their Elites done and slowly working on master (same with my Griffins, haven't touched my Wolverines, go figure)...

I like the way they perform personally...

[Kin3ticX]

IraqiWalker, on 26 July 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

By completely missing the point of the OP. The title of the topic, and what the reasons are for disliking the mech?

The OP's case isn't based on performance in terms of hardpoint set ups, and poptart play. It's based on the mech handling like an 18 wheeler moving on only 10 wheels, or an iceberg in the middle of the Sahara.

Plus the restricted field of view from the deep cockpit and the big guns removing your peripheral vision. Not to mention that they blind the hell out of you when you start slam-firing them.

As you can see, none of these reasons have to do with ballistic mounts, or it's performance as a poptart medium.

In fact, for me, I'd pick a Hunchback over it any day of the week, simply because it's infinitely more nimble, shorter, and the skewed hit box allows for extreme armor values on the gun side torso, the ability for it to fire directly behind it. Plus, in an urban setting, it is flat out better.

If the 'mech performs well as a general consensus then perhaps other struggling players are imagining things or drawing the wrong conclusions. Perhaps other players with lots of experience in SHDs can propose other ways to think about it and learn something?

[IraqiWalker]

Kin3ticX, on 27 July 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

If the 'mech performs well as a general consensus then perhaps other struggling players are imagining things or drawing the wrong conclusions. Perhaps other players with lots of experience in SHDs can propose other ways to think about it and learn something?

I understand what you're saying. No one is disputing that it's a good mech. People are not talking pure mechanics, they are talking cosmetics more than anything else. You are arguing about mechanics and combat performance, and the SHD is one of the best mediums out there. Pretty much the best, actually.

However, the cosmetics are the main problem the pilots here are complaining about.

[mogs01gt]

Kin3ticX, on 27 July 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

If the 'mech performs well as a general consensus then perhaps other struggling players are imagining things or drawing the wrong conclusions. Perhaps other players with lots of experience in SHDs can propose other ways to think about it and learn something?

They perform "well" due to flawed game mechanics with pop tarting. Plus missile based mechs are practically useless since LRM has about 40 counters. Ignoring weapon mechanics, the Griffin is a superior mech in MWO.

The cockpit of the Griffs are soo nice!!

Edited by mogs01gt, 01 August 2014 - 12:13 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

mogs01gt, on 01 August 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

They perform "well" due to flawed game mechanics with pop tarting. Plus missile based mechs are practically useless since LRM has about 40 counters. Ignoring weapon mechanics, the Griffin is a superior mech in MWO.

The cockpit of the Griffs are soo nice!!

To be honest, missile mechs can switch to SRMs, which are great. Try a BLR-1S with XL400, endo, 4MLs, and 4SRM6+A. Max armor, and 6 internal DHS. It's a monster (2-3 tons of ammo for SRMs, and 1-1.5 tons of ammo for AMS)

[mogs01gt]

IraqiWalker, on 01 August 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

To be honest, missile mechs can switch to SRMs, which are great. Try a BLR-1S with XL400, endo, 4MLs, and 4SRM6+A. Max armor, and 6 internal DHS. It's a monster (2-3 tons of ammo for SRMs, and 1-1.5 tons of ammo for AMS)

well it sounds good on paper but we all know the issues with Brawlers in MWO.

[IraqiWalker]

mogs01gt, on 04 August 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

well it sounds good on paper but we all know the issues with Brawlers in MWO.

There are only 2 real issues with brawlers right now. One of them can be fixed by the devs, the other ... sadly not.

These issues are:
1- Pilots that don't like using cover, refuse to use cover, or don't know how to use cover to close in on their opponents.

2- Quite a few long range weapons have almost no drawbacks in short range brawls.

Problem (2) can be fixed with some tweaking by the devs. Problem (1), not so much.

At least that's my opinion, I would be interested in what you think.

[mogs01gt]

IraqiWalker, on 04 August 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

There are only 2 real issues with brawlers right now. One of them can be fixed by the devs, the other ... sadly not.

These issues are:
1- Pilots that don't like using cover, refuse to use cover, or don't know how to use cover to close in on their opponents.

2- Quite a few long range weapons have almost no drawbacks in short range brawls.

Problem (2) can be fixed with some tweaking by the devs. Problem (1), not so much.

At least that's my opinion, I would be interested in what you think.

Two is what I was referring to . Well and some maps really do have a lack of cover.

[IraqiWalker]

mogs01gt, on 04 August 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

Two is what I was referring to . Well and some maps really do have a lack of cover.

I have a love-hate relationship with that problem.

On one hand, it gives us different battlefields that favor different weapons. On the other hand, if you drop in there, and you don't have those weapons, you need to play REALLY well to win.

Like Caustic valley when the enemy team has 3 LRM mechs, and yours has none. Enjoy getting pelted to death every time that narc raven popped up.

[Bromineberry]

I don't like Shadowhaws either. For one, the cockpit view is really bad. You can't see anything to the side. But it's nothing I can't live with. My problem is, that here is no real energy heavy variant. That goes for all the 55 ton mechs.

[IraqiWalker]

Bromineberry, on 04 August 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

I don't like Shadowhaws either. For one, the cockpit view is really bad. You can't see anything to the side. But it's nothing I can't live with. My problem is, that here is no real energy heavy variant. That goes for all the 55 ton mechs.

SHD-2K would be your best bet. 3 energy mounts in the side torso at cockpit level and higher.

However, I agree, no SHD variant with 5+ energy hardpoints. However, I like that, allows the 50 tonners to do something the 55ers can't do.

[mogs01gt]

IraqiWalker, on 04 August 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

I have a love-hate relationship with that problem.
On one hand, it gives us different battlefields that favor different weapons. On the other hand, if you drop in there, and you don't have those weapons, you need to play REALLY well to win.
Like Caustic valley when the enemy team has 3 LRM mechs, and yours has none. Enjoy getting pelted to death every time that narc raven popped up.

Well we have to allow missile mechs to have at least one map!!

[IraqiWalker]

mogs01gt, on 05 August 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

Well we have to allow missile mechs to have at least one map!!

I agree, like I said. I hate dropping on those maps when I don't have the weapon they favor, but I love that they exist, since they allow for such dynamic play, and you can't use one cookie-cutter build for all maps.

[Tesunie]

IraqiWalker, on 05 August 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

I agree, like I said. I hate dropping on those maps when I don't have the weapon they favor, but I love that they exist, since they allow for such dynamic play, and you can't use one cookie-cutter build for all maps.

The variety of maps is what makes many of my mechs (set up in a more balanced payload) very happy.

[Nightmare1]

I like my ShadowHawks. I made two of them into fast moving SRM boats and the third into an AC sniper. They perform quite well. I have a 9.50 K/D on my 5M, a 2.00 on the 2H, and a 1.11 on my 2D2. Overall, they're fun for me to drive.

@OP: I understand what you mean about preferring Hunchies though. I'm a Hunchback pilot at heart and love that chassis more than any other. However, I have come to realize that the Shadowhawks are more competitive. As someone who avoids Metas, it took me a while to find good builds. However, I now have some that work great without sacrificing quality of gameplay. I need to make some new screenshots of them. When I do, I'll post 'em up here.

[Bromineberry]

IraqiWalker, on 04 August 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

SHD-2K would be your best bet. 3 energy mounts in the side torso at cockpit level and higher.

However, I agree, no SHD variant with 5+ energy hardpoints. However, I like that, allows the 50 tonners to do something the 55ers can't do.

If it had something between 2 and 4 energy hardpoints in the arms, I would consider it.

It's really sad, there isn't one interesting/good energy based 55 ton mech. Even if I hate do admitting it, I think I'd buy a Griffin/Wolverine Hero mech if PGI released it with 2-3 Energy hardpoints in each arm, 1 in each ST and maybe 1 in the head/center torso.

Edited by Bromineberry, 05 August 2014 - 09:55 AM.

[Modo44]

Bromineberry, on 05 August 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

It's really sad, there isn't one interesting/good energy based 55 ton mech.

Rrright. None. At all.