213 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

To continually use LRMs effectively require skills.

Nerf Rock. Paper is fine.
Signed,
Scissors.

[Mavairo]

Turist0AT, on 16 July 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

this is what i said: It requires teamwork to make them effective.

What part of it dont you understand?

here's the problem, to him, you get locks 24/7 as long as you have the launchers. Because in his ELO people do not take defensive actions at all, to destroy spotters, UAVs, carry ECM, carry radar derp, or even bother to stay out of long firing lanes.

[Lyoto Machida]

Mavairo, on 16 July 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

here's the problem, to him, you get locks 24/7 as long as you have the launchers. Because in his ELO people do not take defensive actions at all, to destroy spotters, UAVs, carry ECM, carry radar derp, or even bother to stay out of long firing lanes.

That doesn't even make sense at all for his ELO...I doubt guys are even hitting "R" to lock targets in that bracket.

[Sandpit]

Lyoto Machida, on 16 July 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

That doesn't even make sense at all for his ELO...I doubt guys are even hitting "R" to lock targets in that bracket.

I made it a point to observe this. It was shocking how many players don't hit R. When asked the most common responses were "silence"
"I don't have time to worry about targeting, I know who I'm shooting at"
"who cares?"
"why would i? so some lurmer can steal my kill?"

which goes back to the whole team concept that many seem to just not understand

[Mavairo]

Lyoto Machida, on 16 July 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

That doesn't even make sense at all for his ELO...I doubt guys are even hitting "R" to lock targets in that bracket.

They might be hitting it randomly from time to time in their spastic keyboard facerolls, and furious attempts at getting their mechs to move and shoot at the same time?

[tayhimself]

Mavairo, on 16 July 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

here's the problem, to him, you get locks 24/7 as long as you have the launchers. Because in his ELO people do not take defensive actions at all, to destroy spotters, UAVs, carry ECM, carry radar derp, or even bother to stay out of long firing lanes.

This is exactly it. Instead of shouting L2P at these guys, try and understand that LRMs are likely impossible to balance for all Elo ranges.
A LRM nerf would help the low Elo players from, quite frankly, a gameplay mechanic that can be frustrating for new/low Elo players. Death raining down from above with massive amounts of screen shake is super frustrating.

[Mcgral18]

tayhimself, on 16 July 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

This is exactly it. Instead of shouting L2P at these guys, try and understand that LRMs are likely impossible to balance for all Elo ranges.
A LRM nerf would help the low Elo players from, quite frankly, a gameplay mechanic that can be frustrating for new/low Elo players. Death raining down from above with massive amounts of screen shake is super frustrating.

And any further nerfs would make LRMs worthless, just as they were before.

[Mavairo]

tayhimself, on 16 July 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

This is exactly it. Instead of shouting L2P at these guys, try and understand that LRMs are likely impossible to balance for all Elo ranges.
A LRM nerf would help the low Elo players from, quite frankly, a gameplay mechanic that can be frustrating for new/low Elo players. Death raining down from above with massive amounts of screen shake is super frustrating.

The problem is, at MY bracket (I suspect I'm a decent way down from the top of the heap, given the continued viability of several of my mechs. I have not yet fully scaled Mt Tryhard obviously. I could I know I could, I've been at the top of Mount Tryhard in several games in the past, but I've made a Conscious choice not to for this game, because just how stale the meta has been since beta days. I mean if I make it, it'll be because hell's frozen over and the Lasers, SRMs, MGs, suddenly become on par with PPCs AC and GR. Not because I put everything away but my meta loaded dragonslayer), LRMs aside from Clan LRMs (which are honestly just a tonnage filler and "free possible damage") are a complete waste of tonnage. The only reason they aren't on the clan mechs is because most of them aren't exactly the best brawlers... even the mighty Timberwolf. They're already almost a complete ghost on the battlefield, and I'm seeing people phasing out the clan LRMs already, because frankly they just aren't damaging enough in the presence of massed Radar Derp, AMS and ECM, even less than IS LRMs are. The only reason they've made it this long I suspect is because of their relative light weight compared to their IS counterparts. Even then, they aren't even close to a mainline weapon on the various clan mechs I see on the field.

A further nerf? What would that accomplish?
There comes a point when you can't coddle the lowbies. If the weaponry is relatively balanced it's up to the lowbies to "get gud" so they can advance and Learn. You don't see Blizzard nerfing the zergling into the ground because the zergling rush kills people in starcraft 2, and you didn't even see it in Broodwar despite over a decade of balance tweaks... that aren't smart enough to utilize their workers as part of early base defense, as Protoss or Terran.

If LRMs are already being phased out Again, in my bracket, what does that say about just how gimped LRMs are?

Edited by Mavairo, 16 July 2014 - 05:02 PM.

[Sandpit]

tayhimself, on 16 July 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

This is exactly it. Instead of shouting L2P at these guys, try and understand that LRMs are likely impossible to balance for all Elo ranges.
A LRM nerf would help the low Elo players from, quite frankly, a gameplay mechanic that can be frustrating for new/low Elo players. Death raining down from above with massive amounts of screen shake is super frustrating.

I can understand where you're coming from but you can't nerf something like what your'e suggesting. All it would do is, as Mcgral stated" make them useless for everyone above that level. Being "op" only against new players doesn't make the weapon op

[Kjudoon]

I love the 'no true scotsman' defense the LRMhatorz have decided to take.

as for STO, never heard of it. Is it a type of fuel treatment?

[Mavairo]

Kjudoon, on 16 July 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

I love the 'no true scotsman' defense the LRMhatorz have decided to take.

as for STO, never heard of it. Is it a type of fuel treatment?

Star trek online. I wish it were a fuel treatment, or in hindsight that it had been vaporware... I loved the community there, but Cryptic ruined that game to the point the community left, and the ones that stayed quit pvping.

[wanderer]

MetalGandalph, on 16 July 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

The new Lrms are a "**** you" from PGI to the competitive scene.

Yeah, the competition for "Longest LRM rant thread" hardly gave you much with this patch. I think you'll get a dozen pages or so of mockery in before K-town, tops.

[Kjudoon]

ah... well I'm not a trekkie so I've no interest in it. But skill in one game doesnt always translate to another.

Also, since there is no other ranking metric outside of solo competitions in MWO they become the ad hoc ranking system.

[Karamarka]

Turist0AT, on 16 July 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

this is what i said: It requires teamwork to make them effective.

What part of it dont you understand? Do i really need to explain role of a scout?

And dont give me "im a neutral" bs

What a load, stormcrow can SOLO easy with LRMs. You guarantee a shut down of enemy mech capability with streams of LRM that shake their screen so bad they cant even play or move. You can run 40lrm infinitely in streams of 10 and you have 4-5 backup weps.

The only people who need a scout are the nubs who run LRM70 with only enough ammo for 14 launches and have NO backup weapons, they are the dudes who sit in the back, get rushed and die or complain about their team. Actually no, they are the people at the start who say "press R plz lol" and do like 300 dmg.

Edited by Karamarka, 16 July 2014 - 06:13 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Karamarka, on 16 July 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

What a load, stormcrow can SOLO easy with LRMs. You guarantee a shut down of enemy mech capability with streams of LRM that shake their screen so bad they cant even play or move. You can run 40lrm infinitely in streams of 10.

The only people who need a scout are the nubs who run LRM70 and have NO backup weapons, they are the dudes who sit in the back, get rushed and die or complain about their team.

Unless even 2 of them have AMS. Then you're kinda screwed.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Sure. go ahead and put splash damage back in. Then torso twisting and angle of attack are not such a worry. pinpoint means you can twist spread damage like you do with lasers now. And no splash means a miss is a miss.

[Sandpit]

Mcgral18, on 16 July 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Unless even 2 of them have AMS. Then you're kinda screwed.

or ecm
or radar dep
or cover
or teammates with those

LRMs have more counters than any other weapon. This, in part, helps balance them.

Want to know what it looks like when LRMs are TRULY op?

Look up some videos of lurmageddon. THAT is what it looks like when LRMs are OP. That's a good example.

[Kjudoon]

Mcgral18, on 16 July 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Unless even 2 of them have AMS. Then you're kinda screwed.

Ahhh yes, the unspoken bane of all LRMs... the buffed AMS. "What buff?" the LRMHatorz may innocently claim with furative glances side to side to see if anyone's catching on to the lie.

When the buffed the speed of LRMs to 175, and then reduced it to 160, they also buffed the AMS to 240m and never reduced them. THEN we got lots of dual and now a triple AMS monsters. They STILL fire through solid objects, ignore scenery and enemies and engage on missiles not locked on to them with range enhancers as well now able to be bought for module slots. And now, C-AMS.

Combine that with the new RaDerp module that causes instaloss for locks if you don't have advance target decay... which is then only reduced and of course the old OP-lephant in the room... ECM... LRMs are still the returned rented mule of the MWO. Now able to do even LESS damage thanks to the elimination of splash.

So this ''LRMs are OP" when all these options are out there to deny their effectiveness... and ONLY them... your qq is sweet sweet nectar to LRM pilots. LRMs are the opportunistic hunter weapon of MWO. Only the foolhardy brave, tactically ignorant, or just plain unlucky succumb to them in 80% of the cases.

And thats the truth... thppppt.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Kjudoon, on 16 July 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

Ahhh yes, the unspoken bane of all LRMs... the buffed AMS. "What buff?" the LRMHatorz may innocently claim with furative glances side to side to see if anyone's catching on to the lie.

When the buffed the speed of LRMs to 175, and then reduced it to 160, they also buffed the AMS to 240m and never reduced them. THEN we got lots of dual and now a triple AMS monsters. They STILL fire through solid objects, ignore scenery and enemies and engage on missiles not locked on to them with range enhancers as well now able to be bought for module slots. And now, C-AMS.

Combine that with the new RaDerp module that causes instaloss for locks if you don't have advance target decay... which is then only reduced and of course the old OP-lephant in the room... ECM... LRMs are still the returned rented mule of the MWO. Now able to do even LESS damage thanks to the elimination of splash.

So this ''LRMs are OP" when all these options are out there to deny their effectiveness... and ONLY them... your qq is sweet sweet nectar to LRM pilots. LRMs are the opportunistic hunter weapon of MWO. Only the foolhardy brave, tactically ignorant, or just plain unlucky succumb to them in 80% of the cases.

And thats the truth... thppppt.

I always enjoy the victim... ahem i mean guy that charges straight forward across open terrain less than a minute in myself.

[Lightfoot]

@OP

They took away my Gauss Rifle with the de-sync. Too bad for you.