192 replies to this topic

[Bhael Fire]

Tesunie, on 23 July 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Small groups (2-4) still have a chance to drop in the "solo" queue.

Nope. There are NO groups in the Solo queue. They made it strictly for solo players.

https://twitter.com/...232709329043456

[Tesunie]

RetroActive, on 23 July 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

No. Groups of 2-4 are no longer dropping in the solo queue AT ALL. They are only dropping in the group queue now.

Bhael Fire, on 23 July 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Nope. There are NO groups in the Solo queue. They made it strictly for solo players.

https://twitter.com/...232709329043456

Last I knew, announced on the site (which may or may not be correct, I shall admit), 2-4 groups could still drop solo. I seemed to have (thought) I was a team of two dropped in a solo match before... But I could have been wrong.

[Bhael Fire]

Tesunie, on 23 July 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

Last I knew, announced on the site (which may or may not be correct, I shall admit), 2-4 groups could still drop solo. I seemed to have (thought) I was a team of two dropped in a solo match before... But I could have been wrong.

Yeah, you were mistaken. There are NO groups in the solo queue. They removed them and have no plans to put them back into the solo queue. They need them for the group queue.

[Xmith]

ArkNemesis, on 22 July 2014 - 02:53 AM, said:

Please PGI, put an option to make group of two using solo queue. It is vital for your game. If you want it to exist, as a cooperative game, you need to help newcomer getting into the game with a friend. Currently, as soon as you are two, you drop with other group. Even when playing the game for some month (and achieving correct scores in PUG), my friend and me are almost always totally stomped by opposite team,a s we can not coordinate as good as them with our team.
Imagine for a newbie. He will just be crushed any game he plays.
It sadden me to see a game I like so much becoming just unplayable if you just want to team up with a friend.

A 2 man is almost like dropping solo in a group queue.

Now more than ever, you have to learn how to play with the rest of you teammates.

The same rules applies.

Stay Together

Lock Targets

Focus Fire

Edited by Xmith, 23 July 2014 - 03:02 PM.

[EgoSlayer]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 July 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

And the reverse of that is, Whats the matter fighting a 2man isn't that hard, whats the matter? If I will PUG against a 2 man why won't others?

I just find it ironic that groups used to respond to PUG complaints in the forums with 'L2P' or 'It's a team game, get on coms and make a team', and now the proposed solution is - 'it's too hard we want to go back to [the advantage we have in] PUGs' instead of their previous solutions.

[Piney II]

The solo queue should stay solo. I do play and enjoy groups sometimes, but I also enjoy playing solo without seeing "The elite e-peen warriors of the Ford Galaxy salute those who are about to die" in chat at spawn.

There seems to be a growing rift between the some of the group players and the solo players. The solo players are labeled "derp warriors", "underhive", "ghetto". Gotta love the elitist preening............

The dead eye killers here can still drop solo to club seals and farm C bills if they choose. They just can't do it in groups.

[Haji1096]

If the choice is between a good experience for solo players vs. the lack of a "casual" experience for group players, the choice should always be for a good experience for solo players. At least when you are in a group you can coordinate with another group easily and take some ownership of the game, as opposed to herding 11 random players.

The learning curve is steeper in the group queue, but it will make you a better player in the long run, because your mistakes will be punished. If you are at any level of play in the group queue outside of the top tier units, you are going to get stomped at some point.

Just ready up and move on to the next match.

Edited by Haji1096, 24 July 2014 - 08:36 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

Piney, on 23 July 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

The dead eye killers here can still drop solo to club seals and farm C bills if they choose. They just can't do it in groups.

Well, actually...when there's a lot of players online, the solo queue has minimal derpage if your Elo is high enough. So, those "dead eye killers" are pretty much fighting each other in the solo queue.

[Voidcrafter]

I really feel your pain bro - I tried putting the same points about 2 weeks back - the result was the same
My point was that when I drop with a fellow newcomer(to the game) we're starting to get into some really terrible games...
That was before the last MM "adjustment".
Either way - I DON'T trust the matchmaker at all, not to mention enough, to leave him arrange the "perfect", "balanced" and "fun" for me.
Nope.
This world just don't work that way
But in the end - when you try to put a reason behind your words - all you'll get would be the rage of the people tired of being stomped from premades, or the people who're actually stomping premades - for various of factors you/I/other people just don't fit in that criteria, which, opposing to the common belief have nothing to do with PERSONAL skill.
Anyways I feel satisfied when I play solo - cause that way the things depend more on me, rather than 2x4 / 1x5 + 1x3/ 1x10 people I don't - know, trust, have faith in, try to convince they're wrong - if you wish in terms of how willing those random solo people are to listen, or how open are they(outside their personal group - since there aint any) toward advices, strategies, etc.
So I am kinda half ok with that.
But still I'm kinda half not

[Davers]

Voidcrafter, on 24 July 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

Either way - I DON'T trust the matchmaker at all, not to mention enough, to leave him arrange the "perfect", "balanced" and "fun" for me.

Anyways I feel satisfied when I play solo

Mission accomplished.

[Vassago Rain]

EgoSlayer, on 23 July 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

I just find it ironic that groups used to respond to PUG complaints in the forums with 'L2P' or 'It's a team game, get on coms and make a team', and now the proposed solution is - 'it's too hard we want to go back to [the advantage we have in] PUGs' instead of their previous solutions.

It's just bads being bad. Remember when PGI made the dedicated 8 manz? Everybody was saying they'd never drop in the ghetto again, and how they hated the pubs.

Well, after a week or two, it turns out they are bad at the game, and don't like getting farmed by people like me every single match, so they went back to the ghetto.

[Kjudoon]

ArkNemesis, on 22 July 2014 - 02:53 AM, said:

Please PGI, put an option to make group of two using solo queue. It is vital for your game. If you want it to exist, as a cooperative game, you need to help newcomer getting into the game with a friend. Currently, as soon as you are two, you drop with other group. Even when playing the game for some month (and achieving correct scores in PUG), my friend and me are almost always totally stomped by opposite team,a s we can not coordinate as good as them with our team.
Imagine for a newbie. He will just be crushed any game he plays.
It sadden me to see a game I like so much becoming just unplayable if you just want to team up with a friend.

Hate to disagree. The solo queue (much to some people's surprise I'd say this) should remain the Solo Queue. All the rambos need their space.

PGI needs to create a LANCE Queue, where opt-in solos and groups of 2-4 can play in peace away from the larger competative groups who are out of control in the COMPANY Queue (currently the 2-10,12 Queue).

Solves all the issues right there. Solo only, Traditional "Lance", and "Company" 5+ Queues.

this will also solve the 'no groups of 11' rule currently in effect. This will also provide more options if short dropping is allowed for groups of 8-11 since groups of 5-7 can be put together to deal with groups of 10+ and be much more balanced... or at least have similar imbalances currently being found because of group aggregate Elo.

Edited by Kjudoon, 24 July 2014 - 10:25 AM.

[Almond Brown]

EgoSlayer, on 23 July 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

To paraphrase what all the group players used to say to PUGs:

So, your two man isn't good enough for the group queue? Make a bigger group, it's not that hard, what's the problem?

Gawd, I do so love the smell of Mulberry Bush in the morning. LOL!

Tesunie, on 23 July 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Small groups (2-4) still have a chance to drop in the "solo" queue. You also should no longer (or rarely) be experiencing the "lots of small groups against a single 12 man" as the MM has been adjusted.

However, I do agree that it's harder when you are grouped now, which does make trying to play the game with a complete new player a little more... challenging.

I have no solution or suggestion on how this problem can be solved. If you let people choose between solo and group when in 2-4 sized groups, you may not have enough to fill in a larger (5-10) sized groups to be able to let them play as well. If you don't, then people teamed up with a new player to show them the ropes may get tossed into the larger and more coordinated groups, which may frustrate them... I don't see any real way to make this work perfectly, no mater what system is created...

Just let "Pairs" into the Training Grounds. Trainee and Trainer together. Then when ready, swim into deeper waters. The pair can always go back to shallow waters to work on the "weak areas".

[Kjudoon]

I like it but that thwarts the monetization of private matches. So... sadly I doubt PGI would go for it.

[Almond Brown]

Bhael Fire, on 24 July 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Well, actually...when there's a lot of players online, the solo queue has minimal derpage if your Elo is high enough. So, those "dead eye killers" are pretty much fighting each other in the solo queue.

And in that case, it is hoped the MM will set up the ELO's such that both sides are fairly even and then it is the best "team play" that wins the Match.

Of course the Losers always assume they got all the Derp and the other team all the best of the ELO.

[Voidcrafter]

Kjudoon, on 24 July 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

Hate to disagree. The solo queue (much to some people's surprise I'd say this) should remain the Solo Queue. All the rambos need their space.

PGI needs to create a LANCE Queue, where opt-in solos and groups of 2-4 can play in peace away from the larger competative groups who are out of control in the COMPANY Queue (currently the 2-10,12 Queue).

Solves all the issues right there. Solo only, Traditional "Lance", and "Company" 5+ Queues.

this will also solve the 'no groups of 11' rule currently in effect. This will also provide more options if short dropping is allowed for groups of 8-11 since groups of 5-7 can be put together to deal with groups of 10+ and be much more balanced... or at least have similar imbalances currently being found because of group aggregate Elo.

Couldn't say it better myself - that solves all the things that really make me upset
Like, for example, dropping with a composition 3/2/2/2/3 against a 10 man premade - which, believe it or not, happens more often to me than I would ever wish it does.

Almond Brown, on 24 July 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Just let "Pairs" into the Training Grounds. Trainee and Trainer together. Then when ready, swim into deeper waters. The pair can always go back to shallow waters to work on the "weak areas".

If you point me out how would that stop a 10 man organized group to stomp uppon the composition I've put a bit above I'll completely agree with you.
Truth is - even if you do the best you can - you still depend on the other 10 people in the team(provided that you dropped with a fellow newcomer to the game as I do).
For me - in the matter of performance it's the same - both in solo and in group queue I'll be able(8/10) to deliver ~500<-->750+ damage, I'll kill few unlucky fellows from the enemy team(or not - if they are REALLY organized as the groups I ordinary drop against are) - and that's that - dead or alive I've delivered my part of the game.

The difference comes here though:
In the solo queue the opposing team most likely would not be able to do with the harm I've done(not to mention that I always aim for the "best" players in the enemy team so I can equal the odds) - again 8/10 - since they're a bit less organized my game ordinary ends with 3<-->7 kills in the solo Q. Quite rare less than that.
Group Queue? Whole other tale - I've, many times, ended up doing ~750 damage with either a kill or a none(cause the guys I end up against really know what they're doing and are retreating).
Even if not so - even if I manage to kill 3 people before they tear me apart - their organized 10 man group CAN and WILL(8/10 again - I love those numbers ) recover, reorganize and make the loss feel quite lighter.
So provided that I haven't shot 1 or 2 unlucky fellow mechwarriors from the other group of two - that leaves a 7 man team against a separated composition of multiple lesser teams.
I don't need to clarify in the common case how this ordinary ends, do I?

So as a conclusion - even though my performance is the same - I am able to win ~14 of 20 games in solo Q, but I lose 18 out of 20 games in group Q.
Hey - I'm teh cool guy - I don't like all this women talk about faults and blames and sheet - but if I was...
Can you guess who's to blame for all this to occur?
Wanna two letter hint?
*creepy wisper*
MM.

So yea - one of the possible solutions is to put any group up to 3 man in the solo Q.
The group Q would be left with 4+4+4, 4+8, 5+7 and 6+6(and 12 if you wish) compositions - a bit tougher and slower to find a match - that's true - but aside of that - even in the worse case scenario it would be waaaaaay better than the games I had the misfortune to experience
Worse case: 4/4/4 vs 8/4 or something like 6/6 vs 8/4.

Anyways - scratch and/or ignore that - I'm not here to promote what I've already tried to suggest in a separate topic some weeks ago - all I'm saying is that I can see why that kind of topics pop out now and then.
Can't you?

[Roland]

Haxburch, on 24 July 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

If i drop with 2 men and there 6+ of one house/clan on the other team. Then i leave the match with my friend and take next mech .
No need to play with a casual 2men team vs nerd die hard freaks .

Maybe you should go play my little pony since you are such a little girl.

[Lefty Lucy]

Voidcrafter, on 24 July 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

A bunch of smart stuff that reminded me...

Void, remember when we were two-manning last week and I told our team, "You all are about to get carried," then you got something ridiculous like 6 kills?

[Kjudoon]

Void, you made me think about it this way.

Allow solos to Opt In to the "Lance Queue" and allow 4 man lances the option to Opt In to the "Company Queue". Solves all the problems right there, stabilizes out the +5 arena too with the Opt In option for the next highest size. Badabing.

Of course, solos would not be able to Opt In to the Company Queue, and nobody could Opt In to a lower size queue.

Brilliant!

Lefty Lucy, on 24 July 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Void, remember when we were two-manning last week and I told our team, "You all are about to get carried," then you got something ridiculous like 6 kills?

A true "Hold m' beer, I got this" moment.

[Lefty Lucy]

Kjudoon, on 24 July 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

A true "Hold m' beer, I got this" moment.

It was more like, "****, what did you just tell them? You'd better hold my beer."

We were Fatlassing it up, and I think I did OK, but he rocked.